Japan 1990’s vs USA today

[XBoxBoy]

Wondering if anyone can shed some light on the similarities and differences between Japan’s economy in the 1990’s and the USA today. It’s my understanding that in the 1990’s Japan experienced a prolonged and serious recession brought on by a collapsing real estate bubble. What other factors are similar, and what other factors were different?

Also, I understand that the Japanese government tried numerous strategies to stimulate the economy, most of which didn’t work. How do these strategies differ from what we are likely to see coming out of Washington?

Any good links or books on this subject anyone can recommend?

Thanks,

XBoxBoy

[nostradamus]

I lived there in the 90’s but I was not as economically astute (not that I am now but slightly better than I was in the 90’s). IMO what’s happening is almost identical. In the 80’s and early-to-mid 90’s there was a bubble period not only in housing but in consumer spending in general. Many people had 2 or 3 cell phones and all kinds of blinking, shiny gadgets which gave rise to electronic towns the likes of Akihabara. Lots of Mercedes, BMWs, and even huge American autos started to appear. Divorce rates rose, birth rates fell, and many people left their jobs to pursue entrepreneurship and better pay.

All of Japan is smaller than 1/2 the size of California but the population is 3 times the state of California. As you might imagine, “they never make more land” was a popular argument for investing in real estate. Japan is a perfect example against this simplistic view.

One difference which struck me is that many Japanese companies have housing as a perk of the job. If you are married the company will help you pay rent or part of a mortgage. Many companies also own and operate dormitories where their single employees reside. I lived for free in one of those, it was like a shoe box.

Wiki has a brief excerpt about Japan’s recession here.

[robson]

One cause is demographics. Population growth contributes to economic growth, as in China or India today. From 1962-1984 Japan’s population grew 27%. 84-06 it grew 6.5%. On top of this the population has become increasingly elderly rather than working age. Many other factors contributed obviously, but this is a big one to explain long term growth stagnation.
It is both a difference and similarity with US today.
Our population is similarly getting older, which will eventually cause an economic burden, but immigration causes continual population growth for the US, which is a difference.

[robson]

One cause is demographics. Population growth contributes to economic growth, as in China or India today. From 1962-1984 Japan’s population grew 27%. 84-06 it grew 6.5%. On top of this the population has become increasingly elderly rather than working age. Many other factors contributed obviously, but this is a big one to explain long term growth stagnation.
It is both a difference and similarity with US today.
Our population is similarly getting older, which will eventually cause an economic burden, but immigration causes continual population growth for the US, which is a difference.

[robson]

One cause is demographics. Population growth contributes to economic growth, as in China or India today. From 1962-1984 Japan’s population grew 27%. 84-06 it grew 6.5%. On top of this the population has become increasingly elderly rather than working age. Many other factors contributed obviously, but this is a big one to explain long term growth stagnation.
It is both a difference and similarity with US today.
Our population is similarly getting older, which will eventually cause an economic burden, but immigration causes continual population growth for the US, which is a difference.

[robson]

One cause is demographics. Population growth contributes to economic growth, as in China or India today. From 1962-1984 Japan’s population grew 27%. 84-06 it grew 6.5%. On top of this the population has become increasingly elderly rather than working age. Many other factors contributed obviously, but this is a big one to explain long term growth stagnation.
It is both a difference and similarity with US today.
Our population is similarly getting older, which will eventually cause an economic burden, but immigration causes continual population growth for the US, which is a difference.

[robson]

One cause is demographics. Population growth contributes to economic growth, as in China or India today. From 1962-1984 Japan’s population grew 27%. 84-06 it grew 6.5%. On top of this the population has become increasingly elderly rather than working age. Many other factors contributed obviously, but this is a big one to explain long term growth stagnation.
It is both a difference and similarity with US today.
Our population is similarly getting older, which will eventually cause an economic burden, but immigration causes continual population growth for the US, which is a difference.

[nostradamus]

I lived there in the 90’s but I was not as economically astute (not that I am now but slightly better than I was in the 90’s). IMO what’s happening is almost identical. In the 80’s and early-to-mid 90’s there was a bubble period not only in housing but in consumer spending in general. Many people had 2 or 3 cell phones and all kinds of blinking, shiny gadgets which gave rise to electronic towns the likes of Akihabara. Lots of Mercedes, BMWs, and even huge American autos started to appear. Divorce rates rose, birth rates fell, and many people left their jobs to pursue entrepreneurship and better pay.

All of Japan is smaller than 1/2 the size of California but the population is 3 times the state of California. As you might imagine, “they never make more land” was a popular argument for investing in real estate. Japan is a perfect example against this simplistic view.

One difference which struck me is that many Japanese companies have housing as a perk of the job. If you are married the company will help you pay rent or part of a mortgage. Many companies also own and operate dormitories where their single employees reside. I lived for free in one of those, it was like a shoe box.

Wiki has a brief excerpt about Japan’s recession here.

[nostradamus]

I lived there in the 90’s but I was not as economically astute (not that I am now but slightly better than I was in the 90’s). IMO what’s happening is almost identical. In the 80’s and early-to-mid 90’s there was a bubble period not only in housing but in consumer spending in general. Many people had 2 or 3 cell phones and all kinds of blinking, shiny gadgets which gave rise to electronic towns the likes of Akihabara. Lots of Mercedes, BMWs, and even huge American autos started to appear. Divorce rates rose, birth rates fell, and many people left their jobs to pursue entrepreneurship and better pay.

All of Japan is smaller than 1/2 the size of California but the population is 3 times the state of California. As you might imagine, “they never make more land” was a popular argument for investing in real estate. Japan is a perfect example against this simplistic view.

One difference which struck me is that many Japanese companies have housing as a perk of the job. If you are married the company will help you pay rent or part of a mortgage. Many companies also own and operate dormitories where their single employees reside. I lived for free in one of those, it was like a shoe box.

Wiki has a brief excerpt about Japan’s recession here.

[nostradamus]

I lived there in the 90’s but I was not as economically astute (not that I am now but slightly better than I was in the 90’s). IMO what’s happening is almost identical. In the 80’s and early-to-mid 90’s there was a bubble period not only in housing but in consumer spending in general. Many people had 2 or 3 cell phones and all kinds of blinking, shiny gadgets which gave rise to electronic towns the likes of Akihabara. Lots of Mercedes, BMWs, and even huge American autos started to appear. Divorce rates rose, birth rates fell, and many people left their jobs to pursue entrepreneurship and better pay.

All of Japan is smaller than 1/2 the size of California but the population is 3 times the state of California. As you might imagine, “they never make more land” was a popular argument for investing in real estate. Japan is a perfect example against this simplistic view.

One difference which struck me is that many Japanese companies have housing as a perk of the job. If you are married the company will help you pay rent or part of a mortgage. Many companies also own and operate dormitories where their single employees reside. I lived for free in one of those, it was like a shoe box.

Wiki has a brief excerpt about Japan’s recession here.

[nostradamus]

I lived there in the 90’s but I was not as economically astute (not that I am now but slightly better than I was in the 90’s). IMO what’s happening is almost identical. In the 80’s and early-to-mid 90’s there was a bubble period not only in housing but in consumer spending in general. Many people had 2 or 3 cell phones and all kinds of blinking, shiny gadgets which gave rise to electronic towns the likes of Akihabara. Lots of Mercedes, BMWs, and even huge American autos started to appear. Divorce rates rose, birth rates fell, and many people left their jobs to pursue entrepreneurship and better pay.

All of Japan is smaller than 1/2 the size of California but the population is 3 times the state of California. As you might imagine, “they never make more land” was a popular argument for investing in real estate. Japan is a perfect example against this simplistic view.

One difference which struck me is that many Japanese companies have housing as a perk of the job. If you are married the company will help you pay rent or part of a mortgage. Many companies also own and operate dormitories where their single employees reside. I lived for free in one of those, it was like a shoe box.

Wiki has a brief excerpt about Japan’s recession here.

[Sunnyjim]

No easy comparison.

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

This thread sparked me to do a bit of googling.

Japan and the US have somewhat similar economies, featuring high technology, some similar institutions, an aging demographic, and so on. Economic stimulus in general didn’t work well there in the nineties (according to the link below on the Japanese economy – see the section on the bubble economy); recovery was slow.

Upshot is that there are some similarities, but there are no simple “compare and contrast” talking points.

Here are some links and thoughts I ran across:

Japanese Economy

On the larger issue of “What works to stimulate economies”:

Article on why the current US proposals won’t work

Quote One from the above article follows: – – – – –

It seems politicians’ big idea is that since they couldn’t protect us from predatory lenders, outsourcing manufacturers, the crashing dollar and energy speculators, they can at least numb the pain by mailing us $20 bills to rub on our wounds.

– – – End Quote One – – – –

Quote Two from the above article follows: – – –

A pair of economists have written a great paper for the Brookings Institution that lays out an analytical framework for understanding what has worked in the past, and though that institution has served as a think tank for Democrats and will therefore be dismissed out of hand by the GOP, I hope all sides will take the paper’s findings to heart. The paper by Douglas W. Elmendorf and Jason Furman says effective stimulus must be timely, targeted and temporary, and that a combination of tax rebates and direct government spending on anything but infrastructure (because it takes too long) has the most immediate boost to the economy.

– – – End Quote Two – – –

Link to the Brookings study mentioned above.

I hope this is helpful to the curious.

Closing by thanking The Professor (Rich) for such a profound and useful forum. I especially love his charts and graphs which which very high on the “information-to-ink” ratio.

[“SunnyJim” comes from my longtime interst in solar energy and an optimistic outlook, NOT on any bright prospects for property values in Southern California.]

~ SunnyJim

[kewp]

A big difference in Japan is that there is no concept of debt forgiveness.

[kewp]

A big difference in Japan is that there is no concept of debt forgiveness.

[kewp]

A big difference in Japan is that there is no concept of debt forgiveness.

[kewp]

A big difference in Japan is that there is no concept of debt forgiveness.

[kewp]

A big difference in Japan is that there is no concept of debt forgiveness.

[Sunnyjim]

No easy comparison.

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

This thread sparked me to do a bit of googling.

Japan and the US have somewhat similar economies, featuring high technology, some similar institutions, an aging demographic, and so on. Economic stimulus in general didn’t work well there in the nineties (according to the link below on the Japanese economy – see the section on the bubble economy); recovery was slow.

Upshot is that there are some similarities, but there are no simple “compare and contrast” talking points.

Here are some links and thoughts I ran across:

Japanese Economy

On the larger issue of “What works to stimulate economies”:

Article on why the current US proposals won’t work

Quote One from the above article follows: – – – – –

It seems politicians’ big idea is that since they couldn’t protect us from predatory lenders, outsourcing manufacturers, the crashing dollar and energy speculators, they can at least numb the pain by mailing us $20 bills to rub on our wounds.

– – – End Quote One – – – –

Quote Two from the above article follows: – – –

A pair of economists have written a great paper for the Brookings Institution that lays out an analytical framework for understanding what has worked in the past, and though that institution has served as a think tank for Democrats and will therefore be dismissed out of hand by the GOP, I hope all sides will take the paper’s findings to heart. The paper by Douglas W. Elmendorf and Jason Furman says effective stimulus must be timely, targeted and temporary, and that a combination of tax rebates and direct government spending on anything but infrastructure (because it takes too long) has the most immediate boost to the economy.

– – – End Quote Two – – –

Link to the Brookings study mentioned above.

I hope this is helpful to the curious.

Closing by thanking The Professor (Rich) for such a profound and useful forum. I especially love his charts and graphs which which very high on the “information-to-ink” ratio.

[“SunnyJim” comes from my longtime interst in solar energy and an optimistic outlook, NOT on any bright prospects for property values in Southern California.]

~ SunnyJim

[Sunnyjim]

No easy comparison.

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

This thread sparked me to do a bit of googling.

Japan and the US have somewhat similar economies, featuring high technology, some similar institutions, an aging demographic, and so on. Economic stimulus in general didn’t work well there in the nineties (according to the link below on the Japanese economy – see the section on the bubble economy); recovery was slow.

Upshot is that there are some similarities, but there are no simple “compare and contrast” talking points.

Here are some links and thoughts I ran across:

Japanese Economy

On the larger issue of “What works to stimulate economies”:

Article on why the current US proposals won’t work

Quote One from the above article follows: – – – – –

It seems politicians’ big idea is that since they couldn’t protect us from predatory lenders, outsourcing manufacturers, the crashing dollar and energy speculators, they can at least numb the pain by mailing us $20 bills to rub on our wounds.

– – – End Quote One – – – –

Quote Two from the above article follows: – – –

A pair of economists have written a great paper for the Brookings Institution that lays out an analytical framework for understanding what has worked in the past, and though that institution has served as a think tank for Democrats and will therefore be dismissed out of hand by the GOP, I hope all sides will take the paper’s findings to heart. The paper by Douglas W. Elmendorf and Jason Furman says effective stimulus must be timely, targeted and temporary, and that a combination of tax rebates and direct government spending on anything but infrastructure (because it takes too long) has the most immediate boost to the economy.

– – – End Quote Two – – –

Link to the Brookings study mentioned above.

I hope this is helpful to the curious.

Closing by thanking The Professor (Rich) for such a profound and useful forum. I especially love his charts and graphs which which very high on the “information-to-ink” ratio.

[“SunnyJim” comes from my longtime interst in solar energy and an optimistic outlook, NOT on any bright prospects for property values in Southern California.]

~ SunnyJim

[Sunnyjim]

No easy comparison.

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

This thread sparked me to do a bit of googling.

Japan and the US have somewhat similar economies, featuring high technology, some similar institutions, an aging demographic, and so on. Economic stimulus in general didn’t work well there in the nineties (according to the link below on the Japanese economy – see the section on the bubble economy); recovery was slow.

Upshot is that there are some similarities, but there are no simple “compare and contrast” talking points.

Here are some links and thoughts I ran across:

Japanese Economy

On the larger issue of “What works to stimulate economies”:

Article on why the current US proposals won’t work

Quote One from the above article follows: – – – – –

It seems politicians’ big idea is that since they couldn’t protect us from predatory lenders, outsourcing manufacturers, the crashing dollar and energy speculators, they can at least numb the pain by mailing us $20 bills to rub on our wounds.

– – – End Quote One – – – –

Quote Two from the above article follows: – – –

A pair of economists have written a great paper for the Brookings Institution that lays out an analytical framework for understanding what has worked in the past, and though that institution has served as a think tank for Democrats and will therefore be dismissed out of hand by the GOP, I hope all sides will take the paper’s findings to heart. The paper by Douglas W. Elmendorf and Jason Furman says effective stimulus must be timely, targeted and temporary, and that a combination of tax rebates and direct government spending on anything but infrastructure (because it takes too long) has the most immediate boost to the economy.

– – – End Quote Two – – –

Link to the Brookings study mentioned above.

I hope this is helpful to the curious.

Closing by thanking The Professor (Rich) for such a profound and useful forum. I especially love his charts and graphs which which very high on the “information-to-ink” ratio.

[“SunnyJim” comes from my longtime interst in solar energy and an optimistic outlook, NOT on any bright prospects for property values in Southern California.]

~ SunnyJim

[Sunnyjim]

No easy comparison.

Longtime lurker, first-time poster.

This thread sparked me to do a bit of googling.

Japan and the US have somewhat similar economies, featuring high technology, some similar institutions, an aging demographic, and so on. Economic stimulus in general didn’t work well there in the nineties (according to the link below on the Japanese economy – see the section on the bubble economy); recovery was slow.

Upshot is that there are some similarities, but there are no simple “compare and contrast” talking points.

Here are some links and thoughts I ran across:

Japanese Economy

On the larger issue of “What works to stimulate economies”:

Article on why the current US proposals won’t work

Quote One from the above article follows: – – – – –

It seems politicians’ big idea is that since they couldn’t protect us from predatory lenders, outsourcing manufacturers, the crashing dollar and energy speculators, they can at least numb the pain by mailing us $20 bills to rub on our wounds.

– – – End Quote One – – – –

Quote Two from the above article follows: – – –

A pair of economists have written a great paper for the Brookings Institution that lays out an analytical framework for understanding what has worked in the past, and though that institution has served as a think tank for Democrats and will therefore be dismissed out of hand by the GOP, I hope all sides will take the paper’s findings to heart. The paper by Douglas W. Elmendorf and Jason Furman says effective stimulus must be timely, targeted and temporary, and that a combination of tax rebates and direct government spending on anything but infrastructure (because it takes too long) has the most immediate boost to the economy.

– – – End Quote Two – – –

Link to the Brookings study mentioned above.

I hope this is helpful to the curious.

Closing by thanking The Professor (Rich) for such a profound and useful forum. I especially love his charts and graphs which which very high on the “information-to-ink” ratio.

[“SunnyJim” comes from my longtime interst in solar energy and an optimistic outlook, NOT on any bright prospects for property values in Southern California.]

~ SunnyJim

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