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scaredyclassic.
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March 12, 2018 at 2:47 PM #809600March 12, 2018 at 3:48 PM #809601
scaredyclassic
Participant[quote=harvey]
[/quote]does any religion say otherwise?
hell, we have trouble doing that on chat groups.
March 12, 2018 at 4:09 PM #809602njtosd
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]I am open though to some sort of miracle conversion experience.
frankly, id love to see G-d win me over.
unlikely tho. im so mad at Him.[/quote]
I think trying to analyze this using logic is like trying to jack up your car using knitting needles. Logic and knitting needles are both useful tools – for their own purposes. This all sounds sort of dark for you, by the way.
March 12, 2018 at 5:50 PM #809604Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]I am open though to some sort of miracle conversion experience.
frankly, id love to see G-d win me over.
unlikely tho. im so mad at Him.[/quote]
I think trying to analyze this using logic is like trying to jack up your car using knitting needles. Logic and knitting needles are both useful tools – for their own purposes. This all sounds sort of dark for you, by the way.[/quote]
This is nothing. I’m a,pretty dark fellow. some days it all seems amusing. but usually the world looks to me filled with hypocritical, nasty, selfish people, using politics, religion, philosophy law or whatever weapon or tool is at hand to beat others down.
March 12, 2018 at 5:53 PM #809605ParticipantG-d himself absolutely loves a good logical lawyerly argument. why shouldn’t we?
Abraham Pleads for Sodom
16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[a] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”
22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[b] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[c] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”
“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”
He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”
He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”
He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”
He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.
March 12, 2018 at 6:45 PM #809606ParticipantI may be dark, but the Bible is wayyyyy darker. Jesus is,supposed to be the fun part, but the bottom line is believe in him or spend all of time in hell. that seems…kind of a bummer
Abraham kicks ass. doesnt it seem like G-d kind of wants us to stand up to him, pipe up, not just sit there and take it?
maybe He can overreact a bit….and we need to calm him down. like me.
March 12, 2018 at 11:24 PM #809608Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]I may be dark, but the Bible is wayyyyy darker. Jesus is,supposed to be the fun part, but the bottom line is believe in him or spend all of time in hell. that seems…kind of a bummer
Abraham kicks ass. doesnt it seem like G-d kind of wants us to stand up to him, pipe up, not just sit there and take it?
maybe He can overreact a bit….and we need to calm him down. like me.[/quote]
Wasn’t Abraham known for obedience? Isn’t that sort of the central story of Abraham and Jonah and Noah now that I think about it. My recollection of the Old Testament is that it seems to involve a lot of misbehaving, smiting and giving the good stuff to the people who were obedient. Not a lot of points for piping up.
Moderation in all things. I like hearing what my kids think, but often I want them to stop piping up and get with the plan. When a doctor says eat well and exercise or you’re going to have a heart attack, that’s not a threat – it is a manifestation of caring. Depends on what you’re in the mood to hear.
You should go listen to some jazz and relax.
March 12, 2018 at 11:48 PM #809609Participantthe G-d of mixed messages. a moody highly abusive parent.
I hate authority generally.
grrr
March 13, 2018 at 8:41 AM #809612outtamojo
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]I may be dark, but the Bible is wayyyyy darker. Jesus is,supposed to be the fun part, but the bottom line is believe in him or spend all of time in hell. that seems…kind of a bummer
Abraham kicks ass. doesnt it seem like G-d kind of wants us to stand up to him, pipe up, not just sit there and take it?
maybe He can overreact a bit….and we need to calm him down. like me.[/quote]
What kind of person would be able to fully enjoy themselves in Heaven knowing that the other half of humanity, even people they knew or cared about was being tortured in Hell?
March 13, 2018 at 9:56 AM #809614Participant[quote=outtamojo][quote=scaredyclassic]I may be dark, but the Bible is wayyyyy darker. Jesus is,supposed to be the fun part, but the bottom line is believe in him or spend all of time in hell. that seems…kind of a bummer
Abraham kicks ass. doesnt it seem like G-d kind of wants us to stand up to him, pipe up, not just sit there and take it?
maybe He can overreact a bit….and we need to calm him down. like me.[/quote]
What kind of person would be able to fully enjoy themselves in Heaven knowing that the other half of humanity, even people they knew or cared about was being tortured in Hell?[/quote]
people who possess and think and worry about money a lot, i.e., rich people, aren’t likely getting into heaven anyway.
wait….thats us….
i see no moral force. Abraham wanted to kill isaac because that’s how the video game played out, because he was a psychotic abusive dad. similarly, even if i heard the actual voice of G-d, and i knew for sure it wasnt just me being delusional, i would not sacrifice my son. because even if He exists, and he has an inscrutable plan, and he created me, I do NOT GIVE A SHIT, when he is just playing games with me, “testing” me. fuck you, Mr creator and your tests, and all the other patriarchal testing bullies out there in the real and virtual world, whether you’re the programmer of this world we think we inhabit, a military recruiter, a scammy preacher, a politician, Jesus or a fellow human.
the game runs and we try to pretend there is a moral narrative but it is like replaying a round of Grand Theft Auto and trying to find a moral message there where nothing but a meaningless unfurling of events possible within the rules unfolds.
I guess in the same way thato an evangelist gets pleasure from bringing someone to Christ, i get an equal inverse pleasure in the opposite possibility. I’m like a missionary for our utter aloneness in the universe.
I’m pretty sure I need therapy for this.
the isdue has to do with a general sense that I’m an idiot who believed certain lies. pretty sure this,anger has nothing really to do w religion.
March 13, 2018 at 10:51 AM #809616Participant[quote=outtamojo]
What kind of person would be able to fully enjoy themselves in Heaven knowing that the other half of humanity, even people they knew or cared about was being tortured in Hell?[/quote]
Maybe Heaven is the ability to forget that there are any bad things anywhere. Like being a squirrel. No knowledge that there was a time before you, no knowledge that there will be a time after you, no knowledge that there is a hawk’s nest above your burrow, general enjoyment of acorns and other squirrels.
March 13, 2018 at 10:54 AM #809617Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]
i see no moral force. Abraham wanted to kill isaac because that’s how the video game played out, because he was a psychotic abusive dad. similarly, even if i heard the actual voice of G-d, and i knew for sure it wasnt just me being delusional, i would not sacrifice my son. because even if He exists, and he has an inscrutable plan, and he created me, I do NOT GIVE A SHIT, when he is just playing games with me, “testing” me. [/quote]
Reminds me of a thing by Norm McDonald – before he was Colonel Sanders:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/i6sbip/stand-up-norm-macdonald–bob-the-devil
March 13, 2018 at 10:59 AM #809618Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=scaredyclassic]
i see no moral force. Abraham wanted to kill isaac because that’s how the video game played out, because he was a psychotic abusive dad. similarly, even if i heard the actual voice of G-d, and i knew for sure it wasnt just me being delusional, i would not sacrifice my son. because even if He exists, and he has an inscrutable plan, and he created me, I do NOT GIVE A SHIT, when he is just playing games with me, “testing” me. [/quote]
Reminds me of a thing by Norm McDonald – before he was Colonel Sanders:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/i6sbip/stand-up-norm-macdonald–bob-the-devil%5B/quote%5D
norm is funny!
we are all wearing devil masks and Jesus masks, i guess, trying to scare and trick one another.
I so often feel I’m an impostor.
March 13, 2018 at 10:59 AM #809619Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=outtamojo]
What kind of person would be able to fully enjoy themselves in Heaven knowing that the other half of humanity, even people they knew or cared about was being tortured in Hell?[/quote]
Maybe Heaven is the ability to forget that there are any bad things anywhere. Like being a squirrel. No knowledge that there was a time before you, no knowledge that there will be a time after you, no knowledge that there is a hawk’s nest above your burrow, general enjoyment of acorns and other squirrels.[/quote]
I am currently reading Proust.
March 13, 2018 at 11:03 AM #809620Participant[quote=njtosd][quote=outtamojo]
What kind of person would be able to fully enjoy themselves in Heaven knowing that the other half of humanity, even people they knew or cared about was being tortured in Hell?[/quote]
Maybe Heaven is the ability to forget that there are any bad things anywhere. Like being a squirrel. No knowledge that there was a time before you, no knowledge that there will be a time after you, no knowledge that there is a hawk’s nest above your burrow, general enjoyment of acorns and other squirrels.[/quote]
Like in one of my fav’s Childhood’s End.
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