Great Youtube Clip…

[cr]

I think the course this thread has taken is indicative of the negative effect partisan politics has.

With but a very few exceptions our political leaders are incompetent embeciles.

Knowing that, the housing bubble should have been prevented by people realizing they can’t afford (and therefore shouldn’t buy) a house if you have to sell it when the full payments kick in. Plenty of us here figured that out, is that too much to expect?

Blame the polticians all you want (and I do too), but for decades now people have been trained to be stupid and not held accountable for their actions.

That’s as much a cultural movement as a political one, and equally at fault for this entire mess.

[CA renter]

What we had is a confluence of events that worked to fuel the credit bubble.

From Glass-Steagall to the CRA programs to the GSE’s control of Congress (who wrongly slammed OFHEO/Armando Falcon who was doing his job) to Greenspan’s ultra-low interest rates to the elimination of the 30-year bond to the determination of the American people to hold onto a lifestyle that their stagnant/declining wages could no longer afford (thanks to globalization).

I am one of the greatest critics of George Bush, but he is not the only guilty party in this mess. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty.

Also, the GSEs were under the gun in 2003/2004 and actually pulled back their lending while the private market took off. Most of the really bad mortgages were originated by and sold to private entities, not GSEs. The GSEs got more involved again near the end of the bubble (2007) as the legislators and other guilty parties saw the writing on the wall…and wanted to off-load their bad debt onto the GSEs by refinancing people into their loans (also FHA). EVERYBODY was complicit in this mess.

Note, we already have “bailed out” the GSEs. The current bailout plan (and more that will be forthcoming) is to save the private entities, not the GSEs.

[CA renter]

What we had is a confluence of events that worked to fuel the credit bubble.

From Glass-Steagall to the CRA programs to the GSE’s control of Congress (who wrongly slammed OFHEO/Armando Falcon who was doing his job) to Greenspan’s ultra-low interest rates to the elimination of the 30-year bond to the determination of the American people to hold onto a lifestyle that their stagnant/declining wages could no longer afford (thanks to globalization).

I am one of the greatest critics of George Bush, but he is not the only guilty party in this mess. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty.

Also, the GSEs were under the gun in 2003/2004 and actually pulled back their lending while the private market took off. Most of the really bad mortgages were originated by and sold to private entities, not GSEs. The GSEs got more involved again near the end of the bubble (2007) as the legislators and other guilty parties saw the writing on the wall…and wanted to off-load their bad debt onto the GSEs by refinancing people into their loans (also FHA). EVERYBODY was complicit in this mess.

Note, we already have “bailed out” the GSEs. The current bailout plan (and more that will be forthcoming) is to save the private entities, not the GSEs.

[CA renter]

What we had is a confluence of events that worked to fuel the credit bubble.

From Glass-Steagall to the CRA programs to the GSE’s control of Congress (who wrongly slammed OFHEO/Armando Falcon who was doing his job) to Greenspan’s ultra-low interest rates to the elimination of the 30-year bond to the determination of the American people to hold onto a lifestyle that their stagnant/declining wages could no longer afford (thanks to globalization).

I am one of the greatest critics of George Bush, but he is not the only guilty party in this mess. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty.

Also, the GSEs were under the gun in 2003/2004 and actually pulled back their lending while the private market took off. Most of the really bad mortgages were originated by and sold to private entities, not GSEs. The GSEs got more involved again near the end of the bubble (2007) as the legislators and other guilty parties saw the writing on the wall…and wanted to off-load their bad debt onto the GSEs by refinancing people into their loans (also FHA). EVERYBODY was complicit in this mess.

Note, we already have “bailed out” the GSEs. The current bailout plan (and more that will be forthcoming) is to save the private entities, not the GSEs.

[CA renter]

What we had is a confluence of events that worked to fuel the credit bubble.

From Glass-Steagall to the CRA programs to the GSE’s control of Congress (who wrongly slammed OFHEO/Armando Falcon who was doing his job) to Greenspan’s ultra-low interest rates to the elimination of the 30-year bond to the determination of the American people to hold onto a lifestyle that their stagnant/declining wages could no longer afford (thanks to globalization).

I am one of the greatest critics of George Bush, but he is not the only guilty party in this mess. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty.

Also, the GSEs were under the gun in 2003/2004 and actually pulled back their lending while the private market took off. Most of the really bad mortgages were originated by and sold to private entities, not GSEs. The GSEs got more involved again near the end of the bubble (2007) as the legislators and other guilty parties saw the writing on the wall…and wanted to off-load their bad debt onto the GSEs by refinancing people into their loans (also FHA). EVERYBODY was complicit in this mess.

Note, we already have “bailed out” the GSEs. The current bailout plan (and more that will be forthcoming) is to save the private entities, not the GSEs.

[CA renter]

What we had is a confluence of events that worked to fuel the credit bubble.

From Glass-Steagall to the CRA programs to the GSE’s control of Congress (who wrongly slammed OFHEO/Armando Falcon who was doing his job) to Greenspan’s ultra-low interest rates to the elimination of the 30-year bond to the determination of the American people to hold onto a lifestyle that their stagnant/declining wages could no longer afford (thanks to globalization).

I am one of the greatest critics of George Bush, but he is not the only guilty party in this mess. Both Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty.

Also, the GSEs were under the gun in 2003/2004 and actually pulled back their lending while the private market took off. Most of the really bad mortgages were originated by and sold to private entities, not GSEs. The GSEs got more involved again near the end of the bubble (2007) as the legislators and other guilty parties saw the writing on the wall…and wanted to off-load their bad debt onto the GSEs by refinancing people into their loans (also FHA). EVERYBODY was complicit in this mess.

Note, we already have “bailed out” the GSEs. The current bailout plan (and more that will be forthcoming) is to save the private entities, not the GSEs.

[Arraya]

Blame the polticians all you want (and I do too), but for decades now people have been trained to be stupid and not held accountable for their actions.

You are 100% correct. However, this whole thing was enabled and encouraged by the Fed, USG both sides and pushed by the bought and paid for media.

I’m all for personal responsibility but when you have every institution pushing irresponsibility it’s time to say enough.

Heck, I’d like to see the statistics on the people walking away. What percent are truly the ones who could not afford and should not have bought and who are the ones that are being personally responsible by walking away from a bad deal. I’d bet there are more of the latter I know two personally.

My point being. The whole thing was pumped up by all the supposedly responsible institutions and pushed people into bad deals. So lets not assign but a small portion of the blame to minute fraction of people that really could not afford what they were buying. The vast majority of our anger should be directed at the leadership or lack there of.

When you have a countries financial institutions run by grifters what do you expect to happen? Who is in charge the banks or the politicians?

[Arraya]

Blame the polticians all you want (and I do too), but for decades now people have been trained to be stupid and not held accountable for their actions.

You are 100% correct. However, this whole thing was enabled and encouraged by the Fed, USG both sides and pushed by the bought and paid for media.

I’m all for personal responsibility but when you have every institution pushing irresponsibility it’s time to say enough.

Heck, I’d like to see the statistics on the people walking away. What percent are truly the ones who could not afford and should not have bought and who are the ones that are being personally responsible by walking away from a bad deal. I’d bet there are more of the latter I know two personally.

My point being. The whole thing was pumped up by all the supposedly responsible institutions and pushed people into bad deals. So lets not assign but a small portion of the blame to minute fraction of people that really could not afford what they were buying. The vast majority of our anger should be directed at the leadership or lack there of.

When you have a countries financial institutions run by grifters what do you expect to happen? Who is in charge the banks or the politicians?

[Arraya]

Blame the polticians all you want (and I do too), but for decades now people have been trained to be stupid and not held accountable for their actions.

You are 100% correct. However, this whole thing was enabled and encouraged by the Fed, USG both sides and pushed by the bought and paid for media.

I’m all for personal responsibility but when you have every institution pushing irresponsibility it’s time to say enough.

Heck, I’d like to see the statistics on the people walking away. What percent are truly the ones who could not afford and should not have bought and who are the ones that are being personally responsible by walking away from a bad deal. I’d bet there are more of the latter I know two personally.

My point being. The whole thing was pumped up by all the supposedly responsible institutions and pushed people into bad deals. So lets not assign but a small portion of the blame to minute fraction of people that really could not afford what they were buying. The vast majority of our anger should be directed at the leadership or lack there of.

When you have a countries financial institutions run by grifters what do you expect to happen? Who is in charge the banks or the politicians?

[Arraya]

Blame the polticians all you want (and I do too), but for decades now people have been trained to be stupid and not held accountable for their actions.

You are 100% correct. However, this whole thing was enabled and encouraged by the Fed, USG both sides and pushed by the bought and paid for media.

I’m all for personal responsibility but when you have every institution pushing irresponsibility it’s time to say enough.

Heck, I’d like to see the statistics on the people walking away. What percent are truly the ones who could not afford and should not have bought and who are the ones that are being personally responsible by walking away from a bad deal. I’d bet there are more of the latter I know two personally.

My point being. The whole thing was pumped up by all the supposedly responsible institutions and pushed people into bad deals. So lets not assign but a small portion of the blame to minute fraction of people that really could not afford what they were buying. The vast majority of our anger should be directed at the leadership or lack there of.

When you have a countries financial institutions run by grifters what do you expect to happen? Who is in charge the banks or the politicians?

[Arraya]

Blame the polticians all you want (and I do too), but for decades now people have been trained to be stupid and not held accountable for their actions.

You are 100% correct. However, this whole thing was enabled and encouraged by the Fed, USG both sides and pushed by the bought and paid for media.

I’m all for personal responsibility but when you have every institution pushing irresponsibility it’s time to say enough.

Heck, I’d like to see the statistics on the people walking away. What percent are truly the ones who could not afford and should not have bought and who are the ones that are being personally responsible by walking away from a bad deal. I’d bet there are more of the latter I know two personally.

My point being. The whole thing was pumped up by all the supposedly responsible institutions and pushed people into bad deals. So lets not assign but a small portion of the blame to minute fraction of people that really could not afford what they were buying. The vast majority of our anger should be directed at the leadership or lack there of.

When you have a countries financial institutions run by grifters what do you expect to happen? Who is in charge the banks or the politicians?

[yojimbo]

I place 100% of the blame on the people.

100%

You can blame the “leaders” but you have a choice to follow a leader or not to.

You can blame politicians but who elects the politicians? Do not play the game of moral equivalency between the two parties.

You can blame “predatory lending” but who walks into the bank to get a loan?

You can blame greedy corp’s and CEO’s but who is feeding them the $ to fuel their greed?

All I’ve seen for the last 20 years has been a general public dead set on “acquiring” everything they perceive others as having whether they be fictional tv characters, blinged up celebrities, or their neighbors that just got that Escalade and tropical pool installed.

Nearly every single home purchase I look at shows multiple re-finances over the last 5 or 6 years with equity being pulled out every single time. For what? I guess it takes a lot of $ to keep up with the Jone’s these days.

This society succumbing to the marketing blitzkrieg through tv, music, celebs,neighbors, news, etc. is pathetic and it is our own fault for believing all the slop that is fed to us as reality. How many shows sprang up hyping how to get rich flipping property in the last 5 years? Some of the late night ads regarding real estate wealth were so stupid it was laughable yet those advertisers made money, and lots of it, catering to people who had the need to become instantaneously rich in the easiest possible manner.

So, I don’t blame politicians or CEO’s. They are just like everyone else except that they operate on a larger scale. If a corrupt janitor works his way up to the CEO position he will be a corrupt CEO.

I know many on this board hold themselves responsible for their actions and I am grateful that there are still some who value that principle. Unfortunately it is a dwindling minority.

In my opinion if you want to place blame on all of this mess, and the myriad others that are going to follow, quit engaging in kindergarten-like arguments about Bush and the Democrats or Republicans and go find yourself a mirror.

[yojimbo]

I place 100% of the blame on the people.

100%

You can blame the “leaders” but you have a choice to follow a leader or not to.

You can blame politicians but who elects the politicians? Do not play the game of moral equivalency between the two parties.

You can blame “predatory lending” but who walks into the bank to get a loan?

You can blame greedy corp’s and CEO’s but who is feeding them the $ to fuel their greed?

All I’ve seen for the last 20 years has been a general public dead set on “acquiring” everything they perceive others as having whether they be fictional tv characters, blinged up celebrities, or their neighbors that just got that Escalade and tropical pool installed.

Nearly every single home purchase I look at shows multiple re-finances over the last 5 or 6 years with equity being pulled out every single time. For what? I guess it takes a lot of $ to keep up with the Jone’s these days.

This society succumbing to the marketing blitzkrieg through tv, music, celebs,neighbors, news, etc. is pathetic and it is our own fault for believing all the slop that is fed to us as reality. How many shows sprang up hyping how to get rich flipping property in the last 5 years? Some of the late night ads regarding real estate wealth were so stupid it was laughable yet those advertisers made money, and lots of it, catering to people who had the need to become instantaneously rich in the easiest possible manner.

So, I don’t blame politicians or CEO’s. They are just like everyone else except that they operate on a larger scale. If a corrupt janitor works his way up to the CEO position he will be a corrupt CEO.

I know many on this board hold themselves responsible for their actions and I am grateful that there are still some who value that principle. Unfortunately it is a dwindling minority.

In my opinion if you want to place blame on all of this mess, and the myriad others that are going to follow, quit engaging in kindergarten-like arguments about Bush and the Democrats or Republicans and go find yourself a mirror.

[yojimbo]

I place 100% of the blame on the people.

100%

You can blame the “leaders” but you have a choice to follow a leader or not to.

You can blame politicians but who elects the politicians? Do not play the game of moral equivalency between the two parties.

You can blame “predatory lending” but who walks into the bank to get a loan?

You can blame greedy corp’s and CEO’s but who is feeding them the $ to fuel their greed?

All I’ve seen for the last 20 years has been a general public dead set on “acquiring” everything they perceive others as having whether they be fictional tv characters, blinged up celebrities, or their neighbors that just got that Escalade and tropical pool installed.

Nearly every single home purchase I look at shows multiple re-finances over the last 5 or 6 years with equity being pulled out every single time. For what? I guess it takes a lot of $ to keep up with the Jone’s these days.

This society succumbing to the marketing blitzkrieg through tv, music, celebs,neighbors, news, etc. is pathetic and it is our own fault for believing all the slop that is fed to us as reality. How many shows sprang up hyping how to get rich flipping property in the last 5 years? Some of the late night ads regarding real estate wealth were so stupid it was laughable yet those advertisers made money, and lots of it, catering to people who had the need to become instantaneously rich in the easiest possible manner.

So, I don’t blame politicians or CEO’s. They are just like everyone else except that they operate on a larger scale. If a corrupt janitor works his way up to the CEO position he will be a corrupt CEO.

I know many on this board hold themselves responsible for their actions and I am grateful that there are still some who value that principle. Unfortunately it is a dwindling minority.

In my opinion if you want to place blame on all of this mess, and the myriad others that are going to follow, quit engaging in kindergarten-like arguments about Bush and the Democrats or Republicans and go find yourself a mirror.

[yojimbo]

I place 100% of the blame on the people.

100%

You can blame the “leaders” but you have a choice to follow a leader or not to.

You can blame politicians but who elects the politicians? Do not play the game of moral equivalency between the two parties.

You can blame “predatory lending” but who walks into the bank to get a loan?

You can blame greedy corp’s and CEO’s but who is feeding them the $ to fuel their greed?

All I’ve seen for the last 20 years has been a general public dead set on “acquiring” everything they perceive others as having whether they be fictional tv characters, blinged up celebrities, or their neighbors that just got that Escalade and tropical pool installed.

Nearly every single home purchase I look at shows multiple re-finances over the last 5 or 6 years with equity being pulled out every single time. For what? I guess it takes a lot of $ to keep up with the Jone’s these days.

This society succumbing to the marketing blitzkrieg through tv, music, celebs,neighbors, news, etc. is pathetic and it is our own fault for believing all the slop that is fed to us as reality. How many shows sprang up hyping how to get rich flipping property in the last 5 years? Some of the late night ads regarding real estate wealth were so stupid it was laughable yet those advertisers made money, and lots of it, catering to people who had the need to become instantaneously rich in the easiest possible manner.

So, I don’t blame politicians or CEO’s. They are just like everyone else except that they operate on a larger scale. If a corrupt janitor works his way up to the CEO position he will be a corrupt CEO.

I know many on this board hold themselves responsible for their actions and I am grateful that there are still some who value that principle. Unfortunately it is a dwindling minority.

In my opinion if you want to place blame on all of this mess, and the myriad others that are going to follow, quit engaging in kindergarten-like arguments about Bush and the Democrats or Republicans and go find yourself a mirror.

[Author]

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