North park flips… relatistic prices?

[jpinpb]

sdr – isn’t it time for you to concede that CAR and I are battling government intervention and flippers that are keeping prices elevated.

[sdrealtor]

I never said you werent battling government intervention. To the contrary I was the one who predicted it all nearly 3 years ago on this site. Its all there in B&W in the archives. That is what you are battling not flippers. All this flipper talk is misguided anger.

[sdrealtor]

I never said you werent battling government intervention. To the contrary I was the one who predicted it all nearly 3 years ago on this site. Its all there in B&W in the archives. That is what you are battling not flippers. All this flipper talk is misguided anger.

[sdrealtor]

I never said you werent battling government intervention. To the contrary I was the one who predicted it all nearly 3 years ago on this site. Its all there in B&W in the archives. That is what you are battling not flippers. All this flipper talk is misguided anger.

[sdrealtor]

I never said you werent battling government intervention. To the contrary I was the one who predicted it all nearly 3 years ago on this site. Its all there in B&W in the archives. That is what you are battling not flippers. All this flipper talk is misguided anger.

[sdrealtor]

I never said you werent battling government intervention. To the contrary I was the one who predicted it all nearly 3 years ago on this site. Its all there in B&W in the archives. That is what you are battling not flippers. All this flipper talk is misguided anger.

[garysears]

“BTW, many of those home being flipped in East County were likely formerly uninhabitable and would not qualify for loans in their former condition. The flippers are fixing homes and making them marketable. The FHA buyers are getting homes they can afford (remember qualifying is tough) that are in turn key condition and they dont have the money to fix up even cosmetic fixer homes. In low end markets like that, I think the flippers serve a far more important role than in higher end ZIPS.”

I concur with this. I just can’t quite pin down what a reasonable return should be. In my mind I separate “flipping” from “rehabbing” but maybe this is a false distinction. I call the value added in depth repair/remodeling “rehabbing” and the speculative cosmetic fixups “flips”. A rehabber is due a profit margin commensurate with risk but I don’t want to pay off a flipper. The problem is telling the difference.

When I look up the prices flippers paid I just don’t want to buy a house for 270k that was bought for cash for 150k. I assume I could fix the house for much less myself.

Where are the 150k houses on the MLS? They do not exist. The government lending is putting money straight in the pockets of the speculative flippers. They are really a big beneficiary at the expense of the ultimate buyer. I know I focus on insane margins and it is probably true they have come down a lot. Minus the easy money, the speculative flippers would probably disappear. Legitimate rehabbers will always have a market.

[garysears]

“BTW, many of those home being flipped in East County were likely formerly uninhabitable and would not qualify for loans in their former condition. The flippers are fixing homes and making them marketable. The FHA buyers are getting homes they can afford (remember qualifying is tough) that are in turn key condition and they dont have the money to fix up even cosmetic fixer homes. In low end markets like that, I think the flippers serve a far more important role than in higher end ZIPS.”

I concur with this. I just can’t quite pin down what a reasonable return should be. In my mind I separate “flipping” from “rehabbing” but maybe this is a false distinction. I call the value added in depth repair/remodeling “rehabbing” and the speculative cosmetic fixups “flips”. A rehabber is due a profit margin commensurate with risk but I don’t want to pay off a flipper. The problem is telling the difference.

When I look up the prices flippers paid I just don’t want to buy a house for 270k that was bought for cash for 150k. I assume I could fix the house for much less myself.

Where are the 150k houses on the MLS? They do not exist. The government lending is putting money straight in the pockets of the speculative flippers. They are really a big beneficiary at the expense of the ultimate buyer. I know I focus on insane margins and it is probably true they have come down a lot. Minus the easy money, the speculative flippers would probably disappear. Legitimate rehabbers will always have a market.

[garysears]

“BTW, many of those home being flipped in East County were likely formerly uninhabitable and would not qualify for loans in their former condition. The flippers are fixing homes and making them marketable. The FHA buyers are getting homes they can afford (remember qualifying is tough) that are in turn key condition and they dont have the money to fix up even cosmetic fixer homes. In low end markets like that, I think the flippers serve a far more important role than in higher end ZIPS.”

I concur with this. I just can’t quite pin down what a reasonable return should be. In my mind I separate “flipping” from “rehabbing” but maybe this is a false distinction. I call the value added in depth repair/remodeling “rehabbing” and the speculative cosmetic fixups “flips”. A rehabber is due a profit margin commensurate with risk but I don’t want to pay off a flipper. The problem is telling the difference.

When I look up the prices flippers paid I just don’t want to buy a house for 270k that was bought for cash for 150k. I assume I could fix the house for much less myself.

Where are the 150k houses on the MLS? They do not exist. The government lending is putting money straight in the pockets of the speculative flippers. They are really a big beneficiary at the expense of the ultimate buyer. I know I focus on insane margins and it is probably true they have come down a lot. Minus the easy money, the speculative flippers would probably disappear. Legitimate rehabbers will always have a market.

[garysears]

“BTW, many of those home being flipped in East County were likely formerly uninhabitable and would not qualify for loans in their former condition. The flippers are fixing homes and making them marketable. The FHA buyers are getting homes they can afford (remember qualifying is tough) that are in turn key condition and they dont have the money to fix up even cosmetic fixer homes. In low end markets like that, I think the flippers serve a far more important role than in higher end ZIPS.”

I concur with this. I just can’t quite pin down what a reasonable return should be. In my mind I separate “flipping” from “rehabbing” but maybe this is a false distinction. I call the value added in depth repair/remodeling “rehabbing” and the speculative cosmetic fixups “flips”. A rehabber is due a profit margin commensurate with risk but I don’t want to pay off a flipper. The problem is telling the difference.

When I look up the prices flippers paid I just don’t want to buy a house for 270k that was bought for cash for 150k. I assume I could fix the house for much less myself.

Where are the 150k houses on the MLS? They do not exist. The government lending is putting money straight in the pockets of the speculative flippers. They are really a big beneficiary at the expense of the ultimate buyer. I know I focus on insane margins and it is probably true they have come down a lot. Minus the easy money, the speculative flippers would probably disappear. Legitimate rehabbers will always have a market.

[garysears]

“BTW, many of those home being flipped in East County were likely formerly uninhabitable and would not qualify for loans in their former condition. The flippers are fixing homes and making them marketable. The FHA buyers are getting homes they can afford (remember qualifying is tough) that are in turn key condition and they dont have the money to fix up even cosmetic fixer homes. In low end markets like that, I think the flippers serve a far more important role than in higher end ZIPS.”

I concur with this. I just can’t quite pin down what a reasonable return should be. In my mind I separate “flipping” from “rehabbing” but maybe this is a false distinction. I call the value added in depth repair/remodeling “rehabbing” and the speculative cosmetic fixups “flips”. A rehabber is due a profit margin commensurate with risk but I don’t want to pay off a flipper. The problem is telling the difference.

When I look up the prices flippers paid I just don’t want to buy a house for 270k that was bought for cash for 150k. I assume I could fix the house for much less myself.

Where are the 150k houses on the MLS? They do not exist. The government lending is putting money straight in the pockets of the speculative flippers. They are really a big beneficiary at the expense of the ultimate buyer. I know I focus on insane margins and it is probably true they have come down a lot. Minus the easy money, the speculative flippers would probably disappear. Legitimate rehabbers will always have a market.

[SD Realtor]

JP that is what I think has bugged me and does bug me about the entire thread and premise.

Before I forget, 2012 Galveston is pending in Baypark and BAC did a cheapo kitchen and part of the home and left the rest of it. The home went to trsutee sale for 450k in December and none of us touched it at auction. BAC went in and did some work and it is now pending at 596k.

Okay so back to my other thoughts which are the anger you guys have at flippers is kind of a microcosm of the anger in the country today. It is an anger of this guy has what I want so he should not be allowed to do what he wants so I can get what I want. That scares me.

Here is an inherently crappy crappy system, totally propped up by govt and taxpayer money working hand in hand with Wall St. We all agree on that correct? Constraining inventory, holding back properties, renegotiating mortgages to people who never should have been allowed to buy in the first place and who even TODAY cannot afford the home they live in, and basically punishing the rest of us correct? I mean we all do see eye to eye on that and I think we all know and believe this is the REAL cause of why none of us can buy a home at a decent price.

Now you have a small group of people who go out, and whether they buy through trustee sale or on the market, they take the risk and buy a home to flip. They put their money on the line, their time, and they do it. They pay HEFTY taxes on the profit, they are at risk bigtime, and yes they take the homes. They are playing within the system, and they are indeed taking advantage of the market conditions.

Yet the rage directed at them compared to the institutionalized almost criminal system to me seems…. out of whack. I guess I keep coming back to the same thing where you and CAR CAN BUY AT TRUSTEE SALES. Why don’t you? Jim Klinge has a system where he is helping buyers to do this. You guys put so much time and energy into looking for a home, yet have you exhausted all the resources? It seems to me no you have not. You certainly have the energy to point out the details of various properties, even you yourself spend plenty of time tracking them.

Lets not forget alot of these same flippers are exposed and will be in trouble when the market turns. Just a matter of time. Regardless of whether it is a trustee flipper or a resale flipper they will be the first to be exposed and they will be the first to get hammered and have to lower the price. Times are good for them now but nothing is permanent.

So coming full circle I fully understand your and CARs anger at the market conditions.

Yes JP if you want me to admit that the flippers who probably represent less then 5% of total sales in the county are 100% responsible for providing price support. If that is what you honestly believe then fine you can believe it.

[SD Realtor]

JP that is what I think has bugged me and does bug me about the entire thread and premise.

Before I forget, 2012 Galveston is pending in Baypark and BAC did a cheapo kitchen and part of the home and left the rest of it. The home went to trsutee sale for 450k in December and none of us touched it at auction. BAC went in and did some work and it is now pending at 596k.

Okay so back to my other thoughts which are the anger you guys have at flippers is kind of a microcosm of the anger in the country today. It is an anger of this guy has what I want so he should not be allowed to do what he wants so I can get what I want. That scares me.

Here is an inherently crappy crappy system, totally propped up by govt and taxpayer money working hand in hand with Wall St. We all agree on that correct? Constraining inventory, holding back properties, renegotiating mortgages to people who never should have been allowed to buy in the first place and who even TODAY cannot afford the home they live in, and basically punishing the rest of us correct? I mean we all do see eye to eye on that and I think we all know and believe this is the REAL cause of why none of us can buy a home at a decent price.

Now you have a small group of people who go out, and whether they buy through trustee sale or on the market, they take the risk and buy a home to flip. They put their money on the line, their time, and they do it. They pay HEFTY taxes on the profit, they are at risk bigtime, and yes they take the homes. They are playing within the system, and they are indeed taking advantage of the market conditions.

Yet the rage directed at them compared to the institutionalized almost criminal system to me seems…. out of whack. I guess I keep coming back to the same thing where you and CAR CAN BUY AT TRUSTEE SALES. Why don’t you? Jim Klinge has a system where he is helping buyers to do this. You guys put so much time and energy into looking for a home, yet have you exhausted all the resources? It seems to me no you have not. You certainly have the energy to point out the details of various properties, even you yourself spend plenty of time tracking them.

Lets not forget alot of these same flippers are exposed and will be in trouble when the market turns. Just a matter of time. Regardless of whether it is a trustee flipper or a resale flipper they will be the first to be exposed and they will be the first to get hammered and have to lower the price. Times are good for them now but nothing is permanent.

So coming full circle I fully understand your and CARs anger at the market conditions.

Yes JP if you want me to admit that the flippers who probably represent less then 5% of total sales in the county are 100% responsible for providing price support. If that is what you honestly believe then fine you can believe it.

[SD Realtor]

JP that is what I think has bugged me and does bug me about the entire thread and premise.

Before I forget, 2012 Galveston is pending in Baypark and BAC did a cheapo kitchen and part of the home and left the rest of it. The home went to trsutee sale for 450k in December and none of us touched it at auction. BAC went in and did some work and it is now pending at 596k.

Okay so back to my other thoughts which are the anger you guys have at flippers is kind of a microcosm of the anger in the country today. It is an anger of this guy has what I want so he should not be allowed to do what he wants so I can get what I want. That scares me.

Here is an inherently crappy crappy system, totally propped up by govt and taxpayer money working hand in hand with Wall St. We all agree on that correct? Constraining inventory, holding back properties, renegotiating mortgages to people who never should have been allowed to buy in the first place and who even TODAY cannot afford the home they live in, and basically punishing the rest of us correct? I mean we all do see eye to eye on that and I think we all know and believe this is the REAL cause of why none of us can buy a home at a decent price.

Now you have a small group of people who go out, and whether they buy through trustee sale or on the market, they take the risk and buy a home to flip. They put their money on the line, their time, and they do it. They pay HEFTY taxes on the profit, they are at risk bigtime, and yes they take the homes. They are playing within the system, and they are indeed taking advantage of the market conditions.

Yet the rage directed at them compared to the institutionalized almost criminal system to me seems…. out of whack. I guess I keep coming back to the same thing where you and CAR CAN BUY AT TRUSTEE SALES. Why don’t you? Jim Klinge has a system where he is helping buyers to do this. You guys put so much time and energy into looking for a home, yet have you exhausted all the resources? It seems to me no you have not. You certainly have the energy to point out the details of various properties, even you yourself spend plenty of time tracking them.

Lets not forget alot of these same flippers are exposed and will be in trouble when the market turns. Just a matter of time. Regardless of whether it is a trustee flipper or a resale flipper they will be the first to be exposed and they will be the first to get hammered and have to lower the price. Times are good for them now but nothing is permanent.

So coming full circle I fully understand your and CARs anger at the market conditions.

Yes JP if you want me to admit that the flippers who probably represent less then 5% of total sales in the county are 100% responsible for providing price support. If that is what you honestly believe then fine you can believe it.

[SD Realtor]

JP that is what I think has bugged me and does bug me about the entire thread and premise.

Before I forget, 2012 Galveston is pending in Baypark and BAC did a cheapo kitchen and part of the home and left the rest of it. The home went to trsutee sale for 450k in December and none of us touched it at auction. BAC went in and did some work and it is now pending at 596k.

Okay so back to my other thoughts which are the anger you guys have at flippers is kind of a microcosm of the anger in the country today. It is an anger of this guy has what I want so he should not be allowed to do what he wants so I can get what I want. That scares me.

Here is an inherently crappy crappy system, totally propped up by govt and taxpayer money working hand in hand with Wall St. We all agree on that correct? Constraining inventory, holding back properties, renegotiating mortgages to people who never should have been allowed to buy in the first place and who even TODAY cannot afford the home they live in, and basically punishing the rest of us correct? I mean we all do see eye to eye on that and I think we all know and believe this is the REAL cause of why none of us can buy a home at a decent price.

Now you have a small group of people who go out, and whether they buy through trustee sale or on the market, they take the risk and buy a home to flip. They put their money on the line, their time, and they do it. They pay HEFTY taxes on the profit, they are at risk bigtime, and yes they take the homes. They are playing within the system, and they are indeed taking advantage of the market conditions.

Yet the rage directed at them compared to the institutionalized almost criminal system to me seems…. out of whack. I guess I keep coming back to the same thing where you and CAR CAN BUY AT TRUSTEE SALES. Why don’t you? Jim Klinge has a system where he is helping buyers to do this. You guys put so much time and energy into looking for a home, yet have you exhausted all the resources? It seems to me no you have not. You certainly have the energy to point out the details of various properties, even you yourself spend plenty of time tracking them.

Lets not forget alot of these same flippers are exposed and will be in trouble when the market turns. Just a matter of time. Regardless of whether it is a trustee flipper or a resale flipper they will be the first to be exposed and they will be the first to get hammered and have to lower the price. Times are good for them now but nothing is permanent.

So coming full circle I fully understand your and CARs anger at the market conditions.

Yes JP if you want me to admit that the flippers who probably represent less then 5% of total sales in the county are 100% responsible for providing price support. If that is what you honestly believe then fine you can believe it.

[Author]

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