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Allan from Fallbrook.
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October 1, 2010 at 9:51 AM #612588October 1, 2010 at 10:48 AM #611542
Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]
I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.
The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.
Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.
I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.
But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”
I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.
The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.
So it’s up to you, my friend.
Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]
Pri: The GOP’s association with Beck and Limbaugh and their groveling fealty to both are excellent examples why I haven’t voted GOP since 1996. It is revolting and Reagan was far-sighted enough to see it back in the early 1980s (when he warned against the rising power of the Christian Right. Interestingly, it didn’t stop him from taking their votes…). No, I certainly don’t disagree with you, but the connection that most irritates me is when people like BigGubment automatically conflate “conservatism” with “Christian evangelical”.
As I’ve often said on this board, I don’t have an issue with liberals or liberalism. I think both are, on balance, positive. I do, however, have a major problem with Leftists and Leftism, and posters like BigGubment are nothing other than cheap Leftist hacks pushing an agenda and I will respond strongly when I see that.
As far as running for office: Thanks for the compliment, but Oh, Hell NO! I’d last about five minutes. I wouldn’t mind running riot on “Real Time with Bill Maher”, though. Putting one of his panels to flight would be a blast. Especially if that suckling pig propagandist Michael Moore was there. Yup.
October 1, 2010 at 10:48 AM #611627Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]
I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.
The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.
Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.
I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.
But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”
I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.
The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.
So it’s up to you, my friend.
Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]
Pri: The GOP’s association with Beck and Limbaugh and their groveling fealty to both are excellent examples why I haven’t voted GOP since 1996. It is revolting and Reagan was far-sighted enough to see it back in the early 1980s (when he warned against the rising power of the Christian Right. Interestingly, it didn’t stop him from taking their votes…). No, I certainly don’t disagree with you, but the connection that most irritates me is when people like BigGubment automatically conflate “conservatism” with “Christian evangelical”.
As I’ve often said on this board, I don’t have an issue with liberals or liberalism. I think both are, on balance, positive. I do, however, have a major problem with Leftists and Leftism, and posters like BigGubment are nothing other than cheap Leftist hacks pushing an agenda and I will respond strongly when I see that.
As far as running for office: Thanks for the compliment, but Oh, Hell NO! I’d last about five minutes. I wouldn’t mind running riot on “Real Time with Bill Maher”, though. Putting one of his panels to flight would be a blast. Especially if that suckling pig propagandist Michael Moore was there. Yup.
October 1, 2010 at 10:48 AM #612175Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]
I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.
The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.
Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.
I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.
But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”
I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.
The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.
So it’s up to you, my friend.
Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]
Pri: The GOP’s association with Beck and Limbaugh and their groveling fealty to both are excellent examples why I haven’t voted GOP since 1996. It is revolting and Reagan was far-sighted enough to see it back in the early 1980s (when he warned against the rising power of the Christian Right. Interestingly, it didn’t stop him from taking their votes…). No, I certainly don’t disagree with you, but the connection that most irritates me is when people like BigGubment automatically conflate “conservatism” with “Christian evangelical”.
As I’ve often said on this board, I don’t have an issue with liberals or liberalism. I think both are, on balance, positive. I do, however, have a major problem with Leftists and Leftism, and posters like BigGubment are nothing other than cheap Leftist hacks pushing an agenda and I will respond strongly when I see that.
As far as running for office: Thanks for the compliment, but Oh, Hell NO! I’d last about five minutes. I wouldn’t mind running riot on “Real Time with Bill Maher”, though. Putting one of his panels to flight would be a blast. Especially if that suckling pig propagandist Michael Moore was there. Yup.
October 1, 2010 at 10:48 AM #612290Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]
I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.
The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.
Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.
I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.
But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”
I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.
The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.
So it’s up to you, my friend.
Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]
Pri: The GOP’s association with Beck and Limbaugh and their groveling fealty to both are excellent examples why I haven’t voted GOP since 1996. It is revolting and Reagan was far-sighted enough to see it back in the early 1980s (when he warned against the rising power of the Christian Right. Interestingly, it didn’t stop him from taking their votes…). No, I certainly don’t disagree with you, but the connection that most irritates me is when people like BigGubment automatically conflate “conservatism” with “Christian evangelical”.
As I’ve often said on this board, I don’t have an issue with liberals or liberalism. I think both are, on balance, positive. I do, however, have a major problem with Leftists and Leftism, and posters like BigGubment are nothing other than cheap Leftist hacks pushing an agenda and I will respond strongly when I see that.
As far as running for office: Thanks for the compliment, but Oh, Hell NO! I’d last about five minutes. I wouldn’t mind running riot on “Real Time with Bill Maher”, though. Putting one of his panels to flight would be a blast. Especially if that suckling pig propagandist Michael Moore was there. Yup.
October 1, 2010 at 10:48 AM #612603Participant[quote=pri_dk][quote=”Allan’]I’m tired of the same old tired rhetoric that conflates conservatism with born-again Christianity (another group I have significant issues with)[/quote]
I’m tired of it too Allan…but the situation is not that simple.
The “conflating” of conservatism with hard-right Christianity comes from the right these days as much as it does from the left.
Not everyone from the right, but those with the most power and the loudest voice. Look how Limbaugh reacted to criticism of Christine O’Donnell (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/limbaugh-slams-rove-odonnell/) Any attempt to moderate the hard-right is squashed by the de-facto leadership of the party.
I would be very happy to see the day when the conservative media reflects the voice of the Allan from Fallbrooks of the world.
But today we have Glen Beck telling us to “Pray on It.”
I believe that the right *has* been overwhelmed by the “Bible-thumpers” – not just because the left is presenting it that way – but because the power on the right wants it that way. It has led them to great success, so it will continue.
The only folks that can fix this problem are the reasonable and sane folks on the right – they have to call BS on this nonsense.
So it’s up to you, my friend.
Care to run for office? My checkbook is open…[/quote]
Pri: The GOP’s association with Beck and Limbaugh and their groveling fealty to both are excellent examples why I haven’t voted GOP since 1996. It is revolting and Reagan was far-sighted enough to see it back in the early 1980s (when he warned against the rising power of the Christian Right. Interestingly, it didn’t stop him from taking their votes…). No, I certainly don’t disagree with you, but the connection that most irritates me is when people like BigGubment automatically conflate “conservatism” with “Christian evangelical”.
As I’ve often said on this board, I don’t have an issue with liberals or liberalism. I think both are, on balance, positive. I do, however, have a major problem with Leftists and Leftism, and posters like BigGubment are nothing other than cheap Leftist hacks pushing an agenda and I will respond strongly when I see that.
As far as running for office: Thanks for the compliment, but Oh, Hell NO! I’d last about five minutes. I wouldn’t mind running riot on “Real Time with Bill Maher”, though. Putting one of his panels to flight would be a blast. Especially if that suckling pig propagandist Michael Moore was there. Yup.
October 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM #611552Participant[quote=briansd1]
Have you heard of the French economic paradox? France is a very productive country despite the 35-hour work week and retirement at 60.France has corporate giants in every field.
Over the last few decades (to even out for the bubble periods), compare a working-class Frenchman in Avignon to a working-class Brit in Leeds to a working-class American in Springfield, MO.
[/quote]
Brian: You raise a valid point, but you’re also leaving quite a bit out. Yes, I’m aware of Carrefour, France Telecom and Axa, but you also need to mention the significant support the French government provides, as well as the massive subsidies. You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbsLike the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due. Given the level of state employment and involvement, as well as the state’s role in French society, the situation will unravel differently than in America or Britain, but it is unraveling, of that there is no doubt.
So, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as the “French Economic Paradox”, per se. Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.
October 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM #611637Participant[quote=briansd1]
Have you heard of the French economic paradox? France is a very productive country despite the 35-hour work week and retirement at 60.France has corporate giants in every field.
Over the last few decades (to even out for the bubble periods), compare a working-class Frenchman in Avignon to a working-class Brit in Leeds to a working-class American in Springfield, MO.
[/quote]
Brian: You raise a valid point, but you’re also leaving quite a bit out. Yes, I’m aware of Carrefour, France Telecom and Axa, but you also need to mention the significant support the French government provides, as well as the massive subsidies. You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbsLike the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due. Given the level of state employment and involvement, as well as the state’s role in French society, the situation will unravel differently than in America or Britain, but it is unraveling, of that there is no doubt.
So, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as the “French Economic Paradox”, per se. Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.
October 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM #612185Participant[quote=briansd1]
Have you heard of the French economic paradox? France is a very productive country despite the 35-hour work week and retirement at 60.France has corporate giants in every field.
Over the last few decades (to even out for the bubble periods), compare a working-class Frenchman in Avignon to a working-class Brit in Leeds to a working-class American in Springfield, MO.
[/quote]
Brian: You raise a valid point, but you’re also leaving quite a bit out. Yes, I’m aware of Carrefour, France Telecom and Axa, but you also need to mention the significant support the French government provides, as well as the massive subsidies. You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbsLike the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due. Given the level of state employment and involvement, as well as the state’s role in French society, the situation will unravel differently than in America or Britain, but it is unraveling, of that there is no doubt.
So, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as the “French Economic Paradox”, per se. Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.
October 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM #612300Participant[quote=briansd1]
Have you heard of the French economic paradox? France is a very productive country despite the 35-hour work week and retirement at 60.France has corporate giants in every field.
Over the last few decades (to even out for the bubble periods), compare a working-class Frenchman in Avignon to a working-class Brit in Leeds to a working-class American in Springfield, MO.
[/quote]
Brian: You raise a valid point, but you’re also leaving quite a bit out. Yes, I’m aware of Carrefour, France Telecom and Axa, but you also need to mention the significant support the French government provides, as well as the massive subsidies. You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbsLike the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due. Given the level of state employment and involvement, as well as the state’s role in French society, the situation will unravel differently than in America or Britain, but it is unraveling, of that there is no doubt.
So, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as the “French Economic Paradox”, per se. Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.
October 1, 2010 at 11:04 AM #612613Participant[quote=briansd1]
Have you heard of the French economic paradox? France is a very productive country despite the 35-hour work week and retirement at 60.France has corporate giants in every field.
Over the last few decades (to even out for the bubble periods), compare a working-class Frenchman in Avignon to a working-class Brit in Leeds to a working-class American in Springfield, MO.
[/quote]
Brian: You raise a valid point, but you’re also leaving quite a bit out. Yes, I’m aware of Carrefour, France Telecom and Axa, but you also need to mention the significant support the French government provides, as well as the massive subsidies. You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbsLike the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due. Given the level of state employment and involvement, as well as the state’s role in French society, the situation will unravel differently than in America or Britain, but it is unraveling, of that there is no doubt.
So, I wouldn’t necessarily characterize it as the “French Economic Paradox”, per se. Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.
October 1, 2010 at 1:08 PM #611583briansd1
Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
[/quote]Good point.
But without an industrial policy, France would have become irrelevant decades ago.
Renault is actually doing very well. They acquired a majority of Nissan and saved it. Did you notice that Nissan cars now a French flair to them?
Notice also that the French have privatized (gasp) utilities such as water treatment (Suez/Lyonnaise) and energy production (Areva). Those corporate giants operate around the world, even in the United States.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbs[/quote]
As a fan of architecture, I did visit the banlieues to imagine the vision of the urban planners when they created those satellite cities.
I’ve come to believe that when it comes to urban development, we need both planning (Baron Haussman) and organic growth to build a beautiful livable city.
But yeah, you make a great point that France did a miserable job of integrating immigrants into society. I believe the reason is because the French economy is too dirigiste in favor of the establishment; and newcomers cannot break in and thrive.
In America we have more economic mobility; and we do a much better job of providing economic opportunities for our new immigrants.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Like the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due.
[/quote]Sure.
However my point when comparing the UK to France was that Anglo-Saxon capitalism doesn’t necessarily result in a better standard of living for the maximum number of “average” citizens.
No doubt, the Anglo-Saxon model generated higher GPD. But in the case of the UK, that greater wealth is held by the aristocrats and the foreign millionaires and billionaires who love to make London home.
The wealth in the UK is concentrated in London and in the hands of the upper class. Little has trickled down to the commoners.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.[/quote]That I very much agree with. Debt is simply front loading. If you have to go into debt, it’s better to front load on investments that increase future productive capacity than to front load on ephemeral consumption (which we did for too long).
October 1, 2010 at 1:08 PM #611669Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
[/quote]Good point.
But without an industrial policy, France would have become irrelevant decades ago.
Renault is actually doing very well. They acquired a majority of Nissan and saved it. Did you notice that Nissan cars now a French flair to them?
Notice also that the French have privatized (gasp) utilities such as water treatment (Suez/Lyonnaise) and energy production (Areva). Those corporate giants operate around the world, even in the United States.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbs[/quote]
As a fan of architecture, I did visit the banlieues to imagine the vision of the urban planners when they created those satellite cities.
I’ve come to believe that when it comes to urban development, we need both planning (Baron Haussman) and organic growth to build a beautiful livable city.
But yeah, you make a great point that France did a miserable job of integrating immigrants into society. I believe the reason is because the French economy is too dirigiste in favor of the establishment; and newcomers cannot break in and thrive.
In America we have more economic mobility; and we do a much better job of providing economic opportunities for our new immigrants.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Like the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due.
[/quote]Sure.
However my point when comparing the UK to France was that Anglo-Saxon capitalism doesn’t necessarily result in a better standard of living for the maximum number of “average” citizens.
No doubt, the Anglo-Saxon model generated higher GPD. But in the case of the UK, that greater wealth is held by the aristocrats and the foreign millionaires and billionaires who love to make London home.
The wealth in the UK is concentrated in London and in the hands of the upper class. Little has trickled down to the commoners.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.[/quote]That I very much agree with. Debt is simply front loading. If you have to go into debt, it’s better to front load on investments that increase future productive capacity than to front load on ephemeral consumption (which we did for too long).
October 1, 2010 at 1:08 PM #612218Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
[/quote]Good point.
But without an industrial policy, France would have become irrelevant decades ago.
Renault is actually doing very well. They acquired a majority of Nissan and saved it. Did you notice that Nissan cars now a French flair to them?
Notice also that the French have privatized (gasp) utilities such as water treatment (Suez/Lyonnaise) and energy production (Areva). Those corporate giants operate around the world, even in the United States.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbs[/quote]
As a fan of architecture, I did visit the banlieues to imagine the vision of the urban planners when they created those satellite cities.
I’ve come to believe that when it comes to urban development, we need both planning (Baron Haussman) and organic growth to build a beautiful livable city.
But yeah, you make a great point that France did a miserable job of integrating immigrants into society. I believe the reason is because the French economy is too dirigiste in favor of the establishment; and newcomers cannot break in and thrive.
In America we have more economic mobility; and we do a much better job of providing economic opportunities for our new immigrants.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Like the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due.
[/quote]Sure.
However my point when comparing the UK to France was that Anglo-Saxon capitalism doesn’t necessarily result in a better standard of living for the maximum number of “average” citizens.
No doubt, the Anglo-Saxon model generated higher GPD. But in the case of the UK, that greater wealth is held by the aristocrats and the foreign millionaires and billionaires who love to make London home.
The wealth in the UK is concentrated in London and in the hands of the upper class. Little has trickled down to the commoners.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.[/quote]That I very much agree with. Debt is simply front loading. If you have to go into debt, it’s better to front load on investments that increase future productive capacity than to front load on ephemeral consumption (which we did for too long).
October 1, 2010 at 1:08 PM #612333Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
You should also mention the French corporate losers, like Renault or Dassault, showing that governments (including the US, to be fair) pick losers far more than winners.
[/quote]Good point.
But without an industrial policy, France would have become irrelevant decades ago.
Renault is actually doing very well. They acquired a majority of Nissan and saved it. Did you notice that Nissan cars now a French flair to them?
Notice also that the French have privatized (gasp) utilities such as water treatment (Suez/Lyonnaise) and energy production (Areva). Those corporate giants operate around the world, even in the United States.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Rather than comparing a Frenchman from Avignon with someone from Leeds, UK, why don’t we compare that same Frenchman with someone far closer, meaning a Muslim youth in a French banlieue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_situation_in_the_French_suburbs[/quote]
As a fan of architecture, I did visit the banlieues to imagine the vision of the urban planners when they created those satellite cities.
I’ve come to believe that when it comes to urban development, we need both planning (Baron Haussman) and organic growth to build a beautiful livable city.
But yeah, you make a great point that France did a miserable job of integrating immigrants into society. I believe the reason is because the French economy is too dirigiste in favor of the establishment; and newcomers cannot break in and thrive.
In America we have more economic mobility; and we do a much better job of providing economic opportunities for our new immigrants.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Like the US and UK, the French have been “papering over” their situation for decades as well, and the bill is now coming due.
[/quote]Sure.
However my point when comparing the UK to France was that Anglo-Saxon capitalism doesn’t necessarily result in a better standard of living for the maximum number of “average” citizens.
No doubt, the Anglo-Saxon model generated higher GPD. But in the case of the UK, that greater wealth is held by the aristocrats and the foreign millionaires and billionaires who love to make London home.
The wealth in the UK is concentrated in London and in the hands of the upper class. Little has trickled down to the commoners.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Whether American or European, we’ve all binged on way too much debt and various companies, states and nations essentially wrote present value checks on future value “earnings” and the repo man is here now.[/quote]That I very much agree with. Debt is simply front loading. If you have to go into debt, it’s better to front load on investments that increase future productive capacity than to front load on ephemeral consumption (which we did for too long).
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