Non-salary CA budget cuts

[no_such_reality]

[quote=Eugene][quote=meadandale]
There is no justification for salaries AS HIGH or higher than the private sector IN CONJUNCTION WITH gold plated retirement benefits.

I mean, come on, retiring at 50 with 100% of your highest salary FOR LIFE?[/quote]

If you believe that, why are you still employed in the private sector?

Senior programmers often make 100-120K in San Diego, to 150K in Silicon Valley. An equivalent state job for a guy with similar experience would pay 60-75K. People ONLY take those public sector jobs because of benefits. Because public sector salaries suck.

[/quote]

That’s because their skills and work ethic is usually snuffed out by the third year. They then just start the 27 year druggery march to not violate a explicit direction or policy until they retire.

[CA renter]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy][quote=Eugene][quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy]
Not L.A. city, I know line men working for LADWP making over 150K a year, same for fire men and police.

[/quote]

SDPD pays its officers 50-75K/year before overtime and benefits. And you have to be there a long time to qualify for the higher end of the range. If officers work overtime, it’s only fair that they would be paid more. You work double time, you get double salary.

https://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol/currjob/control?view=OpenJobListing&job_category_cd=Safety+Srv

Also, that is not directly relevant to the discussion, because fire & police officers are paid from city and county budgets, not from the state budget. CHP officers may be paid from the state budget, but I’m not 100% sure of that either.[/quote]

So show me a software engineer not working 50-60 hours a week and I would say that is a lucky engineer. (if not just a temporary employee if you know what I mean)[/quote]
———————–

FWIW, a municipal firefighter’s base pay is based on a ~56 hour workweek. They work these hours **BEFORE** earning any overtime. Overtime hours are **in addition** to this.

No offense, but why should programmers be paid more than firefighters or cops or linemen? They don’t risk their lives or deal with the dregs of society, nor do they save other people’s lives. Their jobs afford us “wants” but the jobs of the aforementioned municipal workers afford us our “needs.”

Just saying…what YOU value most is not necessarily what others value most. It is subjective; and many people would rather have well-paid (and therefore less corrupt and more capable) law enforcement and safety personnel than well-paid programmers.

[CA renter]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy][quote=Eugene][quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy]
Not L.A. city, I know line men working for LADWP making over 150K a year, same for fire men and police.

[/quote]

SDPD pays its officers 50-75K/year before overtime and benefits. And you have to be there a long time to qualify for the higher end of the range. If officers work overtime, it’s only fair that they would be paid more. You work double time, you get double salary.

https://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol/currjob/control?view=OpenJobListing&job_category_cd=Safety+Srv

Also, that is not directly relevant to the discussion, because fire & police officers are paid from city and county budgets, not from the state budget. CHP officers may be paid from the state budget, but I’m not 100% sure of that either.[/quote]

So show me a software engineer not working 50-60 hours a week and I would say that is a lucky engineer. (if not just a temporary employee if you know what I mean)[/quote]
———————–

FWIW, a municipal firefighter’s base pay is based on a ~56 hour workweek. They work these hours **BEFORE** earning any overtime. Overtime hours are **in addition** to this.

No offense, but why should programmers be paid more than firefighters or cops or linemen? They don’t risk their lives or deal with the dregs of society, nor do they save other people’s lives. Their jobs afford us “wants” but the jobs of the aforementioned municipal workers afford us our “needs.”

Just saying…what YOU value most is not necessarily what others value most. It is subjective; and many people would rather have well-paid (and therefore less corrupt and more capable) law enforcement and safety personnel than well-paid programmers.

[CA renter]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy][quote=Eugene][quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy]
Not L.A. city, I know line men working for LADWP making over 150K a year, same for fire men and police.

[/quote]

SDPD pays its officers 50-75K/year before overtime and benefits. And you have to be there a long time to qualify for the higher end of the range. If officers work overtime, it’s only fair that they would be paid more. You work double time, you get double salary.

https://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol/currjob/control?view=OpenJobListing&job_category_cd=Safety+Srv

Also, that is not directly relevant to the discussion, because fire & police officers are paid from city and county budgets, not from the state budget. CHP officers may be paid from the state budget, but I’m not 100% sure of that either.[/quote]

So show me a software engineer not working 50-60 hours a week and I would say that is a lucky engineer. (if not just a temporary employee if you know what I mean)[/quote]
———————–

FWIW, a municipal firefighter’s base pay is based on a ~56 hour workweek. They work these hours **BEFORE** earning any overtime. Overtime hours are **in addition** to this.

No offense, but why should programmers be paid more than firefighters or cops or linemen? They don’t risk their lives or deal with the dregs of society, nor do they save other people’s lives. Their jobs afford us “wants” but the jobs of the aforementioned municipal workers afford us our “needs.”

Just saying…what YOU value most is not necessarily what others value most. It is subjective; and many people would rather have well-paid (and therefore less corrupt and more capable) law enforcement and safety personnel than well-paid programmers.

[CA renter]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy][quote=Eugene][quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy]
Not L.A. city, I know line men working for LADWP making over 150K a year, same for fire men and police.

[/quote]

SDPD pays its officers 50-75K/year before overtime and benefits. And you have to be there a long time to qualify for the higher end of the range. If officers work overtime, it’s only fair that they would be paid more. You work double time, you get double salary.

https://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol/currjob/control?view=OpenJobListing&job_category_cd=Safety+Srv

Also, that is not directly relevant to the discussion, because fire & police officers are paid from city and county budgets, not from the state budget. CHP officers may be paid from the state budget, but I’m not 100% sure of that either.[/quote]

So show me a software engineer not working 50-60 hours a week and I would say that is a lucky engineer. (if not just a temporary employee if you know what I mean)[/quote]
———————–

FWIW, a municipal firefighter’s base pay is based on a ~56 hour workweek. They work these hours **BEFORE** earning any overtime. Overtime hours are **in addition** to this.

No offense, but why should programmers be paid more than firefighters or cops or linemen? They don’t risk their lives or deal with the dregs of society, nor do they save other people’s lives. Their jobs afford us “wants” but the jobs of the aforementioned municipal workers afford us our “needs.”

Just saying…what YOU value most is not necessarily what others value most. It is subjective; and many people would rather have well-paid (and therefore less corrupt and more capable) law enforcement and safety personnel than well-paid programmers.

[CA renter]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy][quote=Eugene][quote=Nor-LA-SD-guy]
Not L.A. city, I know line men working for LADWP making over 150K a year, same for fire men and police.

[/quote]

SDPD pays its officers 50-75K/year before overtime and benefits. And you have to be there a long time to qualify for the higher end of the range. If officers work overtime, it’s only fair that they would be paid more. You work double time, you get double salary.

https://apps.sandiego.gov/pjaol/currjob/control?view=OpenJobListing&job_category_cd=Safety+Srv

Also, that is not directly relevant to the discussion, because fire & police officers are paid from city and county budgets, not from the state budget. CHP officers may be paid from the state budget, but I’m not 100% sure of that either.[/quote]

So show me a software engineer not working 50-60 hours a week and I would say that is a lucky engineer. (if not just a temporary employee if you know what I mean)[/quote]
———————–

FWIW, a municipal firefighter’s base pay is based on a ~56 hour workweek. They work these hours **BEFORE** earning any overtime. Overtime hours are **in addition** to this.

No offense, but why should programmers be paid more than firefighters or cops or linemen? They don’t risk their lives or deal with the dregs of society, nor do they save other people’s lives. Their jobs afford us “wants” but the jobs of the aforementioned municipal workers afford us our “needs.”

Just saying…what YOU value most is not necessarily what others value most. It is subjective; and many people would rather have well-paid (and therefore less corrupt and more capable) law enforcement and safety personnel than well-paid programmers.

[temeculaguy]

To envy the salary of a state employee is missing the point and the facts. Here is the budget.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf

If you close every court, every prison and get rid of every state employee and their pension, you won’t balance the budget.

70% of the budget goes to three things, k-12 education, higher education and health and human services (ie. welfare, medical for the poor).

At some point you need to to realize that prisons, cops, fireman, judges and everything else that pisses you off isn’t where the real money goes, it goes to poor people, sorry.

If you really want to solve the budget problem, put birth control chemicals in the water supply and only give the anti-dote to people who can prove they have health insurance and a certain income. Require parents of students in both k-12 (40% of the state budget) and higher education pay the full expense of their offspring’s education, no sliding scales, no freebies, pay to play, if you can’t afford them don’t have them. You may not agree but the poorer someone is, the more kids they have, and many get free money, more than the employees of the state when totaled up.

Take every pension away, fire them all and you still wont solve the problem. Socially it hurts to admit it, spiritually it hurts as well, but at some point you have to admit that you need to come up with a different system. A system that does not spend ten times the total lifetime taxes collected on a person’s education or health care. We are fooling oursleves to say that we are better. We give out too much free money, we refuse to let poor people die even if it costs us more in a week than we will collect from them in a lifetime.

I hate being the downer, but the OP mentioned “non salary cuts” because the state salaries is but a fraction of the expenditures, the state employee is anectdotal, it makes you feel good to attack it, but that is not where the fundamental problem lies.

And no I don’t have the answer, it hurts my heart as much as anyone to tell poor people that they can’t have that lifesaving medicine or surgery or that poor people can’t have a bunch of kids and send them all to college for free, feed them for free or that economic refugees can’t come here and fulfill a dream like my ancestors did, but you need to realize that the real money is going there, thank god I don’t have make these decisions now that there isn’t enough money to go around.

[temeculaguy]

To envy the salary of a state employee is missing the point and the facts. Here is the budget.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf

If you close every court, every prison and get rid of every state employee and their pension, you won’t balance the budget.

70% of the budget goes to three things, k-12 education, higher education and health and human services (ie. welfare, medical for the poor).

At some point you need to to realize that prisons, cops, fireman, judges and everything else that pisses you off isn’t where the real money goes, it goes to poor people, sorry.

If you really want to solve the budget problem, put birth control chemicals in the water supply and only give the anti-dote to people who can prove they have health insurance and a certain income. Require parents of students in both k-12 (40% of the state budget) and higher education pay the full expense of their offspring’s education, no sliding scales, no freebies, pay to play, if you can’t afford them don’t have them. You may not agree but the poorer someone is, the more kids they have, and many get free money, more than the employees of the state when totaled up.

Take every pension away, fire them all and you still wont solve the problem. Socially it hurts to admit it, spiritually it hurts as well, but at some point you have to admit that you need to come up with a different system. A system that does not spend ten times the total lifetime taxes collected on a person’s education or health care. We are fooling oursleves to say that we are better. We give out too much free money, we refuse to let poor people die even if it costs us more in a week than we will collect from them in a lifetime.

I hate being the downer, but the OP mentioned “non salary cuts” because the state salaries is but a fraction of the expenditures, the state employee is anectdotal, it makes you feel good to attack it, but that is not where the fundamental problem lies.

And no I don’t have the answer, it hurts my heart as much as anyone to tell poor people that they can’t have that lifesaving medicine or surgery or that poor people can’t have a bunch of kids and send them all to college for free, feed them for free or that economic refugees can’t come here and fulfill a dream like my ancestors did, but you need to realize that the real money is going there, thank god I don’t have make these decisions now that there isn’t enough money to go around.

[temeculaguy]

To envy the salary of a state employee is missing the point and the facts. Here is the budget.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf

If you close every court, every prison and get rid of every state employee and their pension, you won’t balance the budget.

70% of the budget goes to three things, k-12 education, higher education and health and human services (ie. welfare, medical for the poor).

At some point you need to to realize that prisons, cops, fireman, judges and everything else that pisses you off isn’t where the real money goes, it goes to poor people, sorry.

If you really want to solve the budget problem, put birth control chemicals in the water supply and only give the anti-dote to people who can prove they have health insurance and a certain income. Require parents of students in both k-12 (40% of the state budget) and higher education pay the full expense of their offspring’s education, no sliding scales, no freebies, pay to play, if you can’t afford them don’t have them. You may not agree but the poorer someone is, the more kids they have, and many get free money, more than the employees of the state when totaled up.

Take every pension away, fire them all and you still wont solve the problem. Socially it hurts to admit it, spiritually it hurts as well, but at some point you have to admit that you need to come up with a different system. A system that does not spend ten times the total lifetime taxes collected on a person’s education or health care. We are fooling oursleves to say that we are better. We give out too much free money, we refuse to let poor people die even if it costs us more in a week than we will collect from them in a lifetime.

I hate being the downer, but the OP mentioned “non salary cuts” because the state salaries is but a fraction of the expenditures, the state employee is anectdotal, it makes you feel good to attack it, but that is not where the fundamental problem lies.

And no I don’t have the answer, it hurts my heart as much as anyone to tell poor people that they can’t have that lifesaving medicine or surgery or that poor people can’t have a bunch of kids and send them all to college for free, feed them for free or that economic refugees can’t come here and fulfill a dream like my ancestors did, but you need to realize that the real money is going there, thank god I don’t have make these decisions now that there isn’t enough money to go around.

[temeculaguy]

To envy the salary of a state employee is missing the point and the facts. Here is the budget.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf

If you close every court, every prison and get rid of every state employee and their pension, you won’t balance the budget.

70% of the budget goes to three things, k-12 education, higher education and health and human services (ie. welfare, medical for the poor).

At some point you need to to realize that prisons, cops, fireman, judges and everything else that pisses you off isn’t where the real money goes, it goes to poor people, sorry.

If you really want to solve the budget problem, put birth control chemicals in the water supply and only give the anti-dote to people who can prove they have health insurance and a certain income. Require parents of students in both k-12 (40% of the state budget) and higher education pay the full expense of their offspring’s education, no sliding scales, no freebies, pay to play, if you can’t afford them don’t have them. You may not agree but the poorer someone is, the more kids they have, and many get free money, more than the employees of the state when totaled up.

Take every pension away, fire them all and you still wont solve the problem. Socially it hurts to admit it, spiritually it hurts as well, but at some point you have to admit that you need to come up with a different system. A system that does not spend ten times the total lifetime taxes collected on a person’s education or health care. We are fooling oursleves to say that we are better. We give out too much free money, we refuse to let poor people die even if it costs us more in a week than we will collect from them in a lifetime.

I hate being the downer, but the OP mentioned “non salary cuts” because the state salaries is but a fraction of the expenditures, the state employee is anectdotal, it makes you feel good to attack it, but that is not where the fundamental problem lies.

And no I don’t have the answer, it hurts my heart as much as anyone to tell poor people that they can’t have that lifesaving medicine or surgery or that poor people can’t have a bunch of kids and send them all to college for free, feed them for free or that economic refugees can’t come here and fulfill a dream like my ancestors did, but you need to realize that the real money is going there, thank god I don’t have make these decisions now that there isn’t enough money to go around.

[temeculaguy]

To envy the salary of a state employee is missing the point and the facts. Here is the budget.

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/BudgetSummary/SummaryCharts.pdf

If you close every court, every prison and get rid of every state employee and their pension, you won’t balance the budget.

70% of the budget goes to three things, k-12 education, higher education and health and human services (ie. welfare, medical for the poor).

At some point you need to to realize that prisons, cops, fireman, judges and everything else that pisses you off isn’t where the real money goes, it goes to poor people, sorry.

If you really want to solve the budget problem, put birth control chemicals in the water supply and only give the anti-dote to people who can prove they have health insurance and a certain income. Require parents of students in both k-12 (40% of the state budget) and higher education pay the full expense of their offspring’s education, no sliding scales, no freebies, pay to play, if you can’t afford them don’t have them. You may not agree but the poorer someone is, the more kids they have, and many get free money, more than the employees of the state when totaled up.

Take every pension away, fire them all and you still wont solve the problem. Socially it hurts to admit it, spiritually it hurts as well, but at some point you have to admit that you need to come up with a different system. A system that does not spend ten times the total lifetime taxes collected on a person’s education or health care. We are fooling oursleves to say that we are better. We give out too much free money, we refuse to let poor people die even if it costs us more in a week than we will collect from them in a lifetime.

I hate being the downer, but the OP mentioned “non salary cuts” because the state salaries is but a fraction of the expenditures, the state employee is anectdotal, it makes you feel good to attack it, but that is not where the fundamental problem lies.

And no I don’t have the answer, it hurts my heart as much as anyone to tell poor people that they can’t have that lifesaving medicine or surgery or that poor people can’t have a bunch of kids and send them all to college for free, feed them for free or that economic refugees can’t come here and fulfill a dream like my ancestors did, but you need to realize that the real money is going there, thank god I don’t have make these decisions now that there isn’t enough money to go around.

[CA renter]

Well said, TG.

And though it’s not “politically correct,” I (and others here) have noted that the fastest-growing segment is the illegal immigrant community.

————
The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state’s K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state’s public schools.

Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

This is based on 1994 numbers, and I’m sure the numbers are MUCH higher now.

These kids are more likely to get free breakfast and lunch, and low income schools also qualify for more resources like nurses, psychologists, resource teachers, additional administrators, free supplies and materials, etc. The per-pupil costs are generally much more expensive than legal residents.

Schools and prisons and healthcare and welfare…

We can’t fix the problem if nobody is willing to correctly define the problem. That is political suicide…so we will continue down this path until we bankrupt the state, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Well said, TG.

And though it’s not “politically correct,” I (and others here) have noted that the fastest-growing segment is the illegal immigrant community.

————
The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state’s K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state’s public schools.

Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

This is based on 1994 numbers, and I’m sure the numbers are MUCH higher now.

These kids are more likely to get free breakfast and lunch, and low income schools also qualify for more resources like nurses, psychologists, resource teachers, additional administrators, free supplies and materials, etc. The per-pupil costs are generally much more expensive than legal residents.

Schools and prisons and healthcare and welfare…

We can’t fix the problem if nobody is willing to correctly define the problem. That is political suicide…so we will continue down this path until we bankrupt the state, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Well said, TG.

And though it’s not “politically correct,” I (and others here) have noted that the fastest-growing segment is the illegal immigrant community.

————
The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state’s K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state’s public schools.

Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

This is based on 1994 numbers, and I’m sure the numbers are MUCH higher now.

These kids are more likely to get free breakfast and lunch, and low income schools also qualify for more resources like nurses, psychologists, resource teachers, additional administrators, free supplies and materials, etc. The per-pupil costs are generally much more expensive than legal residents.

Schools and prisons and healthcare and welfare…

We can’t fix the problem if nobody is willing to correctly define the problem. That is political suicide…so we will continue down this path until we bankrupt the state, IMHO.

[CA renter]

Well said, TG.

And though it’s not “politically correct,” I (and others here) have noted that the fastest-growing segment is the illegal immigrant community.

————
The study assumes that there are about 1 million children of illegal immigrant parents in California, or about 15 percent of the state’s K-12 school enrolled population. The estimate is based on a 1994 study by the Urban Institute that concluded there were 307,000 illegal immigrant children enrolled in the state’s public schools.

Martin also added an estimate of 597,000 U.S.-born children whose parents are illegal immigrants arriving at a total of 1,022,000 children. Multiplying the number of children by the estimated $7,577 the state spends on average per pupil, the study arrived at the $7.7 billion figure.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/12/06/news/top_stories/19_56_5812_5_04.txt

This is based on 1994 numbers, and I’m sure the numbers are MUCH higher now.

These kids are more likely to get free breakfast and lunch, and low income schools also qualify for more resources like nurses, psychologists, resource teachers, additional administrators, free supplies and materials, etc. The per-pupil costs are generally much more expensive than legal residents.

Schools and prisons and healthcare and welfare…

We can’t fix the problem if nobody is willing to correctly define the problem. That is political suicide…so we will continue down this path until we bankrupt the state, IMHO.

[Author]

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