How to Buy w/out a Realtor?

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]

Captcha,
I find it interesting that both agents were obstacles and would love to hear why. I also wonder if you are focussing on a small detail that pissed you off and actually had a pretty good trouble free experience. I see this all the time where agents get blamed for minor issues the buyer isnt happy with and completely overlook the 90%+ of the transaction that went well.
[/quote]

There was no transaction to begin with, so this does not apply. If a buyer has an agent the buyer robs the listing agent of the opportunity to earn more and in today’s market listing agents for competitively priced properties know that a double-dip opportunity will present itself quickly.

I made several direct offers (i.e. offers where the listing agent doubled as my agent) and several through a couple of buyers agents. The response to the offers made through my agent were “that is too low”, “we already have gazillion higher offers”, “we are taking backup offers only”, etc… listing agents would never call back when the house falls out of escrow or the asking price is lowered. ‘My’ agents were generally unenthusiastic and getting them to submit an offer for me was pain. I saw houses sold for less than what I offered. Or for less than what I was ready to offer as my ‘best and final’ (and I would make that amount known to my agent).

After about a year (two agents, 6 months contract with both) I changed the game plan. I would call the listing agent as soon as the listing pops up on sdlookup, tell them I have no agent and ask them if they can write an offer for me.

The listing agents were much more enthusiastic when contacted directly. Their mood would get even better if I’d tell them that I have 20%+ down, good credit, but no recent pre-approval. Each had a really good and reliable mortgage broker who can take care of that little detail without needing anything from me. They would give me the code to get in. I did that five or six times and not one refused to deal with me.

The change was dramatic. Instead of dealing with two indolent agents I got to deal with one very agile agent.

I noticed a pattern, they would work with me on the day one, but then lose interest after few hours. I assume they got another ‘agentless’ buyer willing to pay more. Some would call back to tell me that. They call when escrow falls through. One guy from Temecula called when he got another property in San Diego.

Once I got my offer accepted everything went smooth. I used the Internet to find home inspector, loan, etc… when I needed someone to hold my hand and tell me it will be ok I posted a question here and you told me it will be ok.

[quote=sdrealtor]
Also re-read BG’s post and understand what she wrote is the preface, not even the first chapter of a very long book of what can and often does go wrong.
[/quote]

I did. Again, she speaks in general terms and says nothing concrete. The transaction involves too many people and buyer’s agent is a position ripe for termination.

The comps are equally available to you and me.
Home inspector will tell me if there is a major issue with the house.
My lender will not underwrite the loan if the paperwork is not in order or if the house does not appraise.
The insurance won’t insure if there is a problem with the house.
I am supposed to do my own research, verify everything, etc (buyer beware, no?)
If I need additional help I can get an attorney to verify the paperwork for few billable hours.

So where is the concrete added value worth 3% of the transaction?
It made sense 15 years ago with dramatically uneven distribution of information. But today it is just an artifact of the past.

[quote=sdrealtor]
You do have a remedy against an ignorant or malicious agent and just have to be willing to fight the battle for that remedy. The thread on recent on RE Ethics is a perfect example. In CA they would have a slam dunk winning case.
[/quote]

There were a few threads where people who felt they have been screwed complained about it. The consensus was that it’s not worth fighting over. Just look at the famous Bressi Ranch agent who’s now an elected official. An agent has to be very dumb and very greedy to get himself in a position where it makes sense for you to sue if you are not a lawyer.

[quote=sdrealtor]
The bottomline is lots of folks can get through a transaction without proper representation and do great. The problem is enough get screwed and getting screwed can ruin your life. I couldnt put my finger on the odds but the bottom line is what your risk tolerance is.[/quote]

There is no guarantee that you won’t be screwed if you do use an agent. Plenty of stories like that.

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]
You are assuming the buyer’s agent even knows about aimloan.com. [/quote]
Well, if I know about aimloan.com and similar and the buyer’s agent does not then maybe the agent is not worth the money and should instead find less intellectually challenging occupation 🙂

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]
You are assuming the buyer’s agent even knows about aimloan.com. [/quote]
Well, if I know about aimloan.com and similar and the buyer’s agent does not then maybe the agent is not worth the money and should instead find less intellectually challenging occupation 🙂

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]
You are assuming the buyer’s agent even knows about aimloan.com. [/quote]
Well, if I know about aimloan.com and similar and the buyer’s agent does not then maybe the agent is not worth the money and should instead find less intellectually challenging occupation 🙂

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]
You are assuming the buyer’s agent even knows about aimloan.com. [/quote]
Well, if I know about aimloan.com and similar and the buyer’s agent does not then maybe the agent is not worth the money and should instead find less intellectually challenging occupation 🙂

[all]

[quote=sdrealtor]
You are assuming the buyer’s agent even knows about aimloan.com. [/quote]
Well, if I know about aimloan.com and similar and the buyer’s agent does not then maybe the agent is not worth the money and should instead find less intellectually challenging occupation 🙂

[all]

[quote=bearishgurl]
captcha, that is the purpose of agents/brokers carrying E & O insurance. It is required on every brokered transaction, on each side. If you, as a seller or buyer, later sue your broker for damages inflicted upon you due to your agent’s neglect, lack of oversight and/or incompetency, for instance, their E & O policy will pay to defend the suit and/or pay your award, along with any culpable brokers, if you prevail in court.
[/quote]

All you need to do is pay an attorney to litigate and win after you sign a release of liability put together by association of realtors.

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you represent yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself.
[/quote]

Well, you can go with the listing agent and get the same legal protection, no?

[quote=bearishgurl]
If your buyer’s agent INSISTS you use his “buddy mortgage broker,” this is a violation of RESPA and they can be disciplined by the DRE if a complaint is filed and it is later determined that your agent took any kind of “kickback” from the successful origination of your mortgage loan after sending you to a particular mortgage broker, banker or direct lender.

captcha, you are always free, as a buyer, to use whichever lender you desire, even in purchasing new construction. It is legal to offer incentives to entice a buyer to use a certain lender but it is NOT legal to force them to use a certain lender or reject an already-accepted offer because the buyer will not use a certain lender. The buyer always has the final say in which lender they will use.[/quote]

I know that. That info might have been valuable and differentiating factor years ago, but today everyone with Internet access can learn that while taking a piss.

[all]

[quote=bearishgurl]
captcha, that is the purpose of agents/brokers carrying E & O insurance. It is required on every brokered transaction, on each side. If you, as a seller or buyer, later sue your broker for damages inflicted upon you due to your agent’s neglect, lack of oversight and/or incompetency, for instance, their E & O policy will pay to defend the suit and/or pay your award, along with any culpable brokers, if you prevail in court.
[/quote]

All you need to do is pay an attorney to litigate and win after you sign a release of liability put together by association of realtors.

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you represent yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself.
[/quote]

Well, you can go with the listing agent and get the same legal protection, no?

[quote=bearishgurl]
If your buyer’s agent INSISTS you use his “buddy mortgage broker,” this is a violation of RESPA and they can be disciplined by the DRE if a complaint is filed and it is later determined that your agent took any kind of “kickback” from the successful origination of your mortgage loan after sending you to a particular mortgage broker, banker or direct lender.

captcha, you are always free, as a buyer, to use whichever lender you desire, even in purchasing new construction. It is legal to offer incentives to entice a buyer to use a certain lender but it is NOT legal to force them to use a certain lender or reject an already-accepted offer because the buyer will not use a certain lender. The buyer always has the final say in which lender they will use.[/quote]

I know that. That info might have been valuable and differentiating factor years ago, but today everyone with Internet access can learn that while taking a piss.

[all]

[quote=bearishgurl]
captcha, that is the purpose of agents/brokers carrying E & O insurance. It is required on every brokered transaction, on each side. If you, as a seller or buyer, later sue your broker for damages inflicted upon you due to your agent’s neglect, lack of oversight and/or incompetency, for instance, their E & O policy will pay to defend the suit and/or pay your award, along with any culpable brokers, if you prevail in court.
[/quote]

All you need to do is pay an attorney to litigate and win after you sign a release of liability put together by association of realtors.

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you represent yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself.
[/quote]

Well, you can go with the listing agent and get the same legal protection, no?

[quote=bearishgurl]
If your buyer’s agent INSISTS you use his “buddy mortgage broker,” this is a violation of RESPA and they can be disciplined by the DRE if a complaint is filed and it is later determined that your agent took any kind of “kickback” from the successful origination of your mortgage loan after sending you to a particular mortgage broker, banker or direct lender.

captcha, you are always free, as a buyer, to use whichever lender you desire, even in purchasing new construction. It is legal to offer incentives to entice a buyer to use a certain lender but it is NOT legal to force them to use a certain lender or reject an already-accepted offer because the buyer will not use a certain lender. The buyer always has the final say in which lender they will use.[/quote]

I know that. That info might have been valuable and differentiating factor years ago, but today everyone with Internet access can learn that while taking a piss.

[all]

[quote=bearishgurl]
captcha, that is the purpose of agents/brokers carrying E & O insurance. It is required on every brokered transaction, on each side. If you, as a seller or buyer, later sue your broker for damages inflicted upon you due to your agent’s neglect, lack of oversight and/or incompetency, for instance, their E & O policy will pay to defend the suit and/or pay your award, along with any culpable brokers, if you prevail in court.
[/quote]

All you need to do is pay an attorney to litigate and win after you sign a release of liability put together by association of realtors.

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you represent yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself.
[/quote]

Well, you can go with the listing agent and get the same legal protection, no?

[quote=bearishgurl]
If your buyer’s agent INSISTS you use his “buddy mortgage broker,” this is a violation of RESPA and they can be disciplined by the DRE if a complaint is filed and it is later determined that your agent took any kind of “kickback” from the successful origination of your mortgage loan after sending you to a particular mortgage broker, banker or direct lender.

captcha, you are always free, as a buyer, to use whichever lender you desire, even in purchasing new construction. It is legal to offer incentives to entice a buyer to use a certain lender but it is NOT legal to force them to use a certain lender or reject an already-accepted offer because the buyer will not use a certain lender. The buyer always has the final say in which lender they will use.[/quote]

I know that. That info might have been valuable and differentiating factor years ago, but today everyone with Internet access can learn that while taking a piss.

[all]

[quote=bearishgurl]
captcha, that is the purpose of agents/brokers carrying E & O insurance. It is required on every brokered transaction, on each side. If you, as a seller or buyer, later sue your broker for damages inflicted upon you due to your agent’s neglect, lack of oversight and/or incompetency, for instance, their E & O policy will pay to defend the suit and/or pay your award, along with any culpable brokers, if you prevail in court.
[/quote]

All you need to do is pay an attorney to litigate and win after you sign a release of liability put together by association of realtors.

[quote=bearishgurl]
If you represent yourself, you have no one to blame but yourself.
[/quote]

Well, you can go with the listing agent and get the same legal protection, no?

[quote=bearishgurl]
If your buyer’s agent INSISTS you use his “buddy mortgage broker,” this is a violation of RESPA and they can be disciplined by the DRE if a complaint is filed and it is later determined that your agent took any kind of “kickback” from the successful origination of your mortgage loan after sending you to a particular mortgage broker, banker or direct lender.

captcha, you are always free, as a buyer, to use whichever lender you desire, even in purchasing new construction. It is legal to offer incentives to entice a buyer to use a certain lender but it is NOT legal to force them to use a certain lender or reject an already-accepted offer because the buyer will not use a certain lender. The buyer always has the final say in which lender they will use.[/quote]

I know that. That info might have been valuable and differentiating factor years ago, but today everyone with Internet access can learn that while taking a piss.

[matt-waiting]

captcha hit the nail on the head.

If I can negotiate a 2% rebate from the seller’s agent, look at a home inspection report, do my own comps, negotiate my own loan, and talk to an attorney for an hour, I don’t see the downside.

I also find it troubling that when asked to justify the value of a buyer’s agent, all I get in return is vague threats of “the risks are too great.” Seems like a scare tactic to me.

On the other hand, maybe captcha and I are wrong and there are dozens of examples of a buyer getting screwed because he went with the seller’s agent. If we are, I would think there would be lots of stories of how a buyer’s agent saved the buyer money (that they would have lost if they weren’t there. Sorry, I would have asked to have the furnace fixed.)

[matt-waiting]

captcha hit the nail on the head.

If I can negotiate a 2% rebate from the seller’s agent, look at a home inspection report, do my own comps, negotiate my own loan, and talk to an attorney for an hour, I don’t see the downside.

I also find it troubling that when asked to justify the value of a buyer’s agent, all I get in return is vague threats of “the risks are too great.” Seems like a scare tactic to me.

On the other hand, maybe captcha and I are wrong and there are dozens of examples of a buyer getting screwed because he went with the seller’s agent. If we are, I would think there would be lots of stories of how a buyer’s agent saved the buyer money (that they would have lost if they weren’t there. Sorry, I would have asked to have the furnace fixed.)

[matt-waiting]

captcha hit the nail on the head.

If I can negotiate a 2% rebate from the seller’s agent, look at a home inspection report, do my own comps, negotiate my own loan, and talk to an attorney for an hour, I don’t see the downside.

I also find it troubling that when asked to justify the value of a buyer’s agent, all I get in return is vague threats of “the risks are too great.” Seems like a scare tactic to me.

On the other hand, maybe captcha and I are wrong and there are dozens of examples of a buyer getting screwed because he went with the seller’s agent. If we are, I would think there would be lots of stories of how a buyer’s agent saved the buyer money (that they would have lost if they weren’t there. Sorry, I would have asked to have the furnace fixed.)

[matt-waiting]

captcha hit the nail on the head.

If I can negotiate a 2% rebate from the seller’s agent, look at a home inspection report, do my own comps, negotiate my own loan, and talk to an attorney for an hour, I don’t see the downside.

I also find it troubling that when asked to justify the value of a buyer’s agent, all I get in return is vague threats of “the risks are too great.” Seems like a scare tactic to me.

On the other hand, maybe captcha and I are wrong and there are dozens of examples of a buyer getting screwed because he went with the seller’s agent. If we are, I would think there would be lots of stories of how a buyer’s agent saved the buyer money (that they would have lost if they weren’t there. Sorry, I would have asked to have the furnace fixed.)

[Author]

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