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svelte.
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January 16, 2009 at 12:30 AM #330159January 16, 2009 at 12:30 AM #330186
NewtoSanDiego
GuestThanks for the valuable information on the impact of Palomar airport on surrounding residential areas.
I’m currently looking for a nice 4 BR Single family home in South Carlsbad.
NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I EVEN CONSIDER A HOUSE IN SURROUNDING AREA, SUCH AS BRESSI RANCH!!
I WILL NOT BE PUTTING MY FAMILY AT RISK AND I DON’T WANT MY HOUSE BUZZED BY AIRCRAFT AT ALL HOURS. PEOPLE ARE DUMB TO BUY THERE. (ADDED ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS)
THIS SITE IS AN AWESOME SOURCE OF INFORMATION!!!!!
January 16, 2009 at 12:30 AM #330270GuestThanks for the valuable information on the impact of Palomar airport on surrounding residential areas.
I’m currently looking for a nice 4 BR Single family home in South Carlsbad.
NO WAY IN HELL WOULD I EVEN CONSIDER A HOUSE IN SURROUNDING AREA, SUCH AS BRESSI RANCH!!
I WILL NOT BE PUTTING MY FAMILY AT RISK AND I DON’T WANT MY HOUSE BUZZED BY AIRCRAFT AT ALL HOURS. PEOPLE ARE DUMB TO BUY THERE. (ADDED ALL CAPS FOR EMPHASIS)
THIS SITE IS AN AWESOME SOURCE OF INFORMATION!!!!!
January 16, 2009 at 9:38 AM #329812Anonymous
GuestAs a matter of correction, here are the actual stunning statistics from NTSB. Some are listed twice and I have corrected. If this does not get attention of FAA and the county and hopefully pilots I do not know what will. There is a critical situation here.
If this does not present a case for mandatory quiet hours and flight paths, I do not know what will. The expansion of the airport will only increase these tragedies with increased operations and larger passenger loads. It may even be doable if there were mandatory rules like at these other larger airports who handle more traffic, but under strict rules and controllers on duty, resulting in safer communities.
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location Incidents Fatalities operations*Palomar 16 13 215,000
John Wayne 8 0 334,000
Lindberg 10 1 227,000
Los Angeles 26 8 506,000
Naples, FL 10 1 132,000
Van Nuys, CA 15 3 504,000Operations from Airnav.com, incidents & fatalities from NTSB.com
We can all continue the spitting contest of who was here first and why we are here now. But, going to the beginning, there were many fewer planes and homes. Homes or the airport will not go away, nor should it. Sooooooo. Why don’t we all try to prevent growth of either so as to minimize future problems. Then let’s all try to work together – a very novel thought. This would include cooperation as was the intent of the Fly Friendly Program, initiated by residents and reluctantly approved by PAAC and the county. Unfortunately, the result of “let’s all just get along and cooperate” (which includes having pilots follow the guidelines) has simply not made a difference as evidenced by the constant traffic over homes.
What is so hard about following the departure patterns and Quiet Hours? I can tell you this. If they do not get followed voluntarily on a more frequent basis, the above statistics certainly warrent consideration of mandatory rules. Then you plane people may get stuck with Mandatory rules altogether, which will really put a crimp in your freedom. So, it stands to reason, if you all can get your fellow aviators to comply, and then residents can see this, they will let down their cries for mandatory and go back into thier homes and everyone can be happy. That is called cooperation. If not, the valid safety concerns of residents will surely be heard and result in restictions (ie mandatory) that you do not want.
While I am at this, there appears to be a huge divergence of interest between the hobbyist pilots and the jet/commercial entepreneurs at the airport. Can anyone explain on how these two groups work with or against each other?
Thats all for now. GG
January 16, 2009 at 9:38 AM #330151GuestAs a matter of correction, here are the actual stunning statistics from NTSB. Some are listed twice and I have corrected. If this does not get attention of FAA and the county and hopefully pilots I do not know what will. There is a critical situation here.
If this does not present a case for mandatory quiet hours and flight paths, I do not know what will. The expansion of the airport will only increase these tragedies with increased operations and larger passenger loads. It may even be doable if there were mandatory rules like at these other larger airports who handle more traffic, but under strict rules and controllers on duty, resulting in safer communities.
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location Incidents Fatalities operations*Palomar 16 13 215,000
John Wayne 8 0 334,000
Lindberg 10 1 227,000
Los Angeles 26 8 506,000
Naples, FL 10 1 132,000
Van Nuys, CA 15 3 504,000Operations from Airnav.com, incidents & fatalities from NTSB.com
We can all continue the spitting contest of who was here first and why we are here now. But, going to the beginning, there were many fewer planes and homes. Homes or the airport will not go away, nor should it. Sooooooo. Why don’t we all try to prevent growth of either so as to minimize future problems. Then let’s all try to work together – a very novel thought. This would include cooperation as was the intent of the Fly Friendly Program, initiated by residents and reluctantly approved by PAAC and the county. Unfortunately, the result of “let’s all just get along and cooperate” (which includes having pilots follow the guidelines) has simply not made a difference as evidenced by the constant traffic over homes.
What is so hard about following the departure patterns and Quiet Hours? I can tell you this. If they do not get followed voluntarily on a more frequent basis, the above statistics certainly warrent consideration of mandatory rules. Then you plane people may get stuck with Mandatory rules altogether, which will really put a crimp in your freedom. So, it stands to reason, if you all can get your fellow aviators to comply, and then residents can see this, they will let down their cries for mandatory and go back into thier homes and everyone can be happy. That is called cooperation. If not, the valid safety concerns of residents will surely be heard and result in restictions (ie mandatory) that you do not want.
While I am at this, there appears to be a huge divergence of interest between the hobbyist pilots and the jet/commercial entepreneurs at the airport. Can anyone explain on how these two groups work with or against each other?
Thats all for now. GG
January 16, 2009 at 9:38 AM #330224GuestAs a matter of correction, here are the actual stunning statistics from NTSB. Some are listed twice and I have corrected. If this does not get attention of FAA and the county and hopefully pilots I do not know what will. There is a critical situation here.
If this does not present a case for mandatory quiet hours and flight paths, I do not know what will. The expansion of the airport will only increase these tragedies with increased operations and larger passenger loads. It may even be doable if there were mandatory rules like at these other larger airports who handle more traffic, but under strict rules and controllers on duty, resulting in safer communities.
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location Incidents Fatalities operations*Palomar 16 13 215,000
John Wayne 8 0 334,000
Lindberg 10 1 227,000
Los Angeles 26 8 506,000
Naples, FL 10 1 132,000
Van Nuys, CA 15 3 504,000Operations from Airnav.com, incidents & fatalities from NTSB.com
We can all continue the spitting contest of who was here first and why we are here now. But, going to the beginning, there were many fewer planes and homes. Homes or the airport will not go away, nor should it. Sooooooo. Why don’t we all try to prevent growth of either so as to minimize future problems. Then let’s all try to work together – a very novel thought. This would include cooperation as was the intent of the Fly Friendly Program, initiated by residents and reluctantly approved by PAAC and the county. Unfortunately, the result of “let’s all just get along and cooperate” (which includes having pilots follow the guidelines) has simply not made a difference as evidenced by the constant traffic over homes.
What is so hard about following the departure patterns and Quiet Hours? I can tell you this. If they do not get followed voluntarily on a more frequent basis, the above statistics certainly warrent consideration of mandatory rules. Then you plane people may get stuck with Mandatory rules altogether, which will really put a crimp in your freedom. So, it stands to reason, if you all can get your fellow aviators to comply, and then residents can see this, they will let down their cries for mandatory and go back into thier homes and everyone can be happy. That is called cooperation. If not, the valid safety concerns of residents will surely be heard and result in restictions (ie mandatory) that you do not want.
While I am at this, there appears to be a huge divergence of interest between the hobbyist pilots and the jet/commercial entepreneurs at the airport. Can anyone explain on how these two groups work with or against each other?
Thats all for now. GG
January 16, 2009 at 9:38 AM #330252GuestAs a matter of correction, here are the actual stunning statistics from NTSB. Some are listed twice and I have corrected. If this does not get attention of FAA and the county and hopefully pilots I do not know what will. There is a critical situation here.
If this does not present a case for mandatory quiet hours and flight paths, I do not know what will. The expansion of the airport will only increase these tragedies with increased operations and larger passenger loads. It may even be doable if there were mandatory rules like at these other larger airports who handle more traffic, but under strict rules and controllers on duty, resulting in safer communities.
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location Incidents Fatalities operations*Palomar 16 13 215,000
John Wayne 8 0 334,000
Lindberg 10 1 227,000
Los Angeles 26 8 506,000
Naples, FL 10 1 132,000
Van Nuys, CA 15 3 504,000Operations from Airnav.com, incidents & fatalities from NTSB.com
We can all continue the spitting contest of who was here first and why we are here now. But, going to the beginning, there were many fewer planes and homes. Homes or the airport will not go away, nor should it. Sooooooo. Why don’t we all try to prevent growth of either so as to minimize future problems. Then let’s all try to work together – a very novel thought. This would include cooperation as was the intent of the Fly Friendly Program, initiated by residents and reluctantly approved by PAAC and the county. Unfortunately, the result of “let’s all just get along and cooperate” (which includes having pilots follow the guidelines) has simply not made a difference as evidenced by the constant traffic over homes.
What is so hard about following the departure patterns and Quiet Hours? I can tell you this. If they do not get followed voluntarily on a more frequent basis, the above statistics certainly warrent consideration of mandatory rules. Then you plane people may get stuck with Mandatory rules altogether, which will really put a crimp in your freedom. So, it stands to reason, if you all can get your fellow aviators to comply, and then residents can see this, they will let down their cries for mandatory and go back into thier homes and everyone can be happy. That is called cooperation. If not, the valid safety concerns of residents will surely be heard and result in restictions (ie mandatory) that you do not want.
While I am at this, there appears to be a huge divergence of interest between the hobbyist pilots and the jet/commercial entepreneurs at the airport. Can anyone explain on how these two groups work with or against each other?
Thats all for now. GG
January 16, 2009 at 9:38 AM #330335GuestAs a matter of correction, here are the actual stunning statistics from NTSB. Some are listed twice and I have corrected. If this does not get attention of FAA and the county and hopefully pilots I do not know what will. There is a critical situation here.
If this does not present a case for mandatory quiet hours and flight paths, I do not know what will. The expansion of the airport will only increase these tragedies with increased operations and larger passenger loads. It may even be doable if there were mandatory rules like at these other larger airports who handle more traffic, but under strict rules and controllers on duty, resulting in safer communities.
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location Incidents Fatalities operations*Palomar 16 13 215,000
John Wayne 8 0 334,000
Lindberg 10 1 227,000
Los Angeles 26 8 506,000
Naples, FL 10 1 132,000
Van Nuys, CA 15 3 504,000Operations from Airnav.com, incidents & fatalities from NTSB.com
We can all continue the spitting contest of who was here first and why we are here now. But, going to the beginning, there were many fewer planes and homes. Homes or the airport will not go away, nor should it. Sooooooo. Why don’t we all try to prevent growth of either so as to minimize future problems. Then let’s all try to work together – a very novel thought. This would include cooperation as was the intent of the Fly Friendly Program, initiated by residents and reluctantly approved by PAAC and the county. Unfortunately, the result of “let’s all just get along and cooperate” (which includes having pilots follow the guidelines) has simply not made a difference as evidenced by the constant traffic over homes.
What is so hard about following the departure patterns and Quiet Hours? I can tell you this. If they do not get followed voluntarily on a more frequent basis, the above statistics certainly warrent consideration of mandatory rules. Then you plane people may get stuck with Mandatory rules altogether, which will really put a crimp in your freedom. So, it stands to reason, if you all can get your fellow aviators to comply, and then residents can see this, they will let down their cries for mandatory and go back into thier homes and everyone can be happy. That is called cooperation. If not, the valid safety concerns of residents will surely be heard and result in restictions (ie mandatory) that you do not want.
While I am at this, there appears to be a huge divergence of interest between the hobbyist pilots and the jet/commercial entepreneurs at the airport. Can anyone explain on how these two groups work with or against each other?
Thats all for now. GG
January 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM #329933GuestI bought here because the disclosures warned us of the airport but told us that there was a VNAP in place and that planes did not fly over our neighborhoods!! My neighborhood was NOT in the flight path and it stated that in the sales office. In fact, we considered buying in Rancho Carrillo but felt the planes might fly over that area so did not buy there. Furthermore, at the time the airport was so small and we were told it could not expand.
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
The reason our group talks about the quiet hours is because of the absence of people in the control tower during those times, which we feel is a safety issue. I am not complaining about the noise.
If you do your research you will discover that the accident rate at Palomar is scary:
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location
Incidents
Fatalities
operations*
Palomar Airport, Carlsbad CA
16
13
215,000
John Wayne, Santa Ana, CA
8
0
334,000
Lindberg, San Diego, CA
10
1
227,000
Los Angeles, CA
26
8
506,000
Naples, FL
10
1
132,000
Van Nuys, CA
15
3
504,000
I feel no need to elaborate further.
January 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM #330271GuestI bought here because the disclosures warned us of the airport but told us that there was a VNAP in place and that planes did not fly over our neighborhoods!! My neighborhood was NOT in the flight path and it stated that in the sales office. In fact, we considered buying in Rancho Carrillo but felt the planes might fly over that area so did not buy there. Furthermore, at the time the airport was so small and we were told it could not expand.
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
The reason our group talks about the quiet hours is because of the absence of people in the control tower during those times, which we feel is a safety issue. I am not complaining about the noise.
If you do your research you will discover that the accident rate at Palomar is scary:
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location
Incidents
Fatalities
operations*
Palomar Airport, Carlsbad CA
16
13
215,000
John Wayne, Santa Ana, CA
8
0
334,000
Lindberg, San Diego, CA
10
1
227,000
Los Angeles, CA
26
8
506,000
Naples, FL
10
1
132,000
Van Nuys, CA
15
3
504,000
I feel no need to elaborate further.
January 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM #330344GuestI bought here because the disclosures warned us of the airport but told us that there was a VNAP in place and that planes did not fly over our neighborhoods!! My neighborhood was NOT in the flight path and it stated that in the sales office. In fact, we considered buying in Rancho Carrillo but felt the planes might fly over that area so did not buy there. Furthermore, at the time the airport was so small and we were told it could not expand.
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
The reason our group talks about the quiet hours is because of the absence of people in the control tower during those times, which we feel is a safety issue. I am not complaining about the noise.
If you do your research you will discover that the accident rate at Palomar is scary:
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location
Incidents
Fatalities
operations*
Palomar Airport, Carlsbad CA
16
13
215,000
John Wayne, Santa Ana, CA
8
0
334,000
Lindberg, San Diego, CA
10
1
227,000
Los Angeles, CA
26
8
506,000
Naples, FL
10
1
132,000
Van Nuys, CA
15
3
504,000
I feel no need to elaborate further.
January 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM #330372GuestI bought here because the disclosures warned us of the airport but told us that there was a VNAP in place and that planes did not fly over our neighborhoods!! My neighborhood was NOT in the flight path and it stated that in the sales office. In fact, we considered buying in Rancho Carrillo but felt the planes might fly over that area so did not buy there. Furthermore, at the time the airport was so small and we were told it could not expand.
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
The reason our group talks about the quiet hours is because of the absence of people in the control tower during those times, which we feel is a safety issue. I am not complaining about the noise.
If you do your research you will discover that the accident rate at Palomar is scary:
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location
Incidents
Fatalities
operations*
Palomar Airport, Carlsbad CA
16
13
215,000
John Wayne, Santa Ana, CA
8
0
334,000
Lindberg, San Diego, CA
10
1
227,000
Los Angeles, CA
26
8
506,000
Naples, FL
10
1
132,000
Van Nuys, CA
15
3
504,000
I feel no need to elaborate further.
January 16, 2009 at 11:16 AM #330456GuestI bought here because the disclosures warned us of the airport but told us that there was a VNAP in place and that planes did not fly over our neighborhoods!! My neighborhood was NOT in the flight path and it stated that in the sales office. In fact, we considered buying in Rancho Carrillo but felt the planes might fly over that area so did not buy there. Furthermore, at the time the airport was so small and we were told it could not expand.
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
The reason our group talks about the quiet hours is because of the absence of people in the control tower during those times, which we feel is a safety issue. I am not complaining about the noise.
If you do your research you will discover that the accident rate at Palomar is scary:
NTSB Tracking of Aircraft incidents – Calendar years 2000-2008
Apx annual
Location
Incidents
Fatalities
operations*
Palomar Airport, Carlsbad CA
16
13
215,000
John Wayne, Santa Ana, CA
8
0
334,000
Lindberg, San Diego, CA
10
1
227,000
Los Angeles, CA
26
8
506,000
Naples, FL
10
1
132,000
Van Nuys, CA
15
3
504,000
I feel no need to elaborate further.
January 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM #329948
CoronitaParticipant[quote=jiggy]
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
[/quote]I don’t think that there was an initial assumption questioning you intentionally put your children in harms way initially.
But if you think it is a such a huge safety issue right now, why don’t you move?
You said it yourself, you could probably sell the home for twice as much as what you what you paid for. Assuming you didn’t heloc the heck out of your home. Why not sell it and rent, cash in the profit, and temporarily rent somewhere where it is safer if your family’s safety is really at risk?
Seems like a no brainer then to stay and take any chances on getting issues resolved that may take years…
January 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM #330286CoronitaParticipant[quote=jiggy]
For you to assume that I would put my children in danger is ludicrous. The problems with the planes flying over our neighborhood really just got bad within the last two years. Before that it did not bother us. Believe me, if I could afford to move I would. I downsized to buy this home–now it would still cost twice what I paid for it to buy it and anything else is more expensive.
[/quote]I don’t think that there was an initial assumption questioning you intentionally put your children in harms way initially.
But if you think it is a such a huge safety issue right now, why don’t you move?
You said it yourself, you could probably sell the home for twice as much as what you what you paid for. Assuming you didn’t heloc the heck out of your home. Why not sell it and rent, cash in the profit, and temporarily rent somewhere where it is safer if your family’s safety is really at risk?
Seems like a no brainer then to stay and take any chances on getting issues resolved that may take years…
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