Emergency Services

[bubba99]

I am told that 70% of all fire fighters are volunteer positions. That volunteers can be trained to do rescues from burning buildings.

Perhaps the detective should be just a detective, and the fire captain just a fire captain. But maybe the ticket writer could learn to be a firefighter too. For the bulk of the traffic cops, ticket writers, beat cops, train them to hold a hose and fight fires. Many officers are already trained in emergency medicine. And although I understand the law enforcement job well, I cant get over thinking that firemen spend most of their time sleeping and joking with their co-workers and only fight fires once in a blue moon. Plus the era of a fat out of shape donut eating cop would be over.

A few years ago Homeland Security combined the Customs Inspector job with the Immigration Officer Position and called it a CBPO. The officer must know customs law, entry processing, immigration law and processing, terrorist interdiction, WMD detection and security. Previously four different positions, now just one job title.

[TexasLine]

I’ve know that Police do rush into burning buildings to save people…but never heard of a Medic/Fire rushing into a fight to make an arrest.

I’ve known that Medics/Fire do conduct Traffic control around bad accidents…but never heard of Firefighters who conduct murder investigations.

etc…

The lines do cross, but wholly different functions.

There is a reason why there are two separate departments…for so many hundreds of years.

As someone has already said…different skill sets.

[TexasLine]

I’ve know that Police do rush into burning buildings to save people…but never heard of a Medic/Fire rushing into a fight to make an arrest.

I’ve known that Medics/Fire do conduct Traffic control around bad accidents…but never heard of Firefighters who conduct murder investigations.

etc…

The lines do cross, but wholly different functions.

There is a reason why there are two separate departments…for so many hundreds of years.

As someone has already said…different skill sets.

[TexasLine]

I’ve know that Police do rush into burning buildings to save people…but never heard of a Medic/Fire rushing into a fight to make an arrest.

I’ve known that Medics/Fire do conduct Traffic control around bad accidents…but never heard of Firefighters who conduct murder investigations.

etc…

The lines do cross, but wholly different functions.

There is a reason why there are two separate departments…for so many hundreds of years.

As someone has already said…different skill sets.

[TexasLine]

I’ve know that Police do rush into burning buildings to save people…but never heard of a Medic/Fire rushing into a fight to make an arrest.

I’ve known that Medics/Fire do conduct Traffic control around bad accidents…but never heard of Firefighters who conduct murder investigations.

etc…

The lines do cross, but wholly different functions.

There is a reason why there are two separate departments…for so many hundreds of years.

As someone has already said…different skill sets.

[TexasLine]

I’ve know that Police do rush into burning buildings to save people…but never heard of a Medic/Fire rushing into a fight to make an arrest.

I’ve known that Medics/Fire do conduct Traffic control around bad accidents…but never heard of Firefighters who conduct murder investigations.

etc…

The lines do cross, but wholly different functions.

There is a reason why there are two separate departments…for so many hundreds of years.

As someone has already said…different skill sets.

[CA renter]

Yes, totally different jobs, with totally different skill sets.

I’d venture to say the jobs are about as similar as doctors are to dentists (more dissimliar, actually). They have entirely different responsibilities that do not overlap, totally different equipment, etc.

BTW, most firefighters are now trained paramedics, as most of their calls are medical aids. This is very different from EMT training (and requires at least a year or two of additional schooling and experience). Likewise, police officer training deals with things firefighters NEVER have to do.

[CA renter]

Yes, totally different jobs, with totally different skill sets.

I’d venture to say the jobs are about as similar as doctors are to dentists (more dissimliar, actually). They have entirely different responsibilities that do not overlap, totally different equipment, etc.

BTW, most firefighters are now trained paramedics, as most of their calls are medical aids. This is very different from EMT training (and requires at least a year or two of additional schooling and experience). Likewise, police officer training deals with things firefighters NEVER have to do.

[CA renter]

Yes, totally different jobs, with totally different skill sets.

I’d venture to say the jobs are about as similar as doctors are to dentists (more dissimliar, actually). They have entirely different responsibilities that do not overlap, totally different equipment, etc.

BTW, most firefighters are now trained paramedics, as most of their calls are medical aids. This is very different from EMT training (and requires at least a year or two of additional schooling and experience). Likewise, police officer training deals with things firefighters NEVER have to do.

[CA renter]

Yes, totally different jobs, with totally different skill sets.

I’d venture to say the jobs are about as similar as doctors are to dentists (more dissimliar, actually). They have entirely different responsibilities that do not overlap, totally different equipment, etc.

BTW, most firefighters are now trained paramedics, as most of their calls are medical aids. This is very different from EMT training (and requires at least a year or two of additional schooling and experience). Likewise, police officer training deals with things firefighters NEVER have to do.

[CA renter]

Yes, totally different jobs, with totally different skill sets.

I’d venture to say the jobs are about as similar as doctors are to dentists (more dissimliar, actually). They have entirely different responsibilities that do not overlap, totally different equipment, etc.

BTW, most firefighters are now trained paramedics, as most of their calls are medical aids. This is very different from EMT training (and requires at least a year or two of additional schooling and experience). Likewise, police officer training deals with things firefighters NEVER have to do.

[CA renter]

[quote=bubba99]I am told that 70% of all fire fighters are volunteer positions. That volunteers can be trained to do rescues from burning buildings.

Perhaps the detective should be just a detective, and the fire captain just a fire captain. But maybe the ticket writer could learn to be a firefighter too. For the bulk of the traffic cops, ticket writers, beat cops, train them to hold a hose and fight fires. Many officers are already trained in emergency medicine. And although I understand the law enforcement job well, I cant get over thinking that firemen spend most of their time sleeping and joking with their co-workers and only fight fires once in a blue moon. Plus the era of a fat out of shape donut eating cop would be over.

[/quote]

We hear a lot about how we should all move to “volunteer” departments, so thought it appropriate to add to the discussion here.

The ratio of “volunteer” to “professional” firefighters is so high because volunteer departments require more firefighters — they work fewer hours per week/month/year than full-time, professional firefighters. Therefore, a volunteer department that has a single engine and fire station might have 2-3 times the number of firefighters (or many more, depending on how it’s run) than a professional fire department would have for a single engine and station. Also, many volunteer firefighters are in-name, only. They might only “work” a shift every few months, but their numbers are still counted.

Volunteer firefighters are almost always EMTs, not paramedics, and there is a big difference between the two, including the ability to administer medicines and other life-saving treatment. Again, is someone likely to devote two++ years of their life to training for a job if that job is unpaid?

Volunteer departments have a horrendous response rate, and poor response times, compared to professional departments. They are also having difficulties attracting volunteers:

According to the National Volunteer Fire Council, the sheer volume of calls responded to by U.S. fire departments has more than doubled between 1986, when 11,890,000 calls were logged, and 2007, when 25,334.500 calls were answered. During the same time period, the number of active volunteer firefighters has decreased by 8 percent.

Ironically, while the number of calls for structure fires continues to decrease, the total number of emergency calls continues to increase largely because of more medical calls spurred by a maturing population of baby boomers.

“It’s becoming tougher and tougher to recruit and retain personnel,” Pearson said. “Fewer and fewer companies allow their people to leave for emergencies. It’s a nationwide problem that volunteers are facing all over the country.”

“In the early ’80s, we had 897,000 volunteer firefighters,” Ettinger said. “Now we have 825,000.
With the exception of 2001 and 2002 (the year of and the year after 9/11 when many young men and woman joined the armed forces or became first responders), it’s been a real challenge to attract and retain volunteer firefighters.”

http://www.rrstar.com/multimedia/galleries/x1445718825/Volunteer-firefighters-getting-harder-to-recruit
——————–

One of the main reasons volunteer departments were able to attract volunteers is because many (if not most) of the volunteers joined up for the experience needed to apply to a professional department. Unfortunately, these cash-strapped volunteer departments are having to constantly recruit and train new volunteers, and as soon as these kids get their firefighter certification and training, they leave for professional positions.

If we ever remove the carrot of a professional firefighting position after volunteer time, there would be no incentive for most of these people to volunteer.

[CA renter]

[quote=bubba99]I am told that 70% of all fire fighters are volunteer positions. That volunteers can be trained to do rescues from burning buildings.

Perhaps the detective should be just a detective, and the fire captain just a fire captain. But maybe the ticket writer could learn to be a firefighter too. For the bulk of the traffic cops, ticket writers, beat cops, train them to hold a hose and fight fires. Many officers are already trained in emergency medicine. And although I understand the law enforcement job well, I cant get over thinking that firemen spend most of their time sleeping and joking with their co-workers and only fight fires once in a blue moon. Plus the era of a fat out of shape donut eating cop would be over.

[/quote]

We hear a lot about how we should all move to “volunteer” departments, so thought it appropriate to add to the discussion here.

The ratio of “volunteer” to “professional” firefighters is so high because volunteer departments require more firefighters — they work fewer hours per week/month/year than full-time, professional firefighters. Therefore, a volunteer department that has a single engine and fire station might have 2-3 times the number of firefighters (or many more, depending on how it’s run) than a professional fire department would have for a single engine and station. Also, many volunteer firefighters are in-name, only. They might only “work” a shift every few months, but their numbers are still counted.

Volunteer firefighters are almost always EMTs, not paramedics, and there is a big difference between the two, including the ability to administer medicines and other life-saving treatment. Again, is someone likely to devote two++ years of their life to training for a job if that job is unpaid?

Volunteer departments have a horrendous response rate, and poor response times, compared to professional departments. They are also having difficulties attracting volunteers:

According to the National Volunteer Fire Council, the sheer volume of calls responded to by U.S. fire departments has more than doubled between 1986, when 11,890,000 calls were logged, and 2007, when 25,334.500 calls were answered. During the same time period, the number of active volunteer firefighters has decreased by 8 percent.

Ironically, while the number of calls for structure fires continues to decrease, the total number of emergency calls continues to increase largely because of more medical calls spurred by a maturing population of baby boomers.

“It’s becoming tougher and tougher to recruit and retain personnel,” Pearson said. “Fewer and fewer companies allow their people to leave for emergencies. It’s a nationwide problem that volunteers are facing all over the country.”

“In the early ’80s, we had 897,000 volunteer firefighters,” Ettinger said. “Now we have 825,000.
With the exception of 2001 and 2002 (the year of and the year after 9/11 when many young men and woman joined the armed forces or became first responders), it’s been a real challenge to attract and retain volunteer firefighters.”

http://www.rrstar.com/multimedia/galleries/x1445718825/Volunteer-firefighters-getting-harder-to-recruit
——————–

One of the main reasons volunteer departments were able to attract volunteers is because many (if not most) of the volunteers joined up for the experience needed to apply to a professional department. Unfortunately, these cash-strapped volunteer departments are having to constantly recruit and train new volunteers, and as soon as these kids get their firefighter certification and training, they leave for professional positions.

If we ever remove the carrot of a professional firefighting position after volunteer time, there would be no incentive for most of these people to volunteer.

[CA renter]

[quote=bubba99]I am told that 70% of all fire fighters are volunteer positions. That volunteers can be trained to do rescues from burning buildings.

Perhaps the detective should be just a detective, and the fire captain just a fire captain. But maybe the ticket writer could learn to be a firefighter too. For the bulk of the traffic cops, ticket writers, beat cops, train them to hold a hose and fight fires. Many officers are already trained in emergency medicine. And although I understand the law enforcement job well, I cant get over thinking that firemen spend most of their time sleeping and joking with their co-workers and only fight fires once in a blue moon. Plus the era of a fat out of shape donut eating cop would be over.

[/quote]

We hear a lot about how we should all move to “volunteer” departments, so thought it appropriate to add to the discussion here.

The ratio of “volunteer” to “professional” firefighters is so high because volunteer departments require more firefighters — they work fewer hours per week/month/year than full-time, professional firefighters. Therefore, a volunteer department that has a single engine and fire station might have 2-3 times the number of firefighters (or many more, depending on how it’s run) than a professional fire department would have for a single engine and station. Also, many volunteer firefighters are in-name, only. They might only “work” a shift every few months, but their numbers are still counted.

Volunteer firefighters are almost always EMTs, not paramedics, and there is a big difference between the two, including the ability to administer medicines and other life-saving treatment. Again, is someone likely to devote two++ years of their life to training for a job if that job is unpaid?

Volunteer departments have a horrendous response rate, and poor response times, compared to professional departments. They are also having difficulties attracting volunteers:

According to the National Volunteer Fire Council, the sheer volume of calls responded to by U.S. fire departments has more than doubled between 1986, when 11,890,000 calls were logged, and 2007, when 25,334.500 calls were answered. During the same time period, the number of active volunteer firefighters has decreased by 8 percent.

Ironically, while the number of calls for structure fires continues to decrease, the total number of emergency calls continues to increase largely because of more medical calls spurred by a maturing population of baby boomers.

“It’s becoming tougher and tougher to recruit and retain personnel,” Pearson said. “Fewer and fewer companies allow their people to leave for emergencies. It’s a nationwide problem that volunteers are facing all over the country.”

“In the early ’80s, we had 897,000 volunteer firefighters,” Ettinger said. “Now we have 825,000.
With the exception of 2001 and 2002 (the year of and the year after 9/11 when many young men and woman joined the armed forces or became first responders), it’s been a real challenge to attract and retain volunteer firefighters.”

http://www.rrstar.com/multimedia/galleries/x1445718825/Volunteer-firefighters-getting-harder-to-recruit
——————–

One of the main reasons volunteer departments were able to attract volunteers is because many (if not most) of the volunteers joined up for the experience needed to apply to a professional department. Unfortunately, these cash-strapped volunteer departments are having to constantly recruit and train new volunteers, and as soon as these kids get their firefighter certification and training, they leave for professional positions.

If we ever remove the carrot of a professional firefighting position after volunteer time, there would be no incentive for most of these people to volunteer.

[CA renter]

[quote=bubba99]I am told that 70% of all fire fighters are volunteer positions. That volunteers can be trained to do rescues from burning buildings.

Perhaps the detective should be just a detective, and the fire captain just a fire captain. But maybe the ticket writer could learn to be a firefighter too. For the bulk of the traffic cops, ticket writers, beat cops, train them to hold a hose and fight fires. Many officers are already trained in emergency medicine. And although I understand the law enforcement job well, I cant get over thinking that firemen spend most of their time sleeping and joking with their co-workers and only fight fires once in a blue moon. Plus the era of a fat out of shape donut eating cop would be over.

[/quote]

We hear a lot about how we should all move to “volunteer” departments, so thought it appropriate to add to the discussion here.

The ratio of “volunteer” to “professional” firefighters is so high because volunteer departments require more firefighters — they work fewer hours per week/month/year than full-time, professional firefighters. Therefore, a volunteer department that has a single engine and fire station might have 2-3 times the number of firefighters (or many more, depending on how it’s run) than a professional fire department would have for a single engine and station. Also, many volunteer firefighters are in-name, only. They might only “work” a shift every few months, but their numbers are still counted.

Volunteer firefighters are almost always EMTs, not paramedics, and there is a big difference between the two, including the ability to administer medicines and other life-saving treatment. Again, is someone likely to devote two++ years of their life to training for a job if that job is unpaid?

Volunteer departments have a horrendous response rate, and poor response times, compared to professional departments. They are also having difficulties attracting volunteers:

According to the National Volunteer Fire Council, the sheer volume of calls responded to by U.S. fire departments has more than doubled between 1986, when 11,890,000 calls were logged, and 2007, when 25,334.500 calls were answered. During the same time period, the number of active volunteer firefighters has decreased by 8 percent.

Ironically, while the number of calls for structure fires continues to decrease, the total number of emergency calls continues to increase largely because of more medical calls spurred by a maturing population of baby boomers.

“It’s becoming tougher and tougher to recruit and retain personnel,” Pearson said. “Fewer and fewer companies allow their people to leave for emergencies. It’s a nationwide problem that volunteers are facing all over the country.”

“In the early ’80s, we had 897,000 volunteer firefighters,” Ettinger said. “Now we have 825,000.
With the exception of 2001 and 2002 (the year of and the year after 9/11 when many young men and woman joined the armed forces or became first responders), it’s been a real challenge to attract and retain volunteer firefighters.”

http://www.rrstar.com/multimedia/galleries/x1445718825/Volunteer-firefighters-getting-harder-to-recruit
——————–

One of the main reasons volunteer departments were able to attract volunteers is because many (if not most) of the volunteers joined up for the experience needed to apply to a professional department. Unfortunately, these cash-strapped volunteer departments are having to constantly recruit and train new volunteers, and as soon as these kids get their firefighter certification and training, they leave for professional positions.

If we ever remove the carrot of a professional firefighting position after volunteer time, there would be no incentive for most of these people to volunteer.

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