ObamaCare…coming soon

[Rt.66]

[quote=CA renter][quote=AN]

What is it about the Austrian health care system that make it FAR superior to ours? Please explain.[/quote]

One example would be my mom’s best friend who had to have hip replacement surgery. In Austria, she got the surgery and had a longer hospital stay than U.S. counterparts (a good thing, no matter what they try to tell us), then was sent to a rehab facility (again, an in-patient facility) that is more like a spa, with special pools and massage therapies, etc. Essentially, they believe in a more holistic approach; and rather than send someone home the same day or day after a major procedure, they actually try to **heal** the patient, and make sure they are able to take care of themselves at home. We do no such thing here.

Another benefit of socialized medicine is that people can move freely between employers and careers. For example, my husband and I would like to start a business, but can’t because we’d lose the health benefits provided by his current employer. Socialized medicine would allow labor to move where it is most effective, and would enable our employers to be more competitive with foreign employers who do not have the burden of insuring their employees and the related “legacy costs.”

One more thing… A for-profit healthcare system is only profitable when people are sick. There is no incentive to **cure** people, only to “treat” them with expensive medicines and procedures. Ideally, from the perspective of a for-profit healthcare provider, the perfect patient is one who is chronically ill and requires medicine and treatments for an entire lifetime.

A socialized system has an incentive to **cure,** because the entire goal of socialized medicine is to make people healthy, irrespective of any other (profit) considerations.

———————

More general statements about their socialized government:

The Austrians pay about the same amount in taxes that we do, and get 12-18 months **paid** maternity leave (combination of govt/employer-paid, with one year full pay and 6 months half pay, IIRC).

They get very effective healthcare which will not bankrupt them.

They also get a pension when they retire.

They do not have the disparate levels of wealth that we have, and, generally-speaking, everyone is taken care of. Certainly nobody can take issue with the German or Austrian work ethic, either. The whole boogeyman of “everyone will be lazy” is nonsense.[/quote]

Good post! Lot’s of wisdom there.

So far 2.4 million people have lost their health benefits during this depression (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html?). Now the tax payers will pick up the tab for their needs if they become ill (after they are finacially ruined and forced into BK). Sounds like a really dumb version of NHC?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

4plex: I want to address your 300lb smoker comment. I’m diabetic (Type II, Adult Onset) and I manage my diabetes with diet and exercise. I don’t take meds like glucophage or insulin and that’s entirely due to being very careful about my diet and making sure that I exercise at least 5x per week (minimum of 45 minutes per session).

However, I know plenty of people that are also diabetic, but make no effort to control their diet and/or don’t exercise. They’re fully aware of the consequences of both, yet have this laissez faire attitude about the disease and it’s effects (blindness, loss of limbs, etc). This attitude amazes me, but it’s no different from people suffering from obesity (a large percentage of this country) and/or smokers. They know the risks and yet continue the behavior(s) and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

I know that this is something of an ethical slippery slope and I wouldn’t deny care to someone that genuinely needs it, but there needs to be some level of personal responsibility for one’s health. It seems that we are truly a society of victims and someone else is always held responsible for our ills. That needs to change and perhaps denial of care/service for those that show no willingness to care for themselves (when they’re perfectly capable of doing so) might be a strong first step.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

4plex: I want to address your 300lb smoker comment. I’m diabetic (Type II, Adult Onset) and I manage my diabetes with diet and exercise. I don’t take meds like glucophage or insulin and that’s entirely due to being very careful about my diet and making sure that I exercise at least 5x per week (minimum of 45 minutes per session).

However, I know plenty of people that are also diabetic, but make no effort to control their diet and/or don’t exercise. They’re fully aware of the consequences of both, yet have this laissez faire attitude about the disease and it’s effects (blindness, loss of limbs, etc). This attitude amazes me, but it’s no different from people suffering from obesity (a large percentage of this country) and/or smokers. They know the risks and yet continue the behavior(s) and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

I know that this is something of an ethical slippery slope and I wouldn’t deny care to someone that genuinely needs it, but there needs to be some level of personal responsibility for one’s health. It seems that we are truly a society of victims and someone else is always held responsible for our ills. That needs to change and perhaps denial of care/service for those that show no willingness to care for themselves (when they’re perfectly capable of doing so) might be a strong first step.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

4plex: I want to address your 300lb smoker comment. I’m diabetic (Type II, Adult Onset) and I manage my diabetes with diet and exercise. I don’t take meds like glucophage or insulin and that’s entirely due to being very careful about my diet and making sure that I exercise at least 5x per week (minimum of 45 minutes per session).

However, I know plenty of people that are also diabetic, but make no effort to control their diet and/or don’t exercise. They’re fully aware of the consequences of both, yet have this laissez faire attitude about the disease and it’s effects (blindness, loss of limbs, etc). This attitude amazes me, but it’s no different from people suffering from obesity (a large percentage of this country) and/or smokers. They know the risks and yet continue the behavior(s) and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

I know that this is something of an ethical slippery slope and I wouldn’t deny care to someone that genuinely needs it, but there needs to be some level of personal responsibility for one’s health. It seems that we are truly a society of victims and someone else is always held responsible for our ills. That needs to change and perhaps denial of care/service for those that show no willingness to care for themselves (when they’re perfectly capable of doing so) might be a strong first step.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

4plex: I want to address your 300lb smoker comment. I’m diabetic (Type II, Adult Onset) and I manage my diabetes with diet and exercise. I don’t take meds like glucophage or insulin and that’s entirely due to being very careful about my diet and making sure that I exercise at least 5x per week (minimum of 45 minutes per session).

However, I know plenty of people that are also diabetic, but make no effort to control their diet and/or don’t exercise. They’re fully aware of the consequences of both, yet have this laissez faire attitude about the disease and it’s effects (blindness, loss of limbs, etc). This attitude amazes me, but it’s no different from people suffering from obesity (a large percentage of this country) and/or smokers. They know the risks and yet continue the behavior(s) and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

I know that this is something of an ethical slippery slope and I wouldn’t deny care to someone that genuinely needs it, but there needs to be some level of personal responsibility for one’s health. It seems that we are truly a society of victims and someone else is always held responsible for our ills. That needs to change and perhaps denial of care/service for those that show no willingness to care for themselves (when they’re perfectly capable of doing so) might be a strong first step.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

4plex: I want to address your 300lb smoker comment. I’m diabetic (Type II, Adult Onset) and I manage my diabetes with diet and exercise. I don’t take meds like glucophage or insulin and that’s entirely due to being very careful about my diet and making sure that I exercise at least 5x per week (minimum of 45 minutes per session).

However, I know plenty of people that are also diabetic, but make no effort to control their diet and/or don’t exercise. They’re fully aware of the consequences of both, yet have this laissez faire attitude about the disease and it’s effects (blindness, loss of limbs, etc). This attitude amazes me, but it’s no different from people suffering from obesity (a large percentage of this country) and/or smokers. They know the risks and yet continue the behavior(s) and expect someone else to pick up the tab.

I know that this is something of an ethical slippery slope and I wouldn’t deny care to someone that genuinely needs it, but there needs to be some level of personal responsibility for one’s health. It seems that we are truly a society of victims and someone else is always held responsible for our ills. That needs to change and perhaps denial of care/service for those that show no willingness to care for themselves (when they’re perfectly capable of doing so) might be a strong first step.

[Rt.66]

Hey TG, another wonderful post!!!

Like reading poetry mated with absolute wisdom!

Of all the blogs I read you are one of the most consistently eloquent posters I see. If you are not employed in something that involves creative writing, you missed your calling. Keep it up 🙂

[Rt.66]

Hey TG, another wonderful post!!!

Like reading poetry mated with absolute wisdom!

Of all the blogs I read you are one of the most consistently eloquent posters I see. If you are not employed in something that involves creative writing, you missed your calling. Keep it up 🙂

[Rt.66]

Hey TG, another wonderful post!!!

Like reading poetry mated with absolute wisdom!

Of all the blogs I read you are one of the most consistently eloquent posters I see. If you are not employed in something that involves creative writing, you missed your calling. Keep it up 🙂

[Rt.66]

Hey TG, another wonderful post!!!

Like reading poetry mated with absolute wisdom!

Of all the blogs I read you are one of the most consistently eloquent posters I see. If you are not employed in something that involves creative writing, you missed your calling. Keep it up 🙂

[Rt.66]

Hey TG, another wonderful post!!!

Like reading poetry mated with absolute wisdom!

Of all the blogs I read you are one of the most consistently eloquent posters I see. If you are not employed in something that involves creative writing, you missed your calling. Keep it up 🙂

[temeculaguy]

Thank you rt.66, that was so nice it’s almost cause for suspicion since it wasn’t that great of a post, but I’ll take it at face value and compliment you on your growth and role on the boards, from our early days of occasionally scuffling, you’ve become one of the posters who’s perspective always interests me.

Aecitia, you know that if you remove the partisanship from this, it has it’s merits, I think even a republican president would entertain the idea of national health care these days. Just think how good it would be for large corporations, the legacy costs of large corporations that provide health care and reitree health care is something that is seriously hurting the bottom line right now and the cost keeps outpacing inflation, at some point you have to look around and see how everyone else does it. Let’s at least see their plan, I wont put my faith blindly in our lawmakers, they have a knack for screwing things up, even the easy things. I have decided it’s not woth worrying about and I am open to the concept of it. I have too much to worry about with Lamar Odom still not signed by the lakers.

[temeculaguy]

Thank you rt.66, that was so nice it’s almost cause for suspicion since it wasn’t that great of a post, but I’ll take it at face value and compliment you on your growth and role on the boards, from our early days of occasionally scuffling, you’ve become one of the posters who’s perspective always interests me.

Aecitia, you know that if you remove the partisanship from this, it has it’s merits, I think even a republican president would entertain the idea of national health care these days. Just think how good it would be for large corporations, the legacy costs of large corporations that provide health care and reitree health care is something that is seriously hurting the bottom line right now and the cost keeps outpacing inflation, at some point you have to look around and see how everyone else does it. Let’s at least see their plan, I wont put my faith blindly in our lawmakers, they have a knack for screwing things up, even the easy things. I have decided it’s not woth worrying about and I am open to the concept of it. I have too much to worry about with Lamar Odom still not signed by the lakers.

[temeculaguy]

Thank you rt.66, that was so nice it’s almost cause for suspicion since it wasn’t that great of a post, but I’ll take it at face value and compliment you on your growth and role on the boards, from our early days of occasionally scuffling, you’ve become one of the posters who’s perspective always interests me.

Aecitia, you know that if you remove the partisanship from this, it has it’s merits, I think even a republican president would entertain the idea of national health care these days. Just think how good it would be for large corporations, the legacy costs of large corporations that provide health care and reitree health care is something that is seriously hurting the bottom line right now and the cost keeps outpacing inflation, at some point you have to look around and see how everyone else does it. Let’s at least see their plan, I wont put my faith blindly in our lawmakers, they have a knack for screwing things up, even the easy things. I have decided it’s not woth worrying about and I am open to the concept of it. I have too much to worry about with Lamar Odom still not signed by the lakers.

[temeculaguy]

Thank you rt.66, that was so nice it’s almost cause for suspicion since it wasn’t that great of a post, but I’ll take it at face value and compliment you on your growth and role on the boards, from our early days of occasionally scuffling, you’ve become one of the posters who’s perspective always interests me.

Aecitia, you know that if you remove the partisanship from this, it has it’s merits, I think even a republican president would entertain the idea of national health care these days. Just think how good it would be for large corporations, the legacy costs of large corporations that provide health care and reitree health care is something that is seriously hurting the bottom line right now and the cost keeps outpacing inflation, at some point you have to look around and see how everyone else does it. Let’s at least see their plan, I wont put my faith blindly in our lawmakers, they have a knack for screwing things up, even the easy things. I have decided it’s not woth worrying about and I am open to the concept of it. I have too much to worry about with Lamar Odom still not signed by the lakers.

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