August 9, 2006 at 1:42 PM #31456equalizerParticipant
you should direct your anger at the powerful people [Businesses] who are behind the airport issue and wasting more of our money. Mr. NIMBY will stop this anyway.
The infrastructure in this city is woefully inadequate, better in cities with 1/4 the population. But hey, lets subsidize millionaires with new ballparks and let Ecoli get in your water supply.August 9, 2006 at 1:56 PM #31458novice1027Participant
Clearly relocating to Pendelton is not an option.
The have to get permission from the Enviromentalist every time they want to dig a new fox hole, so you can forget any other kind of major developement on that site.
If a bird gets killed during a training excercise, they have to notify everyone and their brother.
Besides we in North County don’t want that noise!!August 9, 2006 at 2:04 PM #31459MHParticipant
Ah Jeez… now I had to join just to reply.
Okay, what? The Corps needs to move?… the same aircraft that fairly recently (late 90’s) relocated from El Toro and Tustin need to move again? Guess that’s no burden on the taxpayer, right – we just pick up our stuff one afternoon and fly somewhere else? And, to where?
Just ’cause it suits the over-growth in SD county? By the way, ask your friends in the OC how they’re enjoying their new airport at El Toro… the one that was supposed to replace John Wayne when the 3rd MAW relocated less than 10 years ago.
Joint use at Miramar… First, nice that SD wants to state their opinion. Miramar is Federal Gov’t property so its simply not up to you. (Not trying to be confrontational, simply pointing out that a referendum is meaningless). And, just ’cause “you don’t see a problem with it” hardly suffices. Know much about pattern altitudes and airspeeds? Know much about the night carrier pattern? Single piloted aircraft minimums? Separation minimums for large passenger ACs? VFR vice IFR approach proceedures and divert requirements?
Or, move them all to Pendleton? Know the costs associated at CPen to build a new runway and the required infrastructure? Know much about the environmental restrictions on where you can build it? How about flood considerations? Weather and approach challenges? Training requirements for novice pilots in the 3 fleet replacement squadrons at CPen and Miramar?
Terribly sorry if the airport Congress chose for us – and that the DoD has owned since long before any of you owned homes in SD – is no longer convenient for you.
How about just building the new airport on Torrey Pines instead?August 9, 2006 at 2:05 PM #31460blahblahblahParticipant
This was supposed to be a reply to something but it’s not showing up in the right place so out it goes…August 9, 2006 at 2:31 PM #31463
Do you really think that is how this is going to play out. The government telling San Diego to go pound sand and that will be the end of it? I’m in favor of that result and then they can build the airport in the desert for all I care.
More likely IMO is that politics will come into play and a number of options will be on the table including ones we have discussed and you have slammed. I know nothing about the process involved though and have no idea who or what would be able to pressure the military to accept a joint use airport at Miramar (most likely outcome IMO).August 9, 2006 at 2:52 PM #31467PerryChaseParticipant
JES, I don’t think that enlisting makes someone a hero by default. It’s a job like anything else. Military personel don’t have to join. Military is just just the best job for the best pay for those who serve.
I believe Milton Friedman talked about outsourcing the military. We could hire foreigners with masters degrees to serve as enlisted men. We would save on training and we could also use the military to do more as we would not be as politically constrained. The servicemen would be thankful for the work and taxpayers would save money. The Romans were quite successful at it.
How about free-market for the military?August 9, 2006 at 3:34 PM #31471
I hold military personnel, firefighters, police officers etc. in higher esteem, than, for example, most lawyers or accountants. Nothing against those professions, but volunteering to put your life on the line for your job and dedicating yourself to something larger than yourself counts extra for me.
And one other reason that you should as well is because most don’t do it for the pay. I don’t know a single Marine who joined because of pay, or even for the college money. They join out of love for this country and a desire to serve. And in battle, they fight because of that as well and that’s why your idea of oursourcing the force will never work.
One guy I know went to Harvard and joined. Another had a undergrad degree from Harvard and law degree from Stanford. Do you think they joined because it was the ‘best job for the best pay”? You can make more working at Wal Mart than you can as a private in the Marines.August 9, 2006 at 4:05 PM #31477CarlsbadlivingParticipant
I actually know alot of guys that joined out of high school because there was nothing else to do. They weren’t going to go to college and didn’t want to work for pennies. It’s not that they joined for the pay, but it gave them some stability and a direction in life.
Regardless, I don’t think any of us are disrespecting the military by pushing for a joint use airport. I just see it as a viable option.August 9, 2006 at 8:30 PM #31503powaysellerParticipant
A recent KPBS discussion on this issue, mentioned that joint military/civilian airports exist in some other cities. I assume it is viable, because the Airport Commission made a short list of viable sites. The only obstacle to the Miramar site is the government’s insistence that they don’t want to be bothered with it.
But why does San Diego need a bigger airport? With all these people moving out and the fiscal problems, plans for a bigger airport and bigger port should be shelved for 20-30 years.August 9, 2006 at 8:42 PM #31507sdduuuudeParticipant
Im a definite NIMBY in this case as I live in Clairemont. The noise would make my place not so nice.
My NIMBY vote, however, will pale incomparison to that of the people with real money who live in UTC and La Jolla – directly under the take-off path.
I think big NIMBY money will stop this effort, unless someone with bigger money sees potential significant financial gain in the move to Miramar, which I don’t see.
Plus, with harder times coming, the funding for such a project may be hard to come by – I hope.
What is it with San Diego and duplicate resources? We have a staduim. We build another. We have an airport. We build another.August 9, 2006 at 8:47 PM #31508novice1027Participant
"JES, I don't think that enlisting makes someone a hero by default. It's a job like anything else. Military personel don't have to join. Military is just just the best job for the best pay for those who serve."
Now my hackles are up! I think signing up for any job that has the great potential to put your life on the line when duty calls, does make you a hero by default! If that doesn't then what in the world does?
The fact that they don't have to join, also makes them more of a hero, than if they were drafted and had no choice. Anyone who signs up knows that they can be called to duty to protect you, me, and anyone else, and knows that they have to go no questions asked because that is what they have sworn to do, is very much a hero in my mind.
Have you looked at the salary of an enlisted person? They aren't getting rich doing it.
Now I fell better! And thanks to all of our under paid heros out there, you are much appreciated in my mind!!!August 9, 2006 at 11:23 PM #31524PerryChaseParticipant
I asked my Navy friend to answer me honestly on why he joined the Navy. He said for the opportunity to learn to fly. Then I asked about love of country. He said that was one reason but not the primary reason. I asked him why he remains in the reserves to this day. He said for the specialized training and the retirement. I asked why he thought people enlist in the military. He said for the job opportunity and the training. Did he feel that enlisting is in itself an act of heroism? No.August 10, 2006 at 6:43 AM #31529carlislematthewParticipant
Can you imagine how property values would increase in Pt. Loma, OB, Mission Hills, Banker’s Hill and downtown if we got rid of airport noise?
I dread to think about the prices increases that would occur. You’re right – leave the airport where it is – it’s holding down prices! 😉August 10, 2006 at 7:49 AM #31531
Perry, In my experience most people don’t join the Marines for the specialized job experience or the pay and benefits, although some certainly do. Anyone thinking of joining for purely the benefits now would likely think twice after seeing the reports from Iraq. I’m sure your friend doesn’t think of himself as a hero, but others certainly do. That’s kind of how it works you know? Ask a firefighter or police officer if they think they are heros and they will say no.
Here’s the definition of hero:
A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
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