Entitlement mentality

[Coronita]

[quote=markmax33]
America’s engine is the small business and they don’t have stocks and aren’t manipulated or doing the manipulating. I was trying to make an everyday example of an everyday company that was cleaner than the others. Take everyday small businesses instead and then my point should be clear.[/quote]

mm33,

I don’t doubt you’re an intelligent person. But really, there is a huge difference between a small business that you describe an these blockbuster IPOs of these dazzling companies. Most of these companies would have no shot at making their splash if it weren’t for the leverage/influence/etc of the very big wall street companies that main street loves to rail again. These are the same firms, (albeit different departments) that main steet is so disgusted with in the bailouts that will make a killing on these IPOs. They have an entire sales team dedicated to pumping up these companies up so they can sell to everyone else and cash in.. Look at who’s underwriting Facebook… Same top 3 investment banks, some investment banks that got involved into commercial banking to take advantage of all the RE speculation, and where the same banks that underwrote the previous .com bubble companies. Everytime you buy a post-ipo share on the retail market, you are contributing to this very game that you otherwise rail against. There’s nothing wrong with that. But call it as it is…..

[no_such_reality]

Yes, Uncle Sugar put up the initial money that created much of Silicon Valley. They also funded numerous other lines of business.

That is what makes our current government spending so onerous. Not that they’re spending it but that it is getting sucked away in cronyism and corruption.

It is so onerous because it’s $1,000,000,000,000.00 more than we’re taking in. It is onerous because it is that same $1 Trillion dollar more than President Bill Clintons budget increased for inflation and population growth. If Bill’s last budget was scaled by inflation and population, it would be $2.7 Trillion today. We’re spending $3.7 this year. $3.8 last year. $3.6 the year before.

But it’s only a trillion. Well, the entire decade long moon program tallied in 1973 was $24.5 Billion. Scaled for inflation, about $120 Billion today. All ten years. All rocket purchases. All Nasa people. All facilities. All Landers. and all the technology.

In 2005, they re-examined and include all research and development costs and came up with $170 Billion, roughly $190 Billion today.

So that Trillion we’re blithely pissing away every year. That’s five decade long apollo moon programs from inception, through R&D to putting the people on the moon.

Five.

That’s one year of deficit spending. We’ve done three plus. And no it’s not the war, the war is only $100 Billion a year, the other $900 Billion is graft.

Imagine, 15 decade long Apollo Programs to research and improve whatever societal needs we have, like energy, global warming, the war on cancer. Not funding one year, all ten years. 15 full paid for programs.

Just flushed down the cronyism drain.

[markmax33]

[quote=flu][quote=markmax33]
America’s engine is the small business and they don’t have stocks and aren’t manipulated or doing the manipulating. I was trying to make an everyday example of an everyday company that was cleaner than the others. Take everyday small businesses instead and then my point should be clear.[/quote]

mm33,

I don’t doubt you’re an intelligent person. But really, there is a huge difference between a small business that you describe an these blockbuster IPOs of these dazzling companies. Most of these companies would have no shot at making their splash if it weren’t for the leverage/influence/etc of the very big wall street companies that main street loves to rail again. These are the same firms, (albeit different departments) that main steet is so disgusted with in the bailouts that will make a killing on these IPOs. They have an entire sales team dedicated to pumping up these companies up so they can sell to everyone else and cash in.. Look at who’s underwriting Facebook… Same top 3 investment banks, some investment banks that got involved into commercial banking to take advantage of all the RE speculation, and where the same banks that underwrote the previous .com bubble companies. Everytime you buy a post-ipo share on the retail market, you are contributing to this very game that you otherwise rail against. There’s nothing wrong with that. But call it as it is…..[/quote]

Again the initial point has been missed in like 40 posts now. There are companies that win through more manipulation than others. The more manipulative the more they should be taxed. They aren’t legitimate businesses. I have yet to see an explanation on how after the initial pump and dump you can’t reliably buy a good stock. They are pawns in the system. I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system. There are a number that show really good grwoth potential for years to come, not a ton of them, but there are some.

[blahblahblah]

[quote=markmax33]I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system.[/quote]

What do logarithms have to do with picking stocks?

[Coronita]

[quote=markmax33][quote=flu][quote=markmax33]
America’s engine is the small business and they don’t have stocks and aren’t manipulated or doing the manipulating. I was trying to make an everyday example of an everyday company that was cleaner than the others. Take everyday small businesses instead and then my point should be clear.[/quote]

mm33,

I don’t doubt you’re an intelligent person. But really, there is a huge difference between a small business that you describe an these blockbuster IPOs of these dazzling companies. Most of these companies would have no shot at making their splash if it weren’t for the leverage/influence/etc of the very big wall street companies that main street loves to rail again. These are the same firms, (albeit different departments) that main steet is so disgusted with in the bailouts that will make a killing on these IPOs. They have an entire sales team dedicated to pumping up these companies up so they can sell to everyone else and cash in.. Look at who’s underwriting Facebook… Same top 3 investment banks, some investment banks that got involved into commercial banking to take advantage of all the RE speculation, and where the same banks that underwrote the previous .com bubble companies. Everytime you buy a post-ipo share on the retail market, you are contributing to this very game that you otherwise rail against. There’s nothing wrong with that. But call it as it is…..[/quote]

Again the initial point has been missed in like 40 posts now. There are companies that win through more manipulation than others. The more manipulative the more they should be taxed. They aren’t legitimate businesses. I have yet to see an explanation on how after the initial pump and dump you can’t reliably buy a good stock. They are pawns in the system. I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system. There are a number that show really good grwoth potential for years to come, not a ton of them, but there are some.[/quote]

mm33,

You ever wonder why i-banks have so many “analysts” on cnbc/bloomberg/cnnfn/etc, with they buy/hold recommendations…. (Actually, come to think of it, until recently, have you ever wondered why you rarely have an analyst on a big firm ever put out a sell recommendation until recent times)… They are part of a sales team…
This sort of shinnegans goes on all the time long after an ipo…Look at the stock market these days. How much do stocks move based on speculation of the future put out by some of these ibanks versus real fundamentals of the company??? Really mm33, unless a stock is paying a hefty dividend, it’s pretty much gambling and speculation propped up by wall street and all the cronyism that comes with it. The only difference is what side of the fence you are on…the winning side or the screwed/to-be-screwed side.

[briansd1]

[quote=sreeb][quote=kcal09]Sooo…now we know that Mitt plays a mini-tax [/quote]

Mitt appears to be paying $3M per year. That is a lot more than I pay.

How much should one person have to pay?

I don’t feel I get the government I want and I resent my much smaller bill.

I find it disturbing when I read that 80% of the population thinks the rich don’t pay their “fair share” while 50% of the population pays nothing at all. Lots of people who pay nothing at all think that those who do pay don’t pay enough? How is that right?

Why would Mitt even stay in the US?[/quote]

I’d be fine if Mitt left the USA. But as a US citizen he still has to pay income taxes.

50% of the population does not pay nothing. That’s a myth.

You have to look at the big picture. When payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes and other taxes and fees are included, the working poor pay a good proportion of their income in taxes.

Remember that the payroll tax is limited to the first $110k. If you make 100 times more than that in salary, your proportion is much lower.

[markmax33]

[quote=CONCHO][quote=markmax33]I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system.[/quote]

What do logarithms have to do with picking stocks?[/quote]

He claimed there was a system or logarithm as to how stocks were pumped and dumped and that it was impossible for a human to work around the maniuplation of the market. I was merely asking him about his statement.

[markmax33]

[quote=flu][quote=markmax33][quote=flu][quote=markmax33]
America’s engine is the small business and they don’t have stocks and aren’t manipulated or doing the manipulating. I was trying to make an everyday example of an everyday company that was cleaner than the others. Take everyday small businesses instead and then my point should be clear.[/quote]

mm33,

I don’t doubt you’re an intelligent person. But really, there is a huge difference between a small business that you describe an these blockbuster IPOs of these dazzling companies. Most of these companies would have no shot at making their splash if it weren’t for the leverage/influence/etc of the very big wall street companies that main street loves to rail again. These are the same firms, (albeit different departments) that main steet is so disgusted with in the bailouts that will make a killing on these IPOs. They have an entire sales team dedicated to pumping up these companies up so they can sell to everyone else and cash in.. Look at who’s underwriting Facebook… Same top 3 investment banks, some investment banks that got involved into commercial banking to take advantage of all the RE speculation, and where the same banks that underwrote the previous .com bubble companies. Everytime you buy a post-ipo share on the retail market, you are contributing to this very game that you otherwise rail against. There’s nothing wrong with that. But call it as it is…..[/quote]

Again the initial point has been missed in like 40 posts now. There are companies that win through more manipulation than others. The more manipulative the more they should be taxed. They aren’t legitimate businesses. I have yet to see an explanation on how after the initial pump and dump you can’t reliably buy a good stock. They are pawns in the system. I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system. There are a number that show really good grwoth potential for years to come, not a ton of them, but there are some.[/quote]

mm33,

You ever wonder why i-banks have so many “analysts” on cnbc/bloomberg/cnnfn/etc, with they buy/hold recommendations…. (Actually, come to think of it, until recently, have you ever wondered why you rarely have an analyst on a big firm ever put out a sell recommendation until recent times)… They are part of a sales team…
This sort of shinnegans goes on all the time long after an ipo…Look at the stock market these days. How much do stocks move based on speculation of the future put out by some of these ibanks versus real fundamentals of the company??? Really mm33, unless a stock is paying a hefty dividend, it’s pretty much gambling and speculation propped up by wall street and all the cronyism that comes with it. The only difference is what side of the fence you are on…the winning side or the screwed/to-be-screwed side.[/quote]

Obviously the stock market is a big video game. Dividends don’t mean anything, the company could be hit by a scandal tomorrow and dividends would be slashed. I’m not sure how that strategy is any more applicable. Please explain. Dividends rarely beat real inflation either which makes it even worse of an idea.

Unfortunately the money that the Federal Reserve prints generally heads towards banks and is loaned to the big companies first. If you want to avoid inflation you better buy stocks because they are the only thing that could possibly truly beat it. You better learn a sell strategy though, that’s more important than being able to pick good stocks.

[all]

[quote=CONCHO]
What do logarithms have to do with picking stocks?[/quote]
The ability of a person to pick a good stock is not learned, but natural. Just like the natural logarithm.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=markmax33][quote=CONCHO][quote=markmax33]I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system.[/quote]

What do logarithms have to do with picking stocks?[/quote]

He claimed there was a system or logarithm as to how stocks were pumped and dumped and that it was impossible for a human to work around the maniuplation of the market. I was merely asking him about his statement.[/quote]

Markmax: No, you constructed a straw man and then tried to manuever CONCHO into defending it.

No ONE said ALL tech stocks were horrible or that the WHOLE system is gamed. To the contrary. You, however, keep playing this false meme and, as is now readily apparent, you’re doing it as a bludgeoning tactic.

As far as Facebook goes: RAPIDLY DECELERATING REVENUES. There, I went ahead and gave you one to research. Let me know if you need more, because it’s dauntingly clear you don’t know your way around an S-1.

[scaredyclassic]

I think people are going to get bored of facebook soon and migrate to piggington.

[blahblahblah]

[quote=markmax33][quote=CONCHO][quote=markmax33]I also don’t understand why you all don’t consider a stock like Google in you logarithm or why all tech stocks are horrible and are part of a gamed system.[/quote]

What do logarithms have to do with picking stocks?[/quote]

He claimed there was a system or logarithm as to how stocks were pumped and dumped and that it was impossible for a human to work around the maniuplation of the market. I was merely asking him about his statement.[/quote]

Actually I was just trying to see if you had misspelled “algorithm” or if you didn’t understand what a logarithm is. With this post you have clarified this — you have no idea what a logarithm is. Given that you are not aware of a basic math construct that you should have learned in the 8th grade, be careful rolling with the Big Boyz when playing in your Ameritrade account. The Big Boyz did not sleep through their math classes and they have 3L33T Math Skillz.

[blahblahblah]

Dupe deleted…

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1][quote=sreeb][quote=kcal09]Sooo…now we know that Mitt plays a mini-tax [/quote]

Mitt appears to be paying $3M per year. That is a lot more than I pay.

How much should one person have to pay?

I don’t feel I get the government I want and I resent my much smaller bill.

I find it disturbing when I read that 80% of the population thinks the rich don’t pay their “fair share” while 50% of the population pays nothing at all. Lots of people who pay nothing at all think that those who do pay don’t pay enough? How is that right?

Why would Mitt even stay in the US?[/quote]

I’d be fine if Mitt left the USA. But as a US citizen he still has to pay income taxes.

50% of the population does not pay nothing. That’s a myth.

You have to look at the big picture. When payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes and other taxes and fees are included, the working poor pay a good proportion of their income in taxes.

Remember that the payroll tax is limited to the first $110k. If you make 100 times more than that in salary, your proportion is much lower.[/quote]

I’ll go on record to say that I do think it’s b.s. that hedge fund managers get special tax treatments…

For those of you not know what’s going on there….I tried to find an article about hedge fund managers and why they aren’t taxed traditionally without any of the political party B.S. The closest I can find is wikipedia… I’ll try to dig up a more clear description…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_private_equity_and_hedge_funds

Meanwhile, the article that describes how 46% of americans don’t pay taxes was from huffington post, if I recall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/28/46-percent-of-americans-e_n_886293.html

[sdduuuude]

[quote=markmax33]Kcal – There are two types of business in America.

1. Crony Capitalism – where people get sweetheart GOV contracts, manipulate the GOV for business advanatages, etc. Haliburton is crony capitalism. The banks are crony capitalism.

2. Real Capitalism – that doesn’t prey on the taxpayer. Apple, Google, Facebook, etc are examples of real captilism. They created a product everyone wanted with ingenuity.

They should outright tax the crony capitalism companies 100% and they should leave the tax rate at 0 for the real capitalism companies. Unfortunately there is a push and pull to put everyone in these groups into the same tax bracket because they are making money. I see why the democrats and republicans are so split on this notion. The democrats see people getting rich off of BS loopholes and want those rich people to share what they effectively stole from every tax payer and the rich that made money legitametly don’t want to be taxed because they will have to kill jobs and won’t be able to compete as well at a higher tax rate.
The democratic position’s flaw is that they want to expand the GOV power which will eventually expand GOV contracts to the crony capitalism crew. This will reduce the competitveness of other businesses as regulations are added because the democrats feel they are getting ripped off and need more taxes. It’s quite a trap.

I’m not defending the republicans either, just explaining why the democrat mentality is flawed.[/quote]

I think you’ve hit it on the head, there mm.

Crony capitalism and union thuggery are the same thing in a different costume.

FLU – just because those companies are improperly valued by the market doesn’t meant they aren’t born from true capitalism.

[Author]

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