going broke on 300K/year

[scaredyclassic]

hard to know what marriage is like until you’ve actually done it.

i think the vast majority of people do not land where theyw ant to be.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world.

The best advice one could give young kids is to choose your partner wisely, paying special attention to their integrity, honesty, communication skills, and whether or not they are selfish or considerate.

Probably the biggest misconception out there is that you can lead two completely different lives and still have a **happy** marriage. Marriage is different from being single, and people need to be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make it work…because the end result will be something that is much greater and far better than what can be achieved as an individual, IMHO.[/quote]

50%+ of marriages end in divorce. Of the 50% that remain married, many remain so under duress – that is, it’s either too expensive or inconvenient to end the marriage. I’ve seen various surveys that suggest between 40% and 60% of married men have cheated on their wives. My suspicion is that majority of the remaining men are incapable of carrying on an affair for all sorts of reasons, which is why they don’t cheat. (To quote philosopher Chris Rock: “A man is only as faithful as his options.” Plenty of men simply don’t have good opportunities to be unfaithful.)

So, if you cull through the stats, I’d guess that maybe 10% of all married couples stay truly happy for long periods of time. Which, frankly, isn’t too bad given the constraints of the institution. But, let’s not kid ourselves – as you pointed out – marriage involves a lot of sacrifices. Most humans aren’t good with sacrifices – particularly those of the life-long variety – which is why marriage tends to disappoint.

So, when you say, “Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world,” I think in absolute numbers you’re right. There are a lot of married folks, after all. But in percentage terms it’s probably not that high. I know a lot of married men who would LOVE to get out of their marriages but it’s just too much hassle. And I’m sure their wives think everything’s hunky dory. They’re good actors.

Of course, a lot of one’s “happiness” in a marriage is determined by one’s core personality type. Many personality types – extraverts, for example – need someone around or they’re uneasy. Marriage is one solution to this need. Introverts, on the other hand, can find marriage a living hell. Having someone around all the time is a major drain. So, some of one’s happiness – or lack thereof – with marriage is already baked into the genetic cake.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I agree that the “exceedingly happy” couples are probably 10-25% of the total population that gets married (about 40-60% of couples that remained married their entire lives could probably be described as “happy” or “very happy” with their marriages, IMHO). A very large portion of the marriages with a cheating spouse would be included in the “divorced” category, so many of the remaining married people ARE faithful to one another.

You are also correct about personality types. They’ve done studies that show certain people are more positive and resilient than others, and this resilience benefits them in almost every way — jobs, marriages, friendships, etc. I’ve also seen the hell that exists when an introvert and extrovert marry (my parents). Not sure why some people were ever attracted to their partners, and I’m not talking about looks or money. Sometimes you just say “WTF????”.

Still, there are some people who should not be married (sounds like you’d wisely put yourself in this category), and some who would literally die without marriage. There is no one right answer. Thankfully, we are all different people, with different wants and needs.

TG is right. You’ll never convince me that marriage is a bad thing, and you’ll probably never be convinced that it can be the greatest blessing one can ever receive.

BTW, did you know that most divorces are initiated by women? More often than not, the guy is left stunned and dazed as his wife walks when the kids are grown. It’s not only men who dislike their marriages while the other spouse thinks everything is fine.

Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”

One important thing to note is that ALL marriages cycle through good and bad times. It’s unwise to assume that just because a couple is going through a rough time, they need to divorce. Oftentimes, the more adversity a couple faces and overcomes, the stronger the marriage can be, because they’ve proven to each other that they are loyal and committed to one another. This establishes the foundation for real trust, which is the bedrock of any happy marriage.

——————

An interesting study about staying in an “unhappy” marriage vs. divorce:

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.2

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world.

The best advice one could give young kids is to choose your partner wisely, paying special attention to their integrity, honesty, communication skills, and whether or not they are selfish or considerate.

Probably the biggest misconception out there is that you can lead two completely different lives and still have a **happy** marriage. Marriage is different from being single, and people need to be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make it work…because the end result will be something that is much greater and far better than what can be achieved as an individual, IMHO.[/quote]

50%+ of marriages end in divorce. Of the 50% that remain married, many remain so under duress – that is, it’s either too expensive or inconvenient to end the marriage. I’ve seen various surveys that suggest between 40% and 60% of married men have cheated on their wives. My suspicion is that majority of the remaining men are incapable of carrying on an affair for all sorts of reasons, which is why they don’t cheat. (To quote philosopher Chris Rock: “A man is only as faithful as his options.” Plenty of men simply don’t have good opportunities to be unfaithful.)

So, if you cull through the stats, I’d guess that maybe 10% of all married couples stay truly happy for long periods of time. Which, frankly, isn’t too bad given the constraints of the institution. But, let’s not kid ourselves – as you pointed out – marriage involves a lot of sacrifices. Most humans aren’t good with sacrifices – particularly those of the life-long variety – which is why marriage tends to disappoint.

So, when you say, “Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world,” I think in absolute numbers you’re right. There are a lot of married folks, after all. But in percentage terms it’s probably not that high. I know a lot of married men who would LOVE to get out of their marriages but it’s just too much hassle. And I’m sure their wives think everything’s hunky dory. They’re good actors.

Of course, a lot of one’s “happiness” in a marriage is determined by one’s core personality type. Many personality types – extraverts, for example – need someone around or they’re uneasy. Marriage is one solution to this need. Introverts, on the other hand, can find marriage a living hell. Having someone around all the time is a major drain. So, some of one’s happiness – or lack thereof – with marriage is already baked into the genetic cake.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I agree that the “exceedingly happy” couples are probably 10-25% of the total population that gets married (about 40-60% of couples that remained married their entire lives could probably be described as “happy” or “very happy” with their marriages, IMHO). A very large portion of the marriages with a cheating spouse would be included in the “divorced” category, so many of the remaining married people ARE faithful to one another.

You are also correct about personality types. They’ve done studies that show certain people are more positive and resilient than others, and this resilience benefits them in almost every way — jobs, marriages, friendships, etc. I’ve also seen the hell that exists when an introvert and extrovert marry (my parents). Not sure why some people were ever attracted to their partners, and I’m not talking about looks or money. Sometimes you just say “WTF????”.

Still, there are some people who should not be married (sounds like you’d wisely put yourself in this category), and some who would literally die without marriage. There is no one right answer. Thankfully, we are all different people, with different wants and needs.

TG is right. You’ll never convince me that marriage is a bad thing, and you’ll probably never be convinced that it can be the greatest blessing one can ever receive.

BTW, did you know that most divorces are initiated by women? More often than not, the guy is left stunned and dazed as his wife walks when the kids are grown. It’s not only men who dislike their marriages while the other spouse thinks everything is fine.

Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”

One important thing to note is that ALL marriages cycle through good and bad times. It’s unwise to assume that just because a couple is going through a rough time, they need to divorce. Oftentimes, the more adversity a couple faces and overcomes, the stronger the marriage can be, because they’ve proven to each other that they are loyal and committed to one another. This establishes the foundation for real trust, which is the bedrock of any happy marriage.

——————

An interesting study about staying in an “unhappy” marriage vs. divorce:

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.2

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world.

The best advice one could give young kids is to choose your partner wisely, paying special attention to their integrity, honesty, communication skills, and whether or not they are selfish or considerate.

Probably the biggest misconception out there is that you can lead two completely different lives and still have a **happy** marriage. Marriage is different from being single, and people need to be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make it work…because the end result will be something that is much greater and far better than what can be achieved as an individual, IMHO.[/quote]

50%+ of marriages end in divorce. Of the 50% that remain married, many remain so under duress – that is, it’s either too expensive or inconvenient to end the marriage. I’ve seen various surveys that suggest between 40% and 60% of married men have cheated on their wives. My suspicion is that majority of the remaining men are incapable of carrying on an affair for all sorts of reasons, which is why they don’t cheat. (To quote philosopher Chris Rock: “A man is only as faithful as his options.” Plenty of men simply don’t have good opportunities to be unfaithful.)

So, if you cull through the stats, I’d guess that maybe 10% of all married couples stay truly happy for long periods of time. Which, frankly, isn’t too bad given the constraints of the institution. But, let’s not kid ourselves – as you pointed out – marriage involves a lot of sacrifices. Most humans aren’t good with sacrifices – particularly those of the life-long variety – which is why marriage tends to disappoint.

So, when you say, “Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world,” I think in absolute numbers you’re right. There are a lot of married folks, after all. But in percentage terms it’s probably not that high. I know a lot of married men who would LOVE to get out of their marriages but it’s just too much hassle. And I’m sure their wives think everything’s hunky dory. They’re good actors.

Of course, a lot of one’s “happiness” in a marriage is determined by one’s core personality type. Many personality types – extraverts, for example – need someone around or they’re uneasy. Marriage is one solution to this need. Introverts, on the other hand, can find marriage a living hell. Having someone around all the time is a major drain. So, some of one’s happiness – or lack thereof – with marriage is already baked into the genetic cake.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I agree that the “exceedingly happy” couples are probably 10-25% of the total population that gets married (about 40-60% of couples that remained married their entire lives could probably be described as “happy” or “very happy” with their marriages, IMHO). A very large portion of the marriages with a cheating spouse would be included in the “divorced” category, so many of the remaining married people ARE faithful to one another.

You are also correct about personality types. They’ve done studies that show certain people are more positive and resilient than others, and this resilience benefits them in almost every way — jobs, marriages, friendships, etc. I’ve also seen the hell that exists when an introvert and extrovert marry (my parents). Not sure why some people were ever attracted to their partners, and I’m not talking about looks or money. Sometimes you just say “WTF????”.

Still, there are some people who should not be married (sounds like you’d wisely put yourself in this category), and some who would literally die without marriage. There is no one right answer. Thankfully, we are all different people, with different wants and needs.

TG is right. You’ll never convince me that marriage is a bad thing, and you’ll probably never be convinced that it can be the greatest blessing one can ever receive.

BTW, did you know that most divorces are initiated by women? More often than not, the guy is left stunned and dazed as his wife walks when the kids are grown. It’s not only men who dislike their marriages while the other spouse thinks everything is fine.

Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”

One important thing to note is that ALL marriages cycle through good and bad times. It’s unwise to assume that just because a couple is going through a rough time, they need to divorce. Oftentimes, the more adversity a couple faces and overcomes, the stronger the marriage can be, because they’ve proven to each other that they are loyal and committed to one another. This establishes the foundation for real trust, which is the bedrock of any happy marriage.

——————

An interesting study about staying in an “unhappy” marriage vs. divorce:

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.2

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world.

The best advice one could give young kids is to choose your partner wisely, paying special attention to their integrity, honesty, communication skills, and whether or not they are selfish or considerate.

Probably the biggest misconception out there is that you can lead two completely different lives and still have a **happy** marriage. Marriage is different from being single, and people need to be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make it work…because the end result will be something that is much greater and far better than what can be achieved as an individual, IMHO.[/quote]

50%+ of marriages end in divorce. Of the 50% that remain married, many remain so under duress – that is, it’s either too expensive or inconvenient to end the marriage. I’ve seen various surveys that suggest between 40% and 60% of married men have cheated on their wives. My suspicion is that majority of the remaining men are incapable of carrying on an affair for all sorts of reasons, which is why they don’t cheat. (To quote philosopher Chris Rock: “A man is only as faithful as his options.” Plenty of men simply don’t have good opportunities to be unfaithful.)

So, if you cull through the stats, I’d guess that maybe 10% of all married couples stay truly happy for long periods of time. Which, frankly, isn’t too bad given the constraints of the institution. But, let’s not kid ourselves – as you pointed out – marriage involves a lot of sacrifices. Most humans aren’t good with sacrifices – particularly those of the life-long variety – which is why marriage tends to disappoint.

So, when you say, “Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world,” I think in absolute numbers you’re right. There are a lot of married folks, after all. But in percentage terms it’s probably not that high. I know a lot of married men who would LOVE to get out of their marriages but it’s just too much hassle. And I’m sure their wives think everything’s hunky dory. They’re good actors.

Of course, a lot of one’s “happiness” in a marriage is determined by one’s core personality type. Many personality types – extraverts, for example – need someone around or they’re uneasy. Marriage is one solution to this need. Introverts, on the other hand, can find marriage a living hell. Having someone around all the time is a major drain. So, some of one’s happiness – or lack thereof – with marriage is already baked into the genetic cake.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I agree that the “exceedingly happy” couples are probably 10-25% of the total population that gets married (about 40-60% of couples that remained married their entire lives could probably be described as “happy” or “very happy” with their marriages, IMHO). A very large portion of the marriages with a cheating spouse would be included in the “divorced” category, so many of the remaining married people ARE faithful to one another.

You are also correct about personality types. They’ve done studies that show certain people are more positive and resilient than others, and this resilience benefits them in almost every way — jobs, marriages, friendships, etc. I’ve also seen the hell that exists when an introvert and extrovert marry (my parents). Not sure why some people were ever attracted to their partners, and I’m not talking about looks or money. Sometimes you just say “WTF????”.

Still, there are some people who should not be married (sounds like you’d wisely put yourself in this category), and some who would literally die without marriage. There is no one right answer. Thankfully, we are all different people, with different wants and needs.

TG is right. You’ll never convince me that marriage is a bad thing, and you’ll probably never be convinced that it can be the greatest blessing one can ever receive.

BTW, did you know that most divorces are initiated by women? More often than not, the guy is left stunned and dazed as his wife walks when the kids are grown. It’s not only men who dislike their marriages while the other spouse thinks everything is fine.

Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”

One important thing to note is that ALL marriages cycle through good and bad times. It’s unwise to assume that just because a couple is going through a rough time, they need to divorce. Oftentimes, the more adversity a couple faces and overcomes, the stronger the marriage can be, because they’ve proven to each other that they are loyal and committed to one another. This establishes the foundation for real trust, which is the bedrock of any happy marriage.

——————

An interesting study about staying in an “unhappy” marriage vs. divorce:

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.2

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

[CA renter]

[quote=davelj][quote=CA renter]
Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world.

The best advice one could give young kids is to choose your partner wisely, paying special attention to their integrity, honesty, communication skills, and whether or not they are selfish or considerate.

Probably the biggest misconception out there is that you can lead two completely different lives and still have a **happy** marriage. Marriage is different from being single, and people need to be prepared to make the sacrifices necessary to make it work…because the end result will be something that is much greater and far better than what can be achieved as an individual, IMHO.[/quote]

50%+ of marriages end in divorce. Of the 50% that remain married, many remain so under duress – that is, it’s either too expensive or inconvenient to end the marriage. I’ve seen various surveys that suggest between 40% and 60% of married men have cheated on their wives. My suspicion is that majority of the remaining men are incapable of carrying on an affair for all sorts of reasons, which is why they don’t cheat. (To quote philosopher Chris Rock: “A man is only as faithful as his options.” Plenty of men simply don’t have good opportunities to be unfaithful.)

So, if you cull through the stats, I’d guess that maybe 10% of all married couples stay truly happy for long periods of time. Which, frankly, isn’t too bad given the constraints of the institution. But, let’s not kid ourselves – as you pointed out – marriage involves a lot of sacrifices. Most humans aren’t good with sacrifices – particularly those of the life-long variety – which is why marriage tends to disappoint.

So, when you say, “Many people wouldn’t trade their marriages for anything in the world,” I think in absolute numbers you’re right. There are a lot of married folks, after all. But in percentage terms it’s probably not that high. I know a lot of married men who would LOVE to get out of their marriages but it’s just too much hassle. And I’m sure their wives think everything’s hunky dory. They’re good actors.

Of course, a lot of one’s “happiness” in a marriage is determined by one’s core personality type. Many personality types – extraverts, for example – need someone around or they’re uneasy. Marriage is one solution to this need. Introverts, on the other hand, can find marriage a living hell. Having someone around all the time is a major drain. So, some of one’s happiness – or lack thereof – with marriage is already baked into the genetic cake.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I agree that the “exceedingly happy” couples are probably 10-25% of the total population that gets married (about 40-60% of couples that remained married their entire lives could probably be described as “happy” or “very happy” with their marriages, IMHO). A very large portion of the marriages with a cheating spouse would be included in the “divorced” category, so many of the remaining married people ARE faithful to one another.

You are also correct about personality types. They’ve done studies that show certain people are more positive and resilient than others, and this resilience benefits them in almost every way — jobs, marriages, friendships, etc. I’ve also seen the hell that exists when an introvert and extrovert marry (my parents). Not sure why some people were ever attracted to their partners, and I’m not talking about looks or money. Sometimes you just say “WTF????”.

Still, there are some people who should not be married (sounds like you’d wisely put yourself in this category), and some who would literally die without marriage. There is no one right answer. Thankfully, we are all different people, with different wants and needs.

TG is right. You’ll never convince me that marriage is a bad thing, and you’ll probably never be convinced that it can be the greatest blessing one can ever receive.

BTW, did you know that most divorces are initiated by women? More often than not, the guy is left stunned and dazed as his wife walks when the kids are grown. It’s not only men who dislike their marriages while the other spouse thinks everything is fine.

Also, there is a significant number of desirable, married men who ARE faithful to their wives. I’ve met quite a few. It’s not all about “options.”

One important thing to note is that ALL marriages cycle through good and bad times. It’s unwise to assume that just because a couple is going through a rough time, they need to divorce. Oftentimes, the more adversity a couple faces and overcomes, the stronger the marriage can be, because they’ve proven to each other that they are loyal and committed to one another. This establishes the foundation for real trust, which is the bedrock of any happy marriage.

——————

An interesting study about staying in an “unhappy” marriage vs. divorce:

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.2

http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

[davelj]

[quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.

[davelj]

[quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.

[Author]

Posts