Construction Quality In 4S and Del Sur

[HenryPP]

Newbie to the forums.

I’ve been thinking of purchasing in 4S or Del Sur, since I work in Rancho Bernardo. Learned a lot reading the forums. I noticed a lot of the commenters here seem very negative on these two neighborhoods. The main reasons, as far as I can tell are three:

1. Small lots, all bunched together – so no real backyard and the the neighbors all look in your backyard and through your windows.

2. High Mello-Roos, especially for Del Sur.

3. Poor construction quality, especially for 4S.

OK, so I knew about #1 and #2 above, but I had not known about #3 before. Can someone please explain what you mean by poor construction quality in 4S (and maybe Del Sur, if that is also true)?

Thanks a bunch!

[HenryPP]

As a follow-up, I found this in Wikipedia. Not sure if it’s an indicator of good construction quality or clever marketing:

“4S Ranch is one of only five communities in San Diego designed and built according to strict “fire safe” construction standards. These standards resulted in not a single home being lost or even damaged in any of these communities during the October 2007 fires which affected much of Southern California and burned over 2000 homes…”

[EconProf]

Regarding fire losses, keep in mind that the vegetation in these two areas is not conducive to fires. Few wooded areas like Scripps Ranch and Rancho Bernardo that fed the flames that destroyed so many houses.

[svelte]

[quote=HenryPP]
“4S Ranch is one of only five communities in San Diego designed and built according to strict “fire safe” construction standards. These standards resulted in not a single home being lost or even damaged in any of these communities during the October 2007 fires which affected much of Southern California and burned over 2000 homes…”[/quote]

I notice you left off the next sentences from Wikipedia:

“The “Shelter in Place” construction concept of these communities was tested and passed through the fires without any damage. Although adjacent to other popular communities (Poway, Rancho Bernardo, Carmel Valley, Rancho Penasquitos, Rancho Santa Fe) in suburban San Diego, 4S Ranch is the only community among these that has been built to be sufficiently protected from wild fires such that it has been deemed a “Shelter in Place” community”

I don’t know about you, but staying put in a fire is not my idea of a good time. And it misleads the public into thinking that the homes won’t burn.

From other sources:

Shelter in place “doesn’t mean you always stay at home,” Bacon said. “It means you can stay at home because you have done advance preparation. You need to know when to evacuate and when evacuation is too late.”

Opponents fear the strategy will endanger lives by encouraging people to ignore evacuation orders.

That’s precisely why San Diego developer Fred Maas balks at the idea of using shelter-in-place standards to promote newer developments as
totally fire-safe.

“Short of completely sealed concrete houses, it’s very hard to absolutely give people a sense of security (that) you can weather any firestorm,” said Maas, president of Black Mountain Ranch LLC, which is developing the 2,600-home Del Sur project in north San Diego.

“To give people a false sense of security is imprudent, and to represent to them that they’d be safe from a natural disaster is something I’m not
comfortable with,” Maas said.

[HenryPP]

Oh, I agree completely that Shelter In Place doesn’t mean a What Me Worry attitude. Sometimes the best course really is to run from the danger.

It’s just that in previous threads, I had noticed that some commenters said specifically that 4S construction quality is poor. I was just using the fact that 4S seems to have done well during the 2007 fires to raise a potential counter-argument: Zero damage from a major natural disaster –> Maybe construction quality wasn’t that bad after all.

And that’s really my main question: How good is the quality of homes in 4S, Del Sur, etc? Plumbing, craftmanship,…

Thanks for your thoughts.

[EconProf]

[quote=svelte][quote=HenryPP]
“4S Ranch is one of only five communities in San Diego designed and built according to strict “fire safe” construction standards. These standards resulted in not a single home being lost or even damaged in any of these communities during the October 2007 fires which affected much of Southern California and burned over 2000 homes…”[/quote]

I notice you left off the next sentences from Wikipedia:

“The “Shelter in Place” construction concept of these communities was tested and passed through the fires without any damage. Although adjacent to other popular communities (Poway, Rancho Bernardo, Carmel Valley, Rancho Penasquitos, Rancho Santa Fe) in suburban San Diego, 4S Ranch is the only community among these that has been built to be sufficiently protected from wild fires such that it has been deemed a “Shelter in Place” community”

I don’t know about you, but staying put in a fire is not my idea of a good time. And it misleads the public into thinking that the homes won’t burn.

From other sources:

Shelter in place “doesn’t mean you always stay at home,” Bacon said. “It means you can stay at home because you have done advance preparation. You need to know when to evacuate and when evacuation is too late.”

Opponents fear the strategy will endanger lives by encouraging people to ignore evacuation orders.

That’s precisely why San Diego developer Fred Maas balks at the idea of using shelter-in-place standards to promote newer developments as
totally fire-safe.

“Short of completely sealed concrete houses, it’s very hard to absolutely give people a sense of security (that) you can weather any firestorm,” said Maas, president of Black Mountain Ranch LLC, which is developing the 2,600-home Del Sur project in north San Diego.

“To give people a false sense of security is imprudent, and to represent to them that they’d be safe from a natural disaster is something I’m not
comfortable with,” Maas said.[/quote]
Shelter In Place is a viable policy depending on:
1. The trees and brush near your house
2. The age and construction (esp. roofing and eaves) of your house
3. Your exit route possibilities.
We live in this area and during the last major fires happily stayed put. All the above factors were favorable, so we were in no real danger. Especially important is that the vegetation is 6-inch tall grass, green ground cover, and a few small ornamental trees.
Gov’t urged evacuation and 90% of my neighbors panicked and fled to gridlocked, dangerous highways and full motels. Most regretted leaving.
Americans are lousy at evaluating risk, weighing probabilities, and taking reasonable chances. Parents scare their kids about abductions, and then don’t buckle them up as they tailgate when driving late to school. We fear spectactular and well-publicized but rare events, and ignor the less dramatic, common risks.
Government’s reflexive action is to tell everyone to get out, rather than explain a checklist of factors to consider. Can’t blame the bureaucrats for taking the easy way out, but C’mon folks, we have to think for ourselves.

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