Electoral College: the disenfranchisement of Californians

[ocrenter]

We have yet another election where the winner got less popular vote compared to the loser. This of course is secondary to the electoral college that places much more weight toward the smaller states compared to the much larger states.

One could say that under this system, 3.6 Californians are equivalent to 1 Wyomian. This is very similar to the slavery days when 1 black slave was counted as 2/5 of a person. Except the slave was actually weighted more than a modern day Californian.

We are essentially disenfranchised and deprived of our right of equal and fair representation.

The founding fathers revolted because they were being taxed without proper representation. We are essentially in the same boat here.

While ultimately I don’t want to see a breakup of the Union, the initiation of an independence movement for California maybe the only way to force a rectification of our disenfranchisement.

[an]

Can we split up CA into two first before cessation?

[scaredyclassic]

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/the-case-against-democracy/amp?client=ms-android-verizon

the case against democracy.

“roughly a third of American voters think that the Marxist slogan “From each according to his ability to each according to his need” appears in the Constitution. About as many are incapable of naming even one of the three branches of the United States government. Fewer than a quarter know who their senators are, and only half are aware that their state has two of them.

Democracy is other people, and the ignorance of the many has long galled the few, especially the few who consider themselves intellectuals. Plato, one of the earliest to see democracy as a problem, saw its typical citizen as shiftless and flighty:

Sometimes he drinks heavily while listening to the flute; at other times, he drinks only water and is on a diet; sometimes he goes in for physical training; at other times, he’s idle and neglects everything; and sometimes he even occupies himself with what he takes to be philosophy….”

we dont want equal voting power. we need to distribute more votes to smarter people, some argue.

[flyer]

Here’s what some are proposing:

http://fusion.net/story/368445/shervin-california-secession/

Might sound like a great idea until tech and other bubble industries burst again, and they are all out on the street, leaving the rest of us holding their bag. No thanks.

[outtamojo]

[quote=flyer]Here’s what some are proposing:

http://fusion.net/story/368445/shervin-california-secession/

Might sound like a great idea until tech and other bubble industries burst again, and they are all out on the street, leaving the rest of us holding their bag. No thanks.[/quote]

Like the bags we already hold for the red moocher states?

[flyer]

Could be, but I don’t live in those states.

If people decide to move forward with secession, I hope they realize a lot could go wrong with this plan, and they could find themselves in a far worse situation than merely despising a particular politician.

I’ll carefully watch the progress of this proposal to see how things go, so we can cash out of all of our real estate holdings well ahead of any potential consequences (read watch your property values plummet) and live happily ever after regardless of what happens. Hope those who buy into this can do the same, just in case things don’t work out as planned.

In addition to plummeting property values, here’s another little primer on the consequences of secession:

What Would Happen if California Seceded from the Union

[outtamojo]

[quote=flyer]Could be, but I don’t live in those states.

If people decide to move forward with secession, I hope they realize a lot could go wrong with this plan, and they could find themselves in a far worse situation than merely despising a particular politician.

I’ll carefully watch the progress of this proposal to see how things go, so we can cash out of all of our real estate holdings well ahead of any potential consequences (read watch your property values plummet) and live happily ever after regardless of what happens. Hope those who buy into this can do the same, just in case things don’t work out as planned.

In addition to plummeting property values, here’s another little primer on the consequences of secession:

http://www.toptenz.net/10-things-happen-california-seceded.php%5B/quote%5D

Not advocating secession but the irony of ironies more local control of our tax dollars. Why should I be forced to send tax dollars to areas where people like to fly the confederate flag for example.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/

[njtosd]

[quote=scaredyclassic]https://www.google.com/amp/www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/07/the-case-against-democracy/amp?client=ms-android-verizon

the case against democracy.

“roughly a third of American voters think that the Marxist slogan “From each according to his ability to each according to his need” appears in the Constitution. About as many are incapable of naming even one of the three branches of the United States government. Fewer than a quarter know who their senators are, and only half are aware that their state has two of them.

Democracy is other people, and the ignorance of the many has long galled the few, especially the few who consider themselves intellectuals. Plato, one of the earliest to see democracy as a problem, saw its typical citizen as shiftless and flighty:

Sometimes he drinks heavily while listening to the flute; at other times, he drinks only water and is on a diet; sometimes he goes in for physical training; at other times, he’s idle and neglects everything; and sometimes he even occupies himself with what he takes to be philosophy….”

we dont want equal voting power. we need to distribute more votes to smarter people, some argue.[/quote]

People also forget that the founding fathers did not want it to simply be one great big country. They wanted the power to be decentralized. The states were considered much more independent, separate and significant. So the electoral votes were not supposed to represent a certain number of people – they were (in part) supposed to represent the significance of statehood.. By the way, you never saw the DNC lift a finger after Gore lost in spite of having the popular vote. The pols like it this way.

And it still bugs me when Americans talk about our right to a “jury of ones peers” (Magna Carta ensuring that nobles were tried by nobles).

[an]

[quote=outtamojo]Not advocating secession but the irony of ironies more local control of our tax dollars. Why should I be forced to send tax dollars to areas where people like to fly the confederate flag for example.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/%5B/quote%5D
Isn’t that the whole point of small federal government, so that most of the $ states make will stay in the state? Don’t you see some of the irony there as well? You can’t complain that CA send too much to other states, but then want a bigger federal government. I see irony all around on both side :-D.

[flyer]

That, I can understand to some degree, outtaomojo, but, imo, the secession movement is not about the common good, and is as dangerous as any politician could ever possibly be.

It is comprised primarily of people who are selfishly willing to derail the entire state, just so they can prove their point, even if it ends in disaster–which it most certainly will.

[an]

[quote=flyer]That, I can understand to some degree, outtaomojo, but, imo, the secession movement is not about the common good, and is as dangerous as any politician could ever possibly be.

It is comprised primarily of people who are selfishly willing to derail the entire state, just so they can prove their point, even if it ends in disaster–which it most certainly will.[/quote]When Brexit happen, it took the whole world market down and Britain still hasn’t recovered. Just look at where the pound is today. This is a country that’s leaving a union. They already have all of the infrastructure in place to be an autonomous country. CA doesn’t have that and would have to spend a lot of $ to get that. What would happen to the tech economy when the world goes into recession because of it? At the same time, they have to spend a lot of $ to create the infrastructure to be its own country. I don’t see most of the tech company would be around long enough to see CA be its own country. Would CA economy still be as big as it is with the tech industry the size it is today? Coming back from it won’t be easy IMHO.

[outtamojo]

[quote=AN][quote=outtamojo]Not advocating secession but the irony of ironies more local control of our tax dollars. Why should I be forced to send tax dollars to areas where people like to fly the confederate flag for example.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/%5B/quote%5D
Isn’t that the whole point of small federal government, so that most of the $ states make will stay in the state? Don’t you see some of the irony there as well? You can’t complain that CA send too much to other states, but then want a bigger federal government. I see irony all around on both side :-D.[/quote]

Yah it’s so difficult to identify with just one political party these days

[an]

[quote=outtamojo]Yah it’s so difficult to identify with just one political party these days[/quote]Yep, with Trump, the line between the two is even more blurred. But definitely, it seems like small government and free trade is dead. Yay for populism.

[Coronita]

CalExit is a non-start, don’t even bother.

First of all, CA as a state is not as “blue” as people make it to be. Yes, it’s typically deep blue near large metro areas, but if you head inland and/or remote areas, it’s pretty red.

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+electoral+map&oq=california+electoral+map

Second of all, as large CA’s economy is, a lot of the businesses in CA enjoys some of the benefits from federal government. Pretty much most of the green energy based companies are all subsidized with federal grants, and a lot of a research and development comes from federal grants.

Then there’s the issue of defense. As a standalone “nation”, we will not have the protection of a standing military, army, navy, air force, or the threat of a nuke weapon. If folks want to entertain the crazy idea of CA being separate nation, then they need to entertain the idea that CA needs a standing military. And that’s just one of many other things each state enjoys as benefit belonging to this country.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN]Can we split up CA into two first before cessation?[/quote]

splitting the state at least gives us twice the senators for representation. if we have N.Cal and S.Cal, the democrats would have the senate.

question is which is harder, breaking up the state or getting rid of the electoral college.

[Author]

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