My HELOC was just yanked.

[EconProf]

Got a letter yesterday from WaMu slashing my home equity line of credit by two-thirds. Claimed it was allowed under our loan terms, as the value of their collateral (my house) had fallen (it has). This is being done in other hard-hit areas of the nation and will be another blow to consumer spending and worsen the fallout from the housing price decline.
In my case, I had been planning on using the HELOC to invest in properties or trust deeds at the bottom of the cycle. Perhaps I should have drained the line of credit in advance, though I don’t know if they could then have demanded it back, giving me my own little liquidity crisis. Anyone else in this situation?

[Pasadena Broker]

It’s become very common. I’ve spoken to several clients that had their HELOC’s reduced by half or declined.

Welcome to a brave new world.

[GoUSC]

They reduced it for a number of reasons. Including a decrease in your credit or that your home value has declined enough that the HELOC would have no equity behind it. This is completely justified.

[Anonymous]

The HELOC reduction is absolutely NOT justified. 10 cents on the dollar, that is what a home is worth???

nonsense. There was a much simpler solution, and that is why this reduction was not justified. Just limit the amount that could be taken out every month.
I have a whole article devoted to it on my blog called “Who will protects us from the banks?”

http://www.credit-card-cap.com
http://www.credit-protector.com
http://www.alessandromachi.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous]

The HELOC reduction is absolutely NOT justified. 10 cents on the dollar, that is what a home is worth???

nonsense. There was a much simpler solution, and that is why this reduction was not justified. Just limit the amount that could be taken out every month.
I have a whole article devoted to it on my blog called “Who will protects us from the banks?”

http://www.credit-card-cap.com
http://www.credit-protector.com
http://www.alessandromachi.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous]

The HELOC reduction is absolutely NOT justified. 10 cents on the dollar, that is what a home is worth???

nonsense. There was a much simpler solution, and that is why this reduction was not justified. Just limit the amount that could be taken out every month.
I have a whole article devoted to it on my blog called “Who will protects us from the banks?”

http://www.credit-card-cap.com
http://www.credit-protector.com
http://www.alessandromachi.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous]

The HELOC reduction is absolutely NOT justified. 10 cents on the dollar, that is what a home is worth???

nonsense. There was a much simpler solution, and that is why this reduction was not justified. Just limit the amount that could be taken out every month.
I have a whole article devoted to it on my blog called “Who will protects us from the banks?”

http://www.credit-card-cap.com
http://www.credit-protector.com
http://www.alessandromachi.blogspot.com/

[Anonymous]

The HELOC reduction is absolutely NOT justified. 10 cents on the dollar, that is what a home is worth???

nonsense. There was a much simpler solution, and that is why this reduction was not justified. Just limit the amount that could be taken out every month.
I have a whole article devoted to it on my blog called “Who will protects us from the banks?”

http://www.credit-card-cap.com
http://www.credit-protector.com
http://www.alessandromachi.blogspot.com/

[GoUSC]

They reduced it for a number of reasons. Including a decrease in your credit or that your home value has declined enough that the HELOC would have no equity behind it. This is completely justified.

[GoUSC]

They reduced it for a number of reasons. Including a decrease in your credit or that your home value has declined enough that the HELOC would have no equity behind it. This is completely justified.

[GoUSC]

They reduced it for a number of reasons. Including a decrease in your credit or that your home value has declined enough that the HELOC would have no equity behind it. This is completely justified.

[GoUSC]

They reduced it for a number of reasons. Including a decrease in your credit or that your home value has declined enough that the HELOC would have no equity behind it. This is completely justified.

[Pasadena Broker]

It’s become very common. I’ve spoken to several clients that had their HELOC’s reduced by half or declined.

Welcome to a brave new world.

[Pasadena Broker]

It’s become very common. I’ve spoken to several clients that had their HELOC’s reduced by half or declined.

Welcome to a brave new world.

[Pasadena Broker]

It’s become very common. I’ve spoken to several clients that had their HELOC’s reduced by half or declined.

Welcome to a brave new world.

[Pasadena Broker]

It’s become very common. I’ve spoken to several clients that had their HELOC’s reduced by half or declined.

Welcome to a brave new world.

[bsrsharma]

BobS,

Can you tell what is/was HELOC limit & value of collateral?

Thanks,
BSR

[bsrsharma]

BobS,

Can you tell what is/was HELOC limit & value of collateral?

Thanks,
BSR

[bsrsharma]

BobS,

Can you tell what is/was HELOC limit & value of collateral?

Thanks,
BSR

[bsrsharma]

BobS,

Can you tell what is/was HELOC limit & value of collateral?

Thanks,
BSR

[bsrsharma]

BobS,

Can you tell what is/was HELOC limit & value of collateral?

Thanks,
BSR

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Good, that’s how it is supposed to work. Welcome to the real world.

Got Cash? Apparently Not.

Here’s a tip: get some….soon.

[EconProf]

BobS
The HELOC was a 90% LTV on a house, rented, with WaMu. It was not unexpected, and not unjustified.
I am still curious, as may be other readers about to face this situation, as to what would happen if I had fully tapped out my HELOC one week ago in anticipation of this.
Anybody know the answer?

[hipmatt]

you aren’t the only one…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html

[hipmatt]

you aren’t the only one…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html

[hipmatt]

you aren’t the only one…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html

[hipmatt]

you aren’t the only one…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html

[hipmatt]

you aren’t the only one…..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html

[EconProf]

BobS
The HELOC was a 90% LTV on a house, rented, with WaMu. It was not unexpected, and not unjustified.
I am still curious, as may be other readers about to face this situation, as to what would happen if I had fully tapped out my HELOC one week ago in anticipation of this.
Anybody know the answer?

[EconProf]

BobS
The HELOC was a 90% LTV on a house, rented, with WaMu. It was not unexpected, and not unjustified.
I am still curious, as may be other readers about to face this situation, as to what would happen if I had fully tapped out my HELOC one week ago in anticipation of this.
Anybody know the answer?

[EconProf]

BobS
The HELOC was a 90% LTV on a house, rented, with WaMu. It was not unexpected, and not unjustified.
I am still curious, as may be other readers about to face this situation, as to what would happen if I had fully tapped out my HELOC one week ago in anticipation of this.
Anybody know the answer?

[EconProf]

BobS
The HELOC was a 90% LTV on a house, rented, with WaMu. It was not unexpected, and not unjustified.
I am still curious, as may be other readers about to face this situation, as to what would happen if I had fully tapped out my HELOC one week ago in anticipation of this.
Anybody know the answer?

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Good, that’s how it is supposed to work. Welcome to the real world.

Got Cash? Apparently Not.

Here’s a tip: get some….soon.

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Good, that’s how it is supposed to work. Welcome to the real world.

Got Cash? Apparently Not.

Here’s a tip: get some….soon.

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Good, that’s how it is supposed to work. Welcome to the real world.

Got Cash? Apparently Not.

Here’s a tip: get some….soon.

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Good, that’s how it is supposed to work. Welcome to the real world.

Got Cash? Apparently Not.

Here’s a tip: get some….soon.

[barnaby33]

HELOCs are callable.

Josh

[barnaby33]

HELOCs are callable.

Josh

[barnaby33]

HELOCs are callable.

Josh

[barnaby33]

HELOCs are callable.

Josh

[barnaby33]

HELOCs are callable.

Josh

[Wickedheart]

One of the local news stations ran a story last week about Countrywide checks written on Helocs bouncing. Many of their customers had complained their credit lines were yanked without notice.

One woman was in the middle of a kitchen remodel when her check to her contractor bounced. She was left with a demolished kitchen, she still owes the contractor for the work done and she has no money to finish the project. I imagine the contractor will put a lien on the house. Kind of a sucky position to be in.

[patientlywaiting]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

But why would you spend money you don’t have. People shouldn’t do kitchen remodels on credit if there’s not cash to back it up. It’s not something that is necessary you she should’ve saved the money for it.

But credit is how most business and household operates.

Nightly Business Report had an interview of the Office Depot CEO (stock is down 60%) who said that small businesses have no money to spend. Small business owners were funding operation using equity withdrawals.

The reductions in Heloc will remove untold billions from the economy.

[eyePod]

“But why would you spend money you don’t have”
Is this the piggington’s kool-aid? All transactions cash, houses cash, or there’s something wrong with you?

[eyePod]

“But why would you spend money you don’t have”
Is this the piggington’s kool-aid? All transactions cash, houses cash, or there’s something wrong with you?

[eyePod]

“But why would you spend money you don’t have”
Is this the piggington’s kool-aid? All transactions cash, houses cash, or there’s something wrong with you?

[eyePod]

“But why would you spend money you don’t have”
Is this the piggington’s kool-aid? All transactions cash, houses cash, or there’s something wrong with you?

[eyePod]

“But why would you spend money you don’t have”
Is this the piggington’s kool-aid? All transactions cash, houses cash, or there’s something wrong with you?

[Peace]

It’s interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to “improve” the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

[patientlywaiting]

Nothing wrong with using leverage to increase purchasing power and standard of living. But everyone should have a cushion.

If that woman has no savings to a point she has might have a mechanics lien put on her house because she has no money to pay the contractor, then she had no business getting a new kitchen. No savings, house is nearly underwater, and putting in a new kitchen?!!

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Here is all you need to know about what “Equity” really means:

Assets – Liabilities = Owner’s Equity

Accounting 101 my friends.

[Deal Hunter]

Sucks, but for the best, man.

True liquidity is not being in debt or leveraged at all, but have cash to wave around at opportunity. If a maxed out HELOC helps you cushion existing liabilities, there’s no real liquidity in that situation.

Time for us all to rethink how we go about spending and investing. Tide will go back out (real estate will come back), but how long can you hold your breath in the meantime?

[Wickedheart]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

You are kidding me, right? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. A 30 year loan to buy a car. Most people drive a car, what, 6 to 7 years tops. That car will be scrap metal a time long before it’s paid for. And that car will cost you more than double the purchase price by stretching the payments over 30 years. A 25k car will be a 55k. No way will that pencil out in tax deductions, that like stepping over dimes and quarters to pick up nickels and pennies. I think if you can’t afford to buy a car with a 4 year loan then you can’t afford it.

[unbiasedobserver]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin’ nuts, write a check and it’s added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

[Coronita]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin' nuts, write a check and it's added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

Actually, for some of the financially responsible, I don't think it was a bad idea. Just that it's been well over abused.

Really, let's say someone "needs" to buy car and is financially responsible. Why not borrow on a heloc and get a lower rate than through traditional financing? Makes sense to me. Someone mentioned about the heloc stretching the terms out 30years …. But I thought you could pay the car off early even with a heloc.

The only issue I see is that a lot of people go in over their head with this as an open atm. Well, some people are idiots, that's their problem. Though, I have to admit, I've never purchased a new car other than paying it off in full the moment I left the dealership- so I can't relate.

It's no different than CC. Some people use that as an open atm, and pay 19-20% apr on their balance, while others use CC because it's convenient, and not only pay off the balance in full each month, but get something back from the CC company.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin' nuts, write a check and it's added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

Actually, for some of the financially responsible, I don't think it was a bad idea. Just that it's been well over abused.

Really, let's say someone "needs" to buy car and is financially responsible. Why not borrow on a heloc and get a lower rate than through traditional financing? Makes sense to me. Someone mentioned about the heloc stretching the terms out 30years …. But I thought you could pay the car off early even with a heloc.

The only issue I see is that a lot of people go in over their head with this as an open atm. Well, some people are idiots, that's their problem. Though, I have to admit, I've never purchased a new car other than paying it off in full the moment I left the dealership- so I can't relate.

It's no different than CC. Some people use that as an open atm, and pay 19-20% apr on their balance, while others use CC because it's convenient, and not only pay off the balance in full each month, but get something back from the CC company.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin' nuts, write a check and it's added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

Actually, for some of the financially responsible, I don't think it was a bad idea. Just that it's been well over abused.

Really, let's say someone "needs" to buy car and is financially responsible. Why not borrow on a heloc and get a lower rate than through traditional financing? Makes sense to me. Someone mentioned about the heloc stretching the terms out 30years …. But I thought you could pay the car off early even with a heloc.

The only issue I see is that a lot of people go in over their head with this as an open atm. Well, some people are idiots, that's their problem. Though, I have to admit, I've never purchased a new car other than paying it off in full the moment I left the dealership- so I can't relate.

It's no different than CC. Some people use that as an open atm, and pay 19-20% apr on their balance, while others use CC because it's convenient, and not only pay off the balance in full each month, but get something back from the CC company.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin' nuts, write a check and it's added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

Actually, for some of the financially responsible, I don't think it was a bad idea. Just that it's been well over abused.

Really, let's say someone "needs" to buy car and is financially responsible. Why not borrow on a heloc and get a lower rate than through traditional financing? Makes sense to me. Someone mentioned about the heloc stretching the terms out 30years …. But I thought you could pay the car off early even with a heloc.

The only issue I see is that a lot of people go in over their head with this as an open atm. Well, some people are idiots, that's their problem. Though, I have to admit, I've never purchased a new car other than paying it off in full the moment I left the dealership- so I can't relate.

It's no different than CC. Some people use that as an open atm, and pay 19-20% apr on their balance, while others use CC because it's convenient, and not only pay off the balance in full each month, but get something back from the CC company.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin' nuts, write a check and it's added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

Actually, for some of the financially responsible, I don't think it was a bad idea. Just that it's been well over abused.

Really, let's say someone "needs" to buy car and is financially responsible. Why not borrow on a heloc and get a lower rate than through traditional financing? Makes sense to me. Someone mentioned about the heloc stretching the terms out 30years …. But I thought you could pay the car off early even with a heloc.

The only issue I see is that a lot of people go in over their head with this as an open atm. Well, some people are idiots, that's their problem. Though, I have to admit, I've never purchased a new car other than paying it off in full the moment I left the dealership- so I can't relate.

It's no different than CC. Some people use that as an open atm, and pay 19-20% apr on their balance, while others use CC because it's convenient, and not only pay off the balance in full each month, but get something back from the CC company.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[unbiasedobserver]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin’ nuts, write a check and it’s added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

[unbiasedobserver]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin’ nuts, write a check and it’s added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

[unbiasedobserver]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin’ nuts, write a check and it’s added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

[unbiasedobserver]

The concept of a HELOC is freakin’ nuts, write a check and it’s added to your loan balance, who the h*ll ever thought up this idea and when? I suspect there are thousands of realtors and mortgage brokers currently living off their HELOCS, I personally know a few of them. This will be devastating news to many.

[Wickedheart]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

You are kidding me, right? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. A 30 year loan to buy a car. Most people drive a car, what, 6 to 7 years tops. That car will be scrap metal a time long before it’s paid for. And that car will cost you more than double the purchase price by stretching the payments over 30 years. A 25k car will be a 55k. No way will that pencil out in tax deductions, that like stepping over dimes and quarters to pick up nickels and pennies. I think if you can’t afford to buy a car with a 4 year loan then you can’t afford it.

[Wickedheart]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

You are kidding me, right? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. A 30 year loan to buy a car. Most people drive a car, what, 6 to 7 years tops. That car will be scrap metal a time long before it’s paid for. And that car will cost you more than double the purchase price by stretching the payments over 30 years. A 25k car will be a 55k. No way will that pencil out in tax deductions, that like stepping over dimes and quarters to pick up nickels and pennies. I think if you can’t afford to buy a car with a 4 year loan then you can’t afford it.

[Wickedheart]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

You are kidding me, right? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. A 30 year loan to buy a car. Most people drive a car, what, 6 to 7 years tops. That car will be scrap metal a time long before it’s paid for. And that car will cost you more than double the purchase price by stretching the payments over 30 years. A 25k car will be a 55k. No way will that pencil out in tax deductions, that like stepping over dimes and quarters to pick up nickels and pennies. I think if you can’t afford to buy a car with a 4 year loan then you can’t afford it.

[Wickedheart]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

You are kidding me, right? That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. A 30 year loan to buy a car. Most people drive a car, what, 6 to 7 years tops. That car will be scrap metal a time long before it’s paid for. And that car will cost you more than double the purchase price by stretching the payments over 30 years. A 25k car will be a 55k. No way will that pencil out in tax deductions, that like stepping over dimes and quarters to pick up nickels and pennies. I think if you can’t afford to buy a car with a 4 year loan then you can’t afford it.

[Deal Hunter]

Sucks, but for the best, man.

True liquidity is not being in debt or leveraged at all, but have cash to wave around at opportunity. If a maxed out HELOC helps you cushion existing liabilities, there’s no real liquidity in that situation.

Time for us all to rethink how we go about spending and investing. Tide will go back out (real estate will come back), but how long can you hold your breath in the meantime?

[Deal Hunter]

Sucks, but for the best, man.

True liquidity is not being in debt or leveraged at all, but have cash to wave around at opportunity. If a maxed out HELOC helps you cushion existing liabilities, there’s no real liquidity in that situation.

Time for us all to rethink how we go about spending and investing. Tide will go back out (real estate will come back), but how long can you hold your breath in the meantime?

[Deal Hunter]

Sucks, but for the best, man.

True liquidity is not being in debt or leveraged at all, but have cash to wave around at opportunity. If a maxed out HELOC helps you cushion existing liabilities, there’s no real liquidity in that situation.

Time for us all to rethink how we go about spending and investing. Tide will go back out (real estate will come back), but how long can you hold your breath in the meantime?

[Deal Hunter]

Sucks, but for the best, man.

True liquidity is not being in debt or leveraged at all, but have cash to wave around at opportunity. If a maxed out HELOC helps you cushion existing liabilities, there’s no real liquidity in that situation.

Time for us all to rethink how we go about spending and investing. Tide will go back out (real estate will come back), but how long can you hold your breath in the meantime?

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Here is all you need to know about what “Equity” really means:

Assets – Liabilities = Owner’s Equity

Accounting 101 my friends.

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Here is all you need to know about what “Equity” really means:

Assets – Liabilities = Owner’s Equity

Accounting 101 my friends.

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Here is all you need to know about what “Equity” really means:

Assets – Liabilities = Owner’s Equity

Accounting 101 my friends.

[JWM in SD]

JWM in SD

Here is all you need to know about what “Equity” really means:

Assets – Liabilities = Owner’s Equity

Accounting 101 my friends.

[patientlywaiting]

Nothing wrong with using leverage to increase purchasing power and standard of living. But everyone should have a cushion.

If that woman has no savings to a point she has might have a mechanics lien put on her house because she has no money to pay the contractor, then she had no business getting a new kitchen. No savings, house is nearly underwater, and putting in a new kitchen?!!

[patientlywaiting]

Nothing wrong with using leverage to increase purchasing power and standard of living. But everyone should have a cushion.

If that woman has no savings to a point she has might have a mechanics lien put on her house because she has no money to pay the contractor, then she had no business getting a new kitchen. No savings, house is nearly underwater, and putting in a new kitchen?!!

[patientlywaiting]

Nothing wrong with using leverage to increase purchasing power and standard of living. But everyone should have a cushion.

If that woman has no savings to a point she has might have a mechanics lien put on her house because she has no money to pay the contractor, then she had no business getting a new kitchen. No savings, house is nearly underwater, and putting in a new kitchen?!!

[patientlywaiting]

Nothing wrong with using leverage to increase purchasing power and standard of living. But everyone should have a cushion.

If that woman has no savings to a point she has might have a mechanics lien put on her house because she has no money to pay the contractor, then she had no business getting a new kitchen. No savings, house is nearly underwater, and putting in a new kitchen?!!

[Coronita]

It's interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to "improve" the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

 

It's generally a BAD idea to "finance" a home remodel of any sort, which is a "WANT". period…Doesn't matter where you're borrowing money from. Generally, a car is a "NEED" (though the brand can make it a "WANT"), unless you live in NYC.

Remodelling, in most cases, is not something that one "HAD" to do prior to moving into a home.

Seems like a lot of people during the past couple of years can't distinguish between "NEEDS" versus "WANTS" and when one should borrow and when one shouldn't.

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[raptorduck]

If I win the debate with my wife on “fixer upper” vs. “turn key” new, we will end up with a fixer upper. My plan for our finalists in that category is a remodel over 5 years. Why, because I will be paying cash for the remodel. The last thing I want to do is put 30% down and then eat away at it in a falling market with a HELOC. We will stage the remodel and use cash for the entire thing.

Mind you, however, I am not above using deferred cash options, such as no interest financing. I did that with the recent remodel of my current home. When the 0% interest term came up for expiration I paid the balance in full and got a 0% interest loan for 12 months paid with cash I put into a CD for that purpose. You pay for current benefit with future money or current money that gets a bit above inflation ROI.

[blackbox]

Thats called a bank/government agency protecting you from yourself.
We certainly don’t want anymore “Gee, if they knew I could not pay it back, why would they lend me the money. Clearly they were setting me up to fail”

Okay, well, consider yourself cutoff!

Got Cash?

geez………….

[blackbox]

Thats called a bank/government agency protecting you from yourself.
We certainly don’t want anymore “Gee, if they knew I could not pay it back, why would they lend me the money. Clearly they were setting me up to fail”

Okay, well, consider yourself cutoff!

Got Cash?

geez………….

[blackbox]

Thats called a bank/government agency protecting you from yourself.
We certainly don’t want anymore “Gee, if they knew I could not pay it back, why would they lend me the money. Clearly they were setting me up to fail”

Okay, well, consider yourself cutoff!

Got Cash?

geez………….

[blackbox]

Thats called a bank/government agency protecting you from yourself.
We certainly don’t want anymore “Gee, if they knew I could not pay it back, why would they lend me the money. Clearly they were setting me up to fail”

Okay, well, consider yourself cutoff!

Got Cash?

geez………….

[blackbox]

Thats called a bank/government agency protecting you from yourself.
We certainly don’t want anymore “Gee, if they knew I could not pay it back, why would they lend me the money. Clearly they were setting me up to fail”

Okay, well, consider yourself cutoff!

Got Cash?

geez………….

[raptorduck]

If I win the debate with my wife on “fixer upper” vs. “turn key” new, we will end up with a fixer upper. My plan for our finalists in that category is a remodel over 5 years. Why, because I will be paying cash for the remodel. The last thing I want to do is put 30% down and then eat away at it in a falling market with a HELOC. We will stage the remodel and use cash for the entire thing.

Mind you, however, I am not above using deferred cash options, such as no interest financing. I did that with the recent remodel of my current home. When the 0% interest term came up for expiration I paid the balance in full and got a 0% interest loan for 12 months paid with cash I put into a CD for that purpose. You pay for current benefit with future money or current money that gets a bit above inflation ROI.

[raptorduck]

If I win the debate with my wife on “fixer upper” vs. “turn key” new, we will end up with a fixer upper. My plan for our finalists in that category is a remodel over 5 years. Why, because I will be paying cash for the remodel. The last thing I want to do is put 30% down and then eat away at it in a falling market with a HELOC. We will stage the remodel and use cash for the entire thing.

Mind you, however, I am not above using deferred cash options, such as no interest financing. I did that with the recent remodel of my current home. When the 0% interest term came up for expiration I paid the balance in full and got a 0% interest loan for 12 months paid with cash I put into a CD for that purpose. You pay for current benefit with future money or current money that gets a bit above inflation ROI.

[raptorduck]

If I win the debate with my wife on “fixer upper” vs. “turn key” new, we will end up with a fixer upper. My plan for our finalists in that category is a remodel over 5 years. Why, because I will be paying cash for the remodel. The last thing I want to do is put 30% down and then eat away at it in a falling market with a HELOC. We will stage the remodel and use cash for the entire thing.

Mind you, however, I am not above using deferred cash options, such as no interest financing. I did that with the recent remodel of my current home. When the 0% interest term came up for expiration I paid the balance in full and got a 0% interest loan for 12 months paid with cash I put into a CD for that purpose. You pay for current benefit with future money or current money that gets a bit above inflation ROI.

[raptorduck]

If I win the debate with my wife on “fixer upper” vs. “turn key” new, we will end up with a fixer upper. My plan for our finalists in that category is a remodel over 5 years. Why, because I will be paying cash for the remodel. The last thing I want to do is put 30% down and then eat away at it in a falling market with a HELOC. We will stage the remodel and use cash for the entire thing.

Mind you, however, I am not above using deferred cash options, such as no interest financing. I did that with the recent remodel of my current home. When the 0% interest term came up for expiration I paid the balance in full and got a 0% interest loan for 12 months paid with cash I put into a CD for that purpose. You pay for current benefit with future money or current money that gets a bit above inflation ROI.

[Coronita]

It's interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to "improve" the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

 

It's generally a BAD idea to "finance" a home remodel of any sort, which is a "WANT". period…Doesn't matter where you're borrowing money from. Generally, a car is a "NEED" (though the brand can make it a "WANT"), unless you live in NYC.

Remodelling, in most cases, is not something that one "HAD" to do prior to moving into a home.

Seems like a lot of people during the past couple of years can't distinguish between "NEEDS" versus "WANTS" and when one should borrow and when one shouldn't.

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

It's interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to "improve" the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

 

It's generally a BAD idea to "finance" a home remodel of any sort, which is a "WANT". period…Doesn't matter where you're borrowing money from. Generally, a car is a "NEED" (though the brand can make it a "WANT"), unless you live in NYC.

Remodelling, in most cases, is not something that one "HAD" to do prior to moving into a home.

Seems like a lot of people during the past couple of years can't distinguish between "NEEDS" versus "WANTS" and when one should borrow and when one shouldn't.

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

It's interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to "improve" the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

 

It's generally a BAD idea to "finance" a home remodel of any sort, which is a "WANT". period…Doesn't matter where you're borrowing money from. Generally, a car is a "NEED" (though the brand can make it a "WANT"), unless you live in NYC.

Remodelling, in most cases, is not something that one "HAD" to do prior to moving into a home.

Seems like a lot of people during the past couple of years can't distinguish between "NEEDS" versus "WANTS" and when one should borrow and when one shouldn't.

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

It's interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to "improve" the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

 

It's generally a BAD idea to "finance" a home remodel of any sort, which is a "WANT". period…Doesn't matter where you're borrowing money from. Generally, a car is a "NEED" (though the brand can make it a "WANT"), unless you live in NYC.

Remodelling, in most cases, is not something that one "HAD" to do prior to moving into a home.

Seems like a lot of people during the past couple of years can't distinguish between "NEEDS" versus "WANTS" and when one should borrow and when one shouldn't.

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Peace]

It’s interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to “improve” the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

[Peace]

It’s interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to “improve” the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

[Peace]

It’s interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to “improve” the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

[Peace]

It’s interesting that you think it is a good idea to use a home equity loan to buy a car but not OK to pay for a kitchen remodel.

My memory may be wrong because I never thought of taking money out of home equity for anything but to “improve” the home –

but am I mistaken that there was a time that Heloc money HAD to be spent on the home? And it was only when consumer debt interest became non-tax-deductable that it suddenly became the thing to use Heloc money for non-home related purchases?

[Peace]

duplicate post

[davelj]

If I were running the banks involved, I’d be slashing HELOC availability too. And probably a hell of a lot more draconianly (ok, I made that word up) than they have so far.

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

But that’s just me.

[vizcaya]

I have freinds that took money out, and since they didn’t sell last year when I told them to, now they are stuck with a first mortage, and Heloc, and a home that is valued less than what they owe. Now they will be unable to take advantage of the crash, and possibly move up. They will be “Stuck” to that home for many years.

My freind’s reason for not selling when I put my home on the Market early last year, was the homes will appreciate to 500k within a few years. Which was the reason the Heloc seemed like a good idea.

[vizcaya]

I have freinds that took money out, and since they didn’t sell last year when I told them to, now they are stuck with a first mortage, and Heloc, and a home that is valued less than what they owe. Now they will be unable to take advantage of the crash, and possibly move up. They will be “Stuck” to that home for many years.

My freind’s reason for not selling when I put my home on the Market early last year, was the homes will appreciate to 500k within a few years. Which was the reason the Heloc seemed like a good idea.

[vizcaya]

I have freinds that took money out, and since they didn’t sell last year when I told them to, now they are stuck with a first mortage, and Heloc, and a home that is valued less than what they owe. Now they will be unable to take advantage of the crash, and possibly move up. They will be “Stuck” to that home for many years.

My freind’s reason for not selling when I put my home on the Market early last year, was the homes will appreciate to 500k within a few years. Which was the reason the Heloc seemed like a good idea.

[vizcaya]

I have freinds that took money out, and since they didn’t sell last year when I told them to, now they are stuck with a first mortage, and Heloc, and a home that is valued less than what they owe. Now they will be unable to take advantage of the crash, and possibly move up. They will be “Stuck” to that home for many years.

My freind’s reason for not selling when I put my home on the Market early last year, was the homes will appreciate to 500k within a few years. Which was the reason the Heloc seemed like a good idea.

[vizcaya]

I have freinds that took money out, and since they didn’t sell last year when I told them to, now they are stuck with a first mortage, and Heloc, and a home that is valued less than what they owe. Now they will be unable to take advantage of the crash, and possibly move up. They will be “Stuck” to that home for many years.

My freind’s reason for not selling when I put my home on the Market early last year, was the homes will appreciate to 500k within a few years. Which was the reason the Heloc seemed like a good idea.

[HereWeGo]

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

If the HELOCs are securitized, do the banks still have a self-interest in cutting the HELOC? Are the HELOCs being cut mostly on the banks’ balance sheets?

[Enorah]

I once referred to a friend’s HELOC as a loan and she retorted, “It’s not a loan! It’s a line of credit.”

yikes

[Enorah]

I once referred to a friend’s HELOC as a loan and she retorted, “It’s not a loan! It’s a line of credit.”

yikes

[Enorah]

I once referred to a friend’s HELOC as a loan and she retorted, “It’s not a loan! It’s a line of credit.”

yikes

[Enorah]

I once referred to a friend’s HELOC as a loan and she retorted, “It’s not a loan! It’s a line of credit.”

yikes

[Enorah]

I once referred to a friend’s HELOC as a loan and she retorted, “It’s not a loan! It’s a line of credit.”

yikes

[HereWeGo]

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

If the HELOCs are securitized, do the banks still have a self-interest in cutting the HELOC? Are the HELOCs being cut mostly on the banks’ balance sheets?

[HereWeGo]

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

If the HELOCs are securitized, do the banks still have a self-interest in cutting the HELOC? Are the HELOCs being cut mostly on the banks’ balance sheets?

[HereWeGo]

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

If the HELOCs are securitized, do the banks still have a self-interest in cutting the HELOC? Are the HELOCs being cut mostly on the banks’ balance sheets?

[HereWeGo]

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

If the HELOCs are securitized, do the banks still have a self-interest in cutting the HELOC? Are the HELOCs being cut mostly on the banks’ balance sheets?

[davelj]

If I were running the banks involved, I’d be slashing HELOC availability too. And probably a hell of a lot more draconianly (ok, I made that word up) than they have so far.

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

But that’s just me.

[davelj]

If I were running the banks involved, I’d be slashing HELOC availability too. And probably a hell of a lot more draconianly (ok, I made that word up) than they have so far.

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

But that’s just me.

[davelj]

If I were running the banks involved, I’d be slashing HELOC availability too. And probably a hell of a lot more draconianly (ok, I made that word up) than they have so far.

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

But that’s just me.

[davelj]

If I were running the banks involved, I’d be slashing HELOC availability too. And probably a hell of a lot more draconianly (ok, I made that word up) than they have so far.

Last time I checked, the “E” in HELOC stood for “equity.” Thus it stands to reason that if the “E” is declining then the “LOC” should decline in many instances as well.

But that’s just me.

[Peace]

duplicate post

[Peace]

duplicate post

[Peace]

duplicate post

[Peace]

duplicate post

[patientlywaiting]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

But why would you spend money you don’t have. People shouldn’t do kitchen remodels on credit if there’s not cash to back it up. It’s not something that is necessary you she should’ve saved the money for it.

But credit is how most business and household operates.

Nightly Business Report had an interview of the Office Depot CEO (stock is down 60%) who said that small businesses have no money to spend. Small business owners were funding operation using equity withdrawals.

The reductions in Heloc will remove untold billions from the economy.

[patientlywaiting]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

But why would you spend money you don’t have. People shouldn’t do kitchen remodels on credit if there’s not cash to back it up. It’s not something that is necessary you she should’ve saved the money for it.

But credit is how most business and household operates.

Nightly Business Report had an interview of the Office Depot CEO (stock is down 60%) who said that small businesses have no money to spend. Small business owners were funding operation using equity withdrawals.

The reductions in Heloc will remove untold billions from the economy.

[patientlywaiting]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

But why would you spend money you don’t have. People shouldn’t do kitchen remodels on credit if there’s not cash to back it up. It’s not something that is necessary you she should’ve saved the money for it.

But credit is how most business and household operates.

Nightly Business Report had an interview of the Office Depot CEO (stock is down 60%) who said that small businesses have no money to spend. Small business owners were funding operation using equity withdrawals.

The reductions in Heloc will remove untold billions from the economy.

[patientlywaiting]

I can see using a Heloc to purchase a car. It’s purchase you would make anyway so you might as well get a tax deduction.

But why would you spend money you don’t have. People shouldn’t do kitchen remodels on credit if there’s not cash to back it up. It’s not something that is necessary you she should’ve saved the money for it.

But credit is how most business and household operates.

Nightly Business Report had an interview of the Office Depot CEO (stock is down 60%) who said that small businesses have no money to spend. Small business owners were funding operation using equity withdrawals.

The reductions in Heloc will remove untold billions from the economy.

[Wickedheart]

One of the local news stations ran a story last week about Countrywide checks written on Helocs bouncing. Many of their customers had complained their credit lines were yanked without notice.

One woman was in the middle of a kitchen remodel when her check to her contractor bounced. She was left with a demolished kitchen, she still owes the contractor for the work done and she has no money to finish the project. I imagine the contractor will put a lien on the house. Kind of a sucky position to be in.

[Wickedheart]

One of the local news stations ran a story last week about Countrywide checks written on Helocs bouncing. Many of their customers had complained their credit lines were yanked without notice.

One woman was in the middle of a kitchen remodel when her check to her contractor bounced. She was left with a demolished kitchen, she still owes the contractor for the work done and she has no money to finish the project. I imagine the contractor will put a lien on the house. Kind of a sucky position to be in.

[Wickedheart]

One of the local news stations ran a story last week about Countrywide checks written on Helocs bouncing. Many of their customers had complained their credit lines were yanked without notice.

One woman was in the middle of a kitchen remodel when her check to her contractor bounced. She was left with a demolished kitchen, she still owes the contractor for the work done and she has no money to finish the project. I imagine the contractor will put a lien on the house. Kind of a sucky position to be in.

[Wickedheart]

One of the local news stations ran a story last week about Countrywide checks written on Helocs bouncing. Many of their customers had complained their credit lines were yanked without notice.

One woman was in the middle of a kitchen remodel when her check to her contractor bounced. She was left with a demolished kitchen, she still owes the contractor for the work done and she has no money to finish the project. I imagine the contractor will put a lien on the house. Kind of a sucky position to be in.

[DWCAP]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money? The economy for all its writedowns and job losses really hasnt been bad. No depression style collapse.
My thought is that alot of the people in the RE related industry have been using this as a safety net. How many people have maxed out the HELOC, borrowed against the 401k, killed whatever little savings they had? All have perfect payment histories and dont show up on any default lists. So they put the house up, but it isnt worth what their loans total too (if it did the HELOC wouldnt be gone) so it sits until they stop putting everything into it OR have nothing left to put into it and lose the house. Maybe a short sale if things are not too bad and they act quickly. Eventually foreclosures keep going up and the calls for a bailout get louder.

The original poster here wanted to use his HELOC to invest in RE. Now that it is gone, he’ll just have to do it like the rest of us poor shlubs. But these people have been using it to subsidize their lifestyle after job loss. We are looking at a recession, with alot more job losses, I just wonder how many of these people are out there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html?ref=patrick.net

BTW, an interesting side note. This couple is using the HELOC to subsidize her lost job. Cept she didnt lose her job, she is now on a contract basis and has only collected 1 paycheck so far this year. Doesnt show up on Unemployment lists, but does the job wrecking her finances just the same.

[Wickedheart]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money?

I guess some folks are just going to have to go back to stealing to support their drug habits.

http://tinyurl.com/2xvg9d

Sales History
01/14/2008: $381,660
10/14/1985: $101,500

I’m guessing the last time it was cleaned was 1985.

[Wickedheart]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money?

I guess some folks are just going to have to go back to stealing to support their drug habits.

http://tinyurl.com/2xvg9d

Sales History
01/14/2008: $381,660
10/14/1985: $101,500

I’m guessing the last time it was cleaned was 1985.

[Wickedheart]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money?

I guess some folks are just going to have to go back to stealing to support their drug habits.

http://tinyurl.com/2xvg9d

Sales History
01/14/2008: $381,660
10/14/1985: $101,500

I’m guessing the last time it was cleaned was 1985.

[Wickedheart]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money?

I guess some folks are just going to have to go back to stealing to support their drug habits.

http://tinyurl.com/2xvg9d

Sales History
01/14/2008: $381,660
10/14/1985: $101,500

I’m guessing the last time it was cleaned was 1985.

[Wickedheart]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money?

I guess some folks are just going to have to go back to stealing to support their drug habits.

http://tinyurl.com/2xvg9d

Sales History
01/14/2008: $381,660
10/14/1985: $101,500

I’m guessing the last time it was cleaned was 1985.

[kewp]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing.

Dude, think of what its going to do to discretionary spending.

The problem is so many people believed the “RE never goes down” mantra that they thought there was little risk in splurging via a HELOC. Worst case is you have to sell the house, right? Think whats going to happen when folks realize they have to pay all that money back.

Or they lose their job.

[contraman]

KEWP,

You mean to tell me that RE prices can actually go down? Wow….that’s not what my REALTOR said last year……haha..

Second, they won’t have to pay anything back…they win both ways……deficiency judgments cost too much, take too much time, and then the bank knows they can BK out of it…..

Trust me on this one….it’s all about leverage and what costs the least amount of money to keep the stock price high for the Sovereign Wealth Fund Investors……

Sincerely, Contraman

[kewp]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Thanks to Bush bankruptcy ain’t what it used to be and there are plenty of debt vultures out there that will buy up the bad debt and enforce collection.

Also, with home values sinking like a rock, the whole idea of a HELOC may become archaic.

[contraman]

Kewp,

I help people with these situations all the time. If the bank chooses a certain type of foreclosure it waives the right to go to court for a deficiency judgment at a later time. No one can buy this and collect on it…..

I know we hate to hear this, but it’s the way it is in the REAL world.

The new BK laws just have a little tougher screening process and that’s about it….other than that it’s just as easy to BK. These things are propagated to the masses that never take the time to look over the REAL changes if any.

It has worked on you and probably many others that are considering BK but remember that “It’s harder now” and therefore don’t pull the trigger. It is effective propaganda in that it makes you think a certain way and then act a certain way…

The govt does this all the time to the masses to deter their behavior. Have you tried reading through the new laws concerning increasing loan limits…hahahahhaahahahhaa..good luck understanding that spider web of confusion…..might want to grab a bottle of your favorite for that read…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[kewp]

Contraman,

I would never get in over my head with debt enough to consider bankruptcy. If that makes me sucker, so be it.

If defaults go high enough, lending standards will adapt to the point that the deadbeats can’t borrow at all.

[contraman]

Kewp,

My apologies for the way I worded that last post to make it seem like you were personally considering BK.

To sum it up:

It’s easy to pass and enact laws (well not really with our clowns in the govt), but difficult and costly to enforce them.

There are patent laws. If you violate my patent I can sue you to try to receive compensation for damages or revenue that was generated using my patent. This is the law.

Say a Fortune 100 company stole my patent, and I am a start up company burning through cash to pay the employees…..

Even though I have the legal right, I will not pursue enforcing it because it doesn’t make FINANCIAL SENSE!

Hopefully, you see how things work here now in banking land also…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[kewp]

Contraman,

I understand your position.

But at some point the chickens have to come home to roost. Banks are going to fail and bonds are going to become illiquid. This is already happening.

Nobody is just going to lend Americans money if enough of them default to make it bad investment. They will just stop. Yes, I admit there are folks that will get an extra spin on the ferris wheel before it runs out of momentum; but its ultimately going to come to a halt.

[EconProf]

BobS
Contraman: Sure, have your free-lance writer put a phone # or e-mail on this site and I’ll contact him or her. Perhaps other readers in my with HELOC’S reduced could chime in too.

[contraman]

Bob, her name is Leslie Geary and her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 203.255.9452.

She would like to speak to anyone who had their HELOC frozen for an article she is doing.

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob, her name is Leslie Geary and her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 203.255.9452.

She would like to speak to anyone who had their HELOC frozen for an article she is doing.

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob, her name is Leslie Geary and her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 203.255.9452.

She would like to speak to anyone who had their HELOC frozen for an article she is doing.

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob, her name is Leslie Geary and her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 203.255.9452.

She would like to speak to anyone who had their HELOC frozen for an article she is doing.

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob, her name is Leslie Geary and her email is [email protected]. Her phone number is 203.255.9452.

She would like to speak to anyone who had their HELOC frozen for an article she is doing.

Sincerely, Contraman

[EconProf]

BobS
Contraman: Sure, have your free-lance writer put a phone # or e-mail on this site and I’ll contact him or her. Perhaps other readers in my with HELOC’S reduced could chime in too.

[EconProf]

BobS
Contraman: Sure, have your free-lance writer put a phone # or e-mail on this site and I’ll contact him or her. Perhaps other readers in my with HELOC’S reduced could chime in too.

[EconProf]

BobS
Contraman: Sure, have your free-lance writer put a phone # or e-mail on this site and I’ll contact him or her. Perhaps other readers in my with HELOC’S reduced could chime in too.

[EconProf]

BobS
Contraman: Sure, have your free-lance writer put a phone # or e-mail on this site and I’ll contact him or her. Perhaps other readers in my with HELOC’S reduced could chime in too.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I understand your position.

But at some point the chickens have to come home to roost. Banks are going to fail and bonds are going to become illiquid. This is already happening.

Nobody is just going to lend Americans money if enough of them default to make it bad investment. They will just stop. Yes, I admit there are folks that will get an extra spin on the ferris wheel before it runs out of momentum; but its ultimately going to come to a halt.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I understand your position.

But at some point the chickens have to come home to roost. Banks are going to fail and bonds are going to become illiquid. This is already happening.

Nobody is just going to lend Americans money if enough of them default to make it bad investment. They will just stop. Yes, I admit there are folks that will get an extra spin on the ferris wheel before it runs out of momentum; but its ultimately going to come to a halt.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I understand your position.

But at some point the chickens have to come home to roost. Banks are going to fail and bonds are going to become illiquid. This is already happening.

Nobody is just going to lend Americans money if enough of them default to make it bad investment. They will just stop. Yes, I admit there are folks that will get an extra spin on the ferris wheel before it runs out of momentum; but its ultimately going to come to a halt.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I understand your position.

But at some point the chickens have to come home to roost. Banks are going to fail and bonds are going to become illiquid. This is already happening.

Nobody is just going to lend Americans money if enough of them default to make it bad investment. They will just stop. Yes, I admit there are folks that will get an extra spin on the ferris wheel before it runs out of momentum; but its ultimately going to come to a halt.

[contraman]

Kewp,

My apologies for the way I worded that last post to make it seem like you were personally considering BK.

To sum it up:

It’s easy to pass and enact laws (well not really with our clowns in the govt), but difficult and costly to enforce them.

There are patent laws. If you violate my patent I can sue you to try to receive compensation for damages or revenue that was generated using my patent. This is the law.

Say a Fortune 100 company stole my patent, and I am a start up company burning through cash to pay the employees…..

Even though I have the legal right, I will not pursue enforcing it because it doesn’t make FINANCIAL SENSE!

Hopefully, you see how things work here now in banking land also…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Kewp,

My apologies for the way I worded that last post to make it seem like you were personally considering BK.

To sum it up:

It’s easy to pass and enact laws (well not really with our clowns in the govt), but difficult and costly to enforce them.

There are patent laws. If you violate my patent I can sue you to try to receive compensation for damages or revenue that was generated using my patent. This is the law.

Say a Fortune 100 company stole my patent, and I am a start up company burning through cash to pay the employees…..

Even though I have the legal right, I will not pursue enforcing it because it doesn’t make FINANCIAL SENSE!

Hopefully, you see how things work here now in banking land also…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Kewp,

My apologies for the way I worded that last post to make it seem like you were personally considering BK.

To sum it up:

It’s easy to pass and enact laws (well not really with our clowns in the govt), but difficult and costly to enforce them.

There are patent laws. If you violate my patent I can sue you to try to receive compensation for damages or revenue that was generated using my patent. This is the law.

Say a Fortune 100 company stole my patent, and I am a start up company burning through cash to pay the employees…..

Even though I have the legal right, I will not pursue enforcing it because it doesn’t make FINANCIAL SENSE!

Hopefully, you see how things work here now in banking land also…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Kewp,

My apologies for the way I worded that last post to make it seem like you were personally considering BK.

To sum it up:

It’s easy to pass and enact laws (well not really with our clowns in the govt), but difficult and costly to enforce them.

There are patent laws. If you violate my patent I can sue you to try to receive compensation for damages or revenue that was generated using my patent. This is the law.

Say a Fortune 100 company stole my patent, and I am a start up company burning through cash to pay the employees…..

Even though I have the legal right, I will not pursue enforcing it because it doesn’t make FINANCIAL SENSE!

Hopefully, you see how things work here now in banking land also…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[kewp]

Contraman,

I would never get in over my head with debt enough to consider bankruptcy. If that makes me sucker, so be it.

If defaults go high enough, lending standards will adapt to the point that the deadbeats can’t borrow at all.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I would never get in over my head with debt enough to consider bankruptcy. If that makes me sucker, so be it.

If defaults go high enough, lending standards will adapt to the point that the deadbeats can’t borrow at all.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I would never get in over my head with debt enough to consider bankruptcy. If that makes me sucker, so be it.

If defaults go high enough, lending standards will adapt to the point that the deadbeats can’t borrow at all.

[kewp]

Contraman,

I would never get in over my head with debt enough to consider bankruptcy. If that makes me sucker, so be it.

If defaults go high enough, lending standards will adapt to the point that the deadbeats can’t borrow at all.

[contraman]

Kewp,

I help people with these situations all the time. If the bank chooses a certain type of foreclosure it waives the right to go to court for a deficiency judgment at a later time. No one can buy this and collect on it…..

I know we hate to hear this, but it’s the way it is in the REAL world.

The new BK laws just have a little tougher screening process and that’s about it….other than that it’s just as easy to BK. These things are propagated to the masses that never take the time to look over the REAL changes if any.

It has worked on you and probably many others that are considering BK but remember that “It’s harder now” and therefore don’t pull the trigger. It is effective propaganda in that it makes you think a certain way and then act a certain way…

The govt does this all the time to the masses to deter their behavior. Have you tried reading through the new laws concerning increasing loan limits…hahahahhaahahahhaa..good luck understanding that spider web of confusion…..might want to grab a bottle of your favorite for that read…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Kewp,

I help people with these situations all the time. If the bank chooses a certain type of foreclosure it waives the right to go to court for a deficiency judgment at a later time. No one can buy this and collect on it…..

I know we hate to hear this, but it’s the way it is in the REAL world.

The new BK laws just have a little tougher screening process and that’s about it….other than that it’s just as easy to BK. These things are propagated to the masses that never take the time to look over the REAL changes if any.

It has worked on you and probably many others that are considering BK but remember that “It’s harder now” and therefore don’t pull the trigger. It is effective propaganda in that it makes you think a certain way and then act a certain way…

The govt does this all the time to the masses to deter their behavior. Have you tried reading through the new laws concerning increasing loan limits…hahahahhaahahahhaa..good luck understanding that spider web of confusion…..might want to grab a bottle of your favorite for that read…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Kewp,

I help people with these situations all the time. If the bank chooses a certain type of foreclosure it waives the right to go to court for a deficiency judgment at a later time. No one can buy this and collect on it…..

I know we hate to hear this, but it’s the way it is in the REAL world.

The new BK laws just have a little tougher screening process and that’s about it….other than that it’s just as easy to BK. These things are propagated to the masses that never take the time to look over the REAL changes if any.

It has worked on you and probably many others that are considering BK but remember that “It’s harder now” and therefore don’t pull the trigger. It is effective propaganda in that it makes you think a certain way and then act a certain way…

The govt does this all the time to the masses to deter their behavior. Have you tried reading through the new laws concerning increasing loan limits…hahahahhaahahahhaa..good luck understanding that spider web of confusion…..might want to grab a bottle of your favorite for that read…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Kewp,

I help people with these situations all the time. If the bank chooses a certain type of foreclosure it waives the right to go to court for a deficiency judgment at a later time. No one can buy this and collect on it…..

I know we hate to hear this, but it’s the way it is in the REAL world.

The new BK laws just have a little tougher screening process and that’s about it….other than that it’s just as easy to BK. These things are propagated to the masses that never take the time to look over the REAL changes if any.

It has worked on you and probably many others that are considering BK but remember that “It’s harder now” and therefore don’t pull the trigger. It is effective propaganda in that it makes you think a certain way and then act a certain way…

The govt does this all the time to the masses to deter their behavior. Have you tried reading through the new laws concerning increasing loan limits…hahahahhaahahahhaa..good luck understanding that spider web of confusion…..might want to grab a bottle of your favorite for that read…..

Sincerely, Contraman

[kewp]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Thanks to Bush bankruptcy ain’t what it used to be and there are plenty of debt vultures out there that will buy up the bad debt and enforce collection.

Also, with home values sinking like a rock, the whole idea of a HELOC may become archaic.

[kewp]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Thanks to Bush bankruptcy ain’t what it used to be and there are plenty of debt vultures out there that will buy up the bad debt and enforce collection.

Also, with home values sinking like a rock, the whole idea of a HELOC may become archaic.

[kewp]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Thanks to Bush bankruptcy ain’t what it used to be and there are plenty of debt vultures out there that will buy up the bad debt and enforce collection.

Also, with home values sinking like a rock, the whole idea of a HELOC may become archaic.

[kewp]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Thanks to Bush bankruptcy ain’t what it used to be and there are plenty of debt vultures out there that will buy up the bad debt and enforce collection.

Also, with home values sinking like a rock, the whole idea of a HELOC may become archaic.

[contraman]

KEWP,

You mean to tell me that RE prices can actually go down? Wow….that’s not what my REALTOR said last year……haha..

Second, they won’t have to pay anything back…they win both ways……deficiency judgments cost too much, take too much time, and then the bank knows they can BK out of it…..

Trust me on this one….it’s all about leverage and what costs the least amount of money to keep the stock price high for the Sovereign Wealth Fund Investors……

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

KEWP,

You mean to tell me that RE prices can actually go down? Wow….that’s not what my REALTOR said last year……haha..

Second, they won’t have to pay anything back…they win both ways……deficiency judgments cost too much, take too much time, and then the bank knows they can BK out of it…..

Trust me on this one….it’s all about leverage and what costs the least amount of money to keep the stock price high for the Sovereign Wealth Fund Investors……

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

KEWP,

You mean to tell me that RE prices can actually go down? Wow….that’s not what my REALTOR said last year……haha..

Second, they won’t have to pay anything back…they win both ways……deficiency judgments cost too much, take too much time, and then the bank knows they can BK out of it…..

Trust me on this one….it’s all about leverage and what costs the least amount of money to keep the stock price high for the Sovereign Wealth Fund Investors……

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

KEWP,

You mean to tell me that RE prices can actually go down? Wow….that’s not what my REALTOR said last year……haha..

Second, they won’t have to pay anything back…they win both ways……deficiency judgments cost too much, take too much time, and then the bank knows they can BK out of it…..

Trust me on this one….it’s all about leverage and what costs the least amount of money to keep the stock price high for the Sovereign Wealth Fund Investors……

Sincerely, Contraman

[kewp]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing.

Dude, think of what its going to do to discretionary spending.

The problem is so many people believed the “RE never goes down” mantra that they thought there was little risk in splurging via a HELOC. Worst case is you have to sell the house, right? Think whats going to happen when folks realize they have to pay all that money back.

Or they lose their job.

[kewp]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing.

Dude, think of what its going to do to discretionary spending.

The problem is so many people believed the “RE never goes down” mantra that they thought there was little risk in splurging via a HELOC. Worst case is you have to sell the house, right? Think whats going to happen when folks realize they have to pay all that money back.

Or they lose their job.

[kewp]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing.

Dude, think of what its going to do to discretionary spending.

The problem is so many people believed the “RE never goes down” mantra that they thought there was little risk in splurging via a HELOC. Worst case is you have to sell the house, right? Think whats going to happen when folks realize they have to pay all that money back.

Or they lose their job.

[kewp]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing.

Dude, think of what its going to do to discretionary spending.

The problem is so many people believed the “RE never goes down” mantra that they thought there was little risk in splurging via a HELOC. Worst case is you have to sell the house, right? Think whats going to happen when folks realize they have to pay all that money back.

Or they lose their job.

[DWCAP]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money? The economy for all its writedowns and job losses really hasnt been bad. No depression style collapse.
My thought is that alot of the people in the RE related industry have been using this as a safety net. How many people have maxed out the HELOC, borrowed against the 401k, killed whatever little savings they had? All have perfect payment histories and dont show up on any default lists. So they put the house up, but it isnt worth what their loans total too (if it did the HELOC wouldnt be gone) so it sits until they stop putting everything into it OR have nothing left to put into it and lose the house. Maybe a short sale if things are not too bad and they act quickly. Eventually foreclosures keep going up and the calls for a bailout get louder.

The original poster here wanted to use his HELOC to invest in RE. Now that it is gone, he’ll just have to do it like the rest of us poor shlubs. But these people have been using it to subsidize their lifestyle after job loss. We are looking at a recession, with alot more job losses, I just wonder how many of these people are out there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html?ref=patrick.net

BTW, an interesting side note. This couple is using the HELOC to subsidize her lost job. Cept she didnt lose her job, she is now on a contract basis and has only collected 1 paycheck so far this year. Doesnt show up on Unemployment lists, but does the job wrecking her finances just the same.

[DWCAP]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money? The economy for all its writedowns and job losses really hasnt been bad. No depression style collapse.
My thought is that alot of the people in the RE related industry have been using this as a safety net. How many people have maxed out the HELOC, borrowed against the 401k, killed whatever little savings they had? All have perfect payment histories and dont show up on any default lists. So they put the house up, but it isnt worth what their loans total too (if it did the HELOC wouldnt be gone) so it sits until they stop putting everything into it OR have nothing left to put into it and lose the house. Maybe a short sale if things are not too bad and they act quickly. Eventually foreclosures keep going up and the calls for a bailout get louder.

The original poster here wanted to use his HELOC to invest in RE. Now that it is gone, he’ll just have to do it like the rest of us poor shlubs. But these people have been using it to subsidize their lifestyle after job loss. We are looking at a recession, with alot more job losses, I just wonder how many of these people are out there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html?ref=patrick.net

BTW, an interesting side note. This couple is using the HELOC to subsidize her lost job. Cept she didnt lose her job, she is now on a contract basis and has only collected 1 paycheck so far this year. Doesnt show up on Unemployment lists, but does the job wrecking her finances just the same.

[DWCAP]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money? The economy for all its writedowns and job losses really hasnt been bad. No depression style collapse.
My thought is that alot of the people in the RE related industry have been using this as a safety net. How many people have maxed out the HELOC, borrowed against the 401k, killed whatever little savings they had? All have perfect payment histories and dont show up on any default lists. So they put the house up, but it isnt worth what their loans total too (if it did the HELOC wouldnt be gone) so it sits until they stop putting everything into it OR have nothing left to put into it and lose the house. Maybe a short sale if things are not too bad and they act quickly. Eventually foreclosures keep going up and the calls for a bailout get louder.

The original poster here wanted to use his HELOC to invest in RE. Now that it is gone, he’ll just have to do it like the rest of us poor shlubs. But these people have been using it to subsidize their lifestyle after job loss. We are looking at a recession, with alot more job losses, I just wonder how many of these people are out there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html?ref=patrick.net

BTW, an interesting side note. This couple is using the HELOC to subsidize her lost job. Cept she didnt lose her job, she is now on a contract basis and has only collected 1 paycheck so far this year. Doesnt show up on Unemployment lists, but does the job wrecking her finances just the same.

[DWCAP]

I just gotta wonder what all this HELOC reduction/freezing is gonna do to housing. How many people had been subsidizing themselves with this kinda money? The economy for all its writedowns and job losses really hasnt been bad. No depression style collapse.
My thought is that alot of the people in the RE related industry have been using this as a safety net. How many people have maxed out the HELOC, borrowed against the 401k, killed whatever little savings they had? All have perfect payment histories and dont show up on any default lists. So they put the house up, but it isnt worth what their loans total too (if it did the HELOC wouldnt be gone) so it sits until they stop putting everything into it OR have nothing left to put into it and lose the house. Maybe a short sale if things are not too bad and they act quickly. Eventually foreclosures keep going up and the calls for a bailout get louder.

The original poster here wanted to use his HELOC to invest in RE. Now that it is gone, he’ll just have to do it like the rest of us poor shlubs. But these people have been using it to subsidize their lifestyle after job loss. We are looking at a recession, with alot more job losses, I just wonder how many of these people are out there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/22/AR2008022202987.html?ref=patrick.net

BTW, an interesting side note. This couple is using the HELOC to subsidize her lost job. Cept she didnt lose her job, she is now on a contract basis and has only collected 1 paycheck so far this year. Doesnt show up on Unemployment lists, but does the job wrecking her finances just the same.

[Coronita]

Hey, the good news was that in order to finance my digital camera purchase, Schwab was still willing to give me a Heloc 🙂

 This sort of sucks. I was going to open a heloc to be an emergency fund to back another emergency fund. I guess, I'll just have 1 tier of emergency fund now.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Hey, the good news was that in order to finance my digital camera purchase, Schwab was still willing to give me a Heloc 🙂

 This sort of sucks. I was going to open a heloc to be an emergency fund to back another emergency fund. I guess, I'll just have 1 tier of emergency fund now.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Hey, the good news was that in order to finance my digital camera purchase, Schwab was still willing to give me a Heloc 🙂

 This sort of sucks. I was going to open a heloc to be an emergency fund to back another emergency fund. I guess, I'll just have 1 tier of emergency fund now.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Hey, the good news was that in order to finance my digital camera purchase, Schwab was still willing to give me a Heloc 🙂

 This sort of sucks. I was going to open a heloc to be an emergency fund to back another emergency fund. I guess, I'll just have 1 tier of emergency fund now.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Hey, the good news was that in order to finance my digital camera purchase, Schwab was still willing to give me a Heloc 🙂

 This sort of sucks. I was going to open a heloc to be an emergency fund to back another emergency fund. I guess, I'll just have 1 tier of emergency fund now.

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[contraman]

Bob,

I had a well known freelance writer contact me today to discuss HELOC freezes for an article she is working on……..
(I am a mortgage broker). She is looking for people like yourself who have been the recipient of this action by the banks.

Would you be willing to speak with her about your experience anonymously?

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob,

I had a well known freelance writer contact me today to discuss HELOC freezes for an article she is working on……..
(I am a mortgage broker). She is looking for people like yourself who have been the recipient of this action by the banks.

Would you be willing to speak with her about your experience anonymously?

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob,

I had a well known freelance writer contact me today to discuss HELOC freezes for an article she is working on……..
(I am a mortgage broker). She is looking for people like yourself who have been the recipient of this action by the banks.

Would you be willing to speak with her about your experience anonymously?

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob,

I had a well known freelance writer contact me today to discuss HELOC freezes for an article she is working on……..
(I am a mortgage broker). She is looking for people like yourself who have been the recipient of this action by the banks.

Would you be willing to speak with her about your experience anonymously?

Sincerely, Contraman

[contraman]

Bob,

I had a well known freelance writer contact me today to discuss HELOC freezes for an article she is working on……..
(I am a mortgage broker). She is looking for people like yourself who have been the recipient of this action by the banks.

Would you be willing to speak with her about your experience anonymously?

Sincerely, Contraman

[Anonymous]

More than 100k have had this happen to them. Some useful info on http://www.helocbasics.com

[Anonymous]

More than 100k have had this happen to them. Some useful info on http://www.helocbasics.com

[Anonymous]

More than 100k have had this happen to them. Some useful info on http://www.helocbasics.com

[Anonymous]

More than 100k have had this happen to them. Some useful info on http://www.helocbasics.com

[Anonymous]

More than 100k have had this happen to them. Some useful info on http://www.helocbasics.com

[Author]

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