JFK: Defending the Indefensible

[PerryChase]

I also support compulsory military service for everyone — no exceptions.

I have a good friend who’s a military officer. People in the military tend to be Republican (or think that they are) because they like to speak in short to-the-point remarks or in a friendly banter. When I’m given the opportunity to speak one-on-one with my friend where I can have an intellectual conversation with him; and probe him on why he feels a certain way, then he’s more open minded.

The military is all about following orders and not questioning authority. Progressive thinking takes some pause and some reflection.

[PD]

Geez, Perry, you can’t really think that miltary folks are a bunch of androids. When you and your friend are having a conversation, does his skin gradually turn from green to human color?

For those of you who don’t get it, Data on Star Trek had green skin.

[Anonymous]

PC, I agree with you about Rumsfeld and defense contractors and the Pentagon. He’s moving the Army to be lighter and faster and for the forces to operate more ‘jointly.’ He’s invaluable in that role, and no one else has the credibility, intellect, guts, energy, and stamina to do such. I’m thrilled that he’s staying, because our military will be the better for it.

zk, I dunno, my work on predictors of future housing prices, correlation between home price increases and church attendance, quantification as to why we deserve a depression, etc. seemed pretty good, and were original work; I was impressed.

Woodrow, if you give me a specific threshold for ‘Those with the highest test scores and best grades hardly ever opt for military careers,’ e.g., top 1% or top 15% or upper half, I’ll be happy to dig up some statistics.

PC, we tried mandatory military service for all in the past — the draft — and civilians didn’t like it and the military didn’t like it. Nixon in fact adopted the idea championed by Friedman, of an all volunteer (you can call it mercenary, it doesn’t hurt my feelings) military. All volunteer works, and we should not go to the draft unless we have a major, major conflict.

JES, thanks for the backup with zk; I was busy earning my daily bread. Now, get back up on the mountain, sir!

To whomever complained about ‘broad brush’ comments: they’re fun and easy to make, and are a near-guarantee of a response!

[PD]

Wow, I appear to have made a statement with which Perry agrees and JG disagrees. Does that qualify me as a free thinker now? 🙂

[Anonymous]

PD, I agree with you that military service should be encouraged. Don’t think it should be a requirement of the President but I certainly respect a President more if they had a legitimate military background.

Not sure what insult you are talking about. If you are referring to my reference to military people being sheeple, that is not an insult, that is reality. Soldiers are taught to obey orders and especially for lower ranks not to ask questions. I’ll bet that I have served more time in the military than you have, I think I know how it works.

Regarding Clinton, you are right, in my experience the vast majority of military members were always negative about Clinton. I never totally understood why. The only real decision he made that affected the military was opening a can of worms with the “don’t ask don’t tell” policy. He never served in the military but for all practical purposes neither did W.

I can tell you that I was working in the Defense industry in the mid-late 90s during the Clinton era and there was plenty of work. In the grand scheme of things, most of the military development projects are long term and aren’t affected by an individual in office. There was certainly no shortage of defense spending during his term. Obviously much less than Reagan, but the Soviets were finished so the environment changed.

[zk]

“zk, I dunno, my work on predictors of future housing prices, correlation between home price increases and church attendance, quantification as to why we deserve a depression, etc. seemed pretty good, and were original work; I was impressed.”

Fair enough. Some of that stuff was pretty interesting. I was talking about politics, though. I mean, it seems to me that partisan people rarely cross the line to the other side of the aisle. Why is that? Do you disagree with the conservatives on anything? If you can come up with the above ideas, why does it seem that you can’t think on your own when it comes to politics? Why the automatic attack on anything or any person non-conservative? Why the automatic support of anything or any person conservative? Why the automatic discounting of anything that speaks poorly of the Bush administration?

For instance, Woodward’s book. He says that the Bushies, behind closed doors, regularly mocked the religious activists that they regularly claim as their base. I’m sure you can explain that away, because it can’t be true, because that would mean that bush et.al. are hypocrites. I’m sure that no matter what example I give, you’ll find some way to twist it around so that the conservatives come off seeming to be right, whether they are or not. That automatic search for any way possible to discredit the other side, regardless of whether they may be right or have a point is what bothers me so much about the extreme partisanship that defines politics today.

If you do have your own ideas, I’d like to hear some examples of where your philosopy differs from the conservatives’. Just for my own curiosity.

[Anonymous]

zk, beware of Bob Woodward. Two liberal Jewish guys wrote "Silent Coup," on the downfall of Nixon. Why did they write it? One, Len Colodny had shared some confidential information with Woodward and had his confidence betrayed.  Colodny heard others grumbling about similar behavior from Woodward, so Colodny did some investigative reporting on him.

Many folks don't trust Bob Woodward.  After reading this book, I don't, either.

http://www.silentcoup.com/

This book was an eye opener for me, and I will ensure that my children read it.  This book shows, in black and white, that you can't trust all folks whom you should be able to trust (Chief of Naval Operations, Counselor to the President, etc.).  Most highly recommended.

[Anonymous]

zk, to answer your question, there are two types within the Republican camp:

1. Fiscal conservatives/social liberals: libertarians, like the Wall Street Journal editorial page.

2. Fiscal conservatives/social conservatives. I am one of these.

There ARE disagreements within camp #2, e.g., Duncan Hunter (Vietnam vet conveniently NOT on KJM’s list) is a protectionist, while many other #2s are free traders (I am).

The Republican Party has a big tent, and welcomes both libertarians and conservatives. And, Republicans wholeheartedly agree that our Congress and President have been a big disappointment on the fiscal conservatism side. But, we also know that the DemoRats would be worse on fiscal matters and dangerous on social and security matters.

[L_Thek_onomics]

“Who served and who didn’t?”

You conveniently forgot your hero, William Jefferson (B.J.) Clinton. As I remember, he was served (by Monica)…

L Thek

[powayseller]

Kerry opened his speech with one-liner jokes about Bush. His last joke was the comment which made the media rounds, and it flopped because he omitted the word “us”, which was in his written speech.

His written speech said, “…if you’re not educted you will end up in Iraq like us”, meaning you make bad decisions like Bush has done.

So the context was 1) jokes, and 2) a flopped joke because he omitted the word “us” when he delivered the speech.

This story is more of an example of the danger of relying on soundbites.

Signed, powayseller
not a Republican or a Democrat, just someone trying to figure out what’s what, and learn the truth

Oh, and jg, please keep your personal views on cars, religion, and politics in off topic. Please use some restraint.

[JES]

Powayseller – Who appointed you as moderator? And this is the off topic section so I have no idea what you are talking about?

[powayseller]

JES, I’m referring to the comments in the other forums, where off topic comments have increased in the last few weeks…. I’m not a moderator, just voicing my opinion.

It’s interesting how much attention is bestowed on Kerry’s failed joke. We’ve got gullible people who don’t even know it was a failed joke. PD is misinterpreting a failed joke as an assault on service people. Meanwhile, the politicians once again got away with not discussing the failing economy, the precipitous position of the US dollar, the shrinking middle class, and the millions of people who will lose their homes to foreclosure. Why don’t they talk about topics which actually matter?

[PerryChase]

I think that threads should evolve like an ongoing conversation. If a thread is no longer relevant it’ll die-off and people will start new ones. We don’t need moderators.

[JES]

On that note I think we have beaten the dead horse enough with this thread. Not much else to say about what Kerry said, other than the fact that the remarks were stupid and a sorely needed gift to the GOP. I’m not convinced that his explanation about the written vs. spoken speech and the ommitted word is truthful. In my opinion he meant to say it just as it was spoken, but did not properly consider the implications or consequences of his words. It’s a throwback to Vietnam when there was talk about having to go to college or go to Vietnam, and there were debates about the underclasses of society being unfairly burdened by the draft. Even if the remarks were written differently by the speechwriter, his words were clear and he was unappologetic until the end. Whose to say that he didn’t just conveinantly discover that adding a word changes the meaning and then use that as his explanation? The kicker is that it makes a heck of alot more sense the way he actually said it than the other way around!

[L_Thek_onomics]

I’m confused. This “intelligent” man after practicing B.S. for over
30 years is not capable to tell a “joke” without botching it? All
those un-intelligent republicans misunderstand this genius, because
they’re just not capable to comprehend his sophystication? No.
Now, I’m going to apologize upfront to everyone I’ll offend (except
who doesn’t deserve it).
Senator Kerry has the long history of spitting on our military. Senator
Kerry has no history of speech impairment, but he has a long history of
moral impairment. This spineless gigolo is an embarrassment in the eye
of any sane individual. Did he apologize? To whom? Did this little “baby”
of Sugar Mama tell on his press conference, he intended to direct his
“joke” to President Bush? Did he apologize to the President? This guy is
an example of an un-curable mental disease. Those who try to protect
this piece of human waste, doing everything possible to discredit sanity.
Get real, please. Just because John Kerry hates George Bush and
everything America stands for, you don’t have to be part of this self destruction. There are many great Democrats to learn from. Read
history, trust traditional America and stay away from the insane wing of
neo-bolshevik Dean and Kerry wing of Democratic Party. My advise,
communicate more with republicans, and listen first…

L Thek

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