Can’t afford Carmel Valley? No problem….

[FlyerInHi]

Few people are objective about places they grow up in.

The east coast has many low class ossified ways. California is better. People come here to better and remake themselves.

[spdrun]

It’s not a question of objectivity. It’s a question of fact. There are very few places in the US where kids are given the level of freedom that they have in the rest of the world. NJ comes pretty close, with local (decentralized) schools and a high foreign population (less paranoia due to being brainwashed by the American media from birth). There’s also a lot of old money that’s down-to-earth rather than being flashy and in your face like in CA (or even NYC).

Little of the Californian BS about schools, either. If you move into a well-run town, you’ll have good schools, and you can generally rent something OK for cheaper than in San Diego. It doesn’t matter where you live in town — there’s generally one high school and one district only, though grade schools might be different.

Foreign immigration to the East Coast is still pretty big as well. So people do come there as well as the West Coast to remake themselves. If anything, a mixture of different nationalities is more interesting than Midwestern transplants. (And yes, I know that California has a lot of diversity, but at this point, I’m taking the piss.)

There’s plenty of low-class to go around on the West Coast as well. Come to think of it, your home base of Vegas seems to have thrived on lack of class and turned it into a profit center.

Don’t get me wrong: I love both coasts. But I can understand the people who are happiest near where they grew up and don’t want to end up in some Rust Belt rathole for years on end.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN][quote=ocrenter][quote=AN][quote=njtosd]But we have been very lucky – our life events (birth of children, job changes) have coincided very well with the market.[/quote]I believe this is the most important factor of all. If your life events coincides with market cycle, then success tend to come much easier than if your life event doesn’t coincide with the market cycle.[/quote]

Well… As we can all atest to, one can manipulate life events to coincide with market cycle…[/quote]
Yes, it’s possible and I’ve done it. But it requires you to be aware of such cycle and modify your life events. Most people are not aware of such cycle and/or have no desire to learn about such cycle. For those majority, when you’re born and when your life event make a huge difference.[/quote]

That is why so many people use “fate” and “god’s plans” to excuse themselves from having to pay attention and be aware and make the necessary modifications.

[an]

[quote=ocrenter]That is why so many people use “fate” and “god’s plans” to excuse themselves from having to pay attention and be aware and make the necessary modifications.[/quote]A lot of time, it is fate. There are many things in life that you can’t change even if you wanted to. Cancer, marrying the wrong/right person, genetic diseases, born with/without birth defects, being hit by a drunk driver, being born with high/low IQ, being born in a very rich/poor family, being born in the wrong/right country at the wrong/right time (i.e. being born in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge massacre and having 90% of your family executed and you survive because you just happen to be be out of town), etc. I think “fate” is “god’s plans” are way for people to explain/cope/make sense of/with things that are out of their control. I’m pretty sure if you’re born during the great depression era in the US or during the hyper inflation era in Germany, there’s really not much you can do but make lemonade out of lemons or suicide.

[flyer]

I agree that being born at the right place at the right time has a lot to do with success (or lack thereof.)

That relates to the discussion about how difficult it is for recent college grads to find the jobs they want in places they want to live, and this may be an ongoing challenge for them throughout their lives.

For many of us, the “living where you want to live” part is the priority, and that was one reason I chose the airline business, since we have been able to live anywhere, but, in some cases, it’s probably going to be necessary to make other modifications in order to do so.

[njtosd]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=AN][quote=ocrenter][quote=AN][quote=njtosd]But we have been very lucky – our life events (birth of children, job changes) have coincided very well with the market.[/quote]I believe this is the most important factor of all. If your life events coincides with market cycle, then success tend to come much easier than if your life event doesn’t coincide with the market cycle.[/quote]

Well… As we can all atest to, one can manipulate life events to coincide with market cycle…[/quote]
Yes, it’s possible and I’ve done it. But it requires you to be aware of such cycle and modify your life events. Most people are not aware of such cycle and/or have no desire to learn about such cycle. For those majority, when you’re born and when your life event make a huge difference.[/quote]

That is why so many people use “fate” and “god’s plans” to excuse themselves from having to pay attention and be aware and make the necessary modifications.[/quote]

In our case, we had our second child shortly after 9/11, and housing prices were down. Even I wouldn’t claim to have been able to manipulate that (well at least 9/11).

[njtosd]

[quote=spdrun]

I have to say your negative attitude is a bit of a downer.

Thing is, I actually like NJ. Grew up there, and the state is quite a bit of fun. Interesting people, lots of diversity in food and culture, close to the best city in the US. Good beaches, hiking in the northwestern part. In many ways, it’s like a small California, and sorry you didn’t appreciate it. If you lived in the right town, your kids actually might have been happier than in California. Much less paranoia, no busing in some towns, so kids get to walk to school and hang out after hours rather than being tied to a rigid, car-based schedule.

It’s not some forsaken rust-belt town 200 miles from the nearest non-awful place.

As far as my attitude, it’s not negative. It’s anti-corporate and generally anti-authority. Some people accept the BS that “society” asks of them with a smile. I choose not to, or at least do so with a frown and a mouth full of spittle at the ready.[/quote]

We lived west of Morristown (close to where Chris Christie lives). It was beautiful – the prettiest house and the prettiest lot I’ll probably ever have. But the people sort of reminded me, well, of you. Even my 5 year old asked when we were going back to San Diego from the moment we moved there.

Not sure why the word society is in quotes. Do you not believe in society? Reminds me of the restaurants that proclaim “Fine Food” – come to think of it, common on the NJ diners.

Must be hard to talk when your mouth is always full of spittle at the ready.

[spdrun]

Ah. Mendham. Not one of the finest parts of NJ. Fake-rural, full of richy-rich snobs, without having particularly easy access to NYC or really being walkable. Not to mention being a big speed trap. Beware. The 25 mph sign around a bend on Rte. 24 usually has a cop about six inches from the other side of it, waiting eagerly…

Yeah, I can see how you hated life in NJ!

As far as the people, the only difference is that when people from the Northeast are annoyed at something, they vent. Loudly. They don’t pretend to make nice while getting ready to backstab you as much. I find the honesty refreashing.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN][quote=ocrenter]That is why so many people use “fate” and “god’s plans” to excuse themselves from having to pay attention and be aware and make the necessary modifications.[/quote]A lot of time, it is fate. There are many things in life that you can’t change even if you wanted to. Cancer, marrying the wrong/right person, genetic diseases, born with/without birth defects, being hit by a drunk driver, being born with high/low IQ, being born in a very rich/poor family, being born in the wrong/right country at the wrong/right time (i.e. being born in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge massacre and having 90% of your family executed and you survive because you just happen to be be out of town), etc. I think “fate” is “god’s plans” are way for people to explain/cope/make sense of/with things that are out of their control. I’m pretty sure if you’re born during the great depression era in the US or during the hyper inflation era in Germany, there’s really not much you can do but make lemonade out of lemons or suicide.[/quote]

Of course there are going to be the natural disasters and historic events where there will be zero options nor ability to foresee and change course. We could all go the way of the dinosaurs tomorrow and no one would be left to debate if they could have manipulated the cyclical events in their favor.

However, despite all of our genetic predisposition and socioeconomic tendencies we are all equipped with the ability make changes to that given fate on a regular basis. Most people do not. And that’s why marketing firms are able to make extremely accurate predictions of purchase behaviors while public health physicians can actually manipulate risky sexual behavior through offer of lotteries, but not steady payments.

My point is most people will settle into what their genetic predisposition and socioeconomic tendencies guide them toward. It is the default, it is what comes easiest. And while a select few will be able to go against the grain, the vast majority will not. And that vast majority will take perfectly fluid and malleable situations with multiple possibilities and outcomes and turn them into very predictable singular outcome scenario and blame such outcome on fate.

[flyer]

I agree that many people (consciously or subconsciously) may believe their lives are controlled by luck and fate, which, imo, is just way of opting out of taking responsibility for creating the life you really want to live.

Fortunately, I think most of us “Piggs” are living the lives we want to live, and that’s why I enjoy the various viewpoints shared on this forum.

[flyer]

.

[all]

[quote=ocrenter]… while public health physicians can actually manipulate risky sexual behavior through offer of lotteries, but not steady payments.
[/quote]

That team seemed very creative, with tracking secondary std to reduce HIV infection rate and the idea of testing lottery winners only.

[thejard]

NPR talked the other day where some study was done back in the 90s where they took lower income folk and moved them to middle income areas.

They had hoped the kids would do better and the adults would too. They largely found it didn’t.

HOWEVER, looking back at it from a different question: what is the impact on kids when moving to better schools at different ages. Age 13 was the key

http://pschousing.org/news/long-term-benefits-low-income-children-who-move-better-neighborhoods

So, just make sure the kiddos are in a good school by Junior High 🙂

[an]

[quote=ocrenter]My point is most people will settle into what their genetic predisposition and socioeconomic tendencies guide them toward. It is the default, it is what comes easiest. And while a select few will be able to go against the grain, the vast majority will not. And that vast majority will take perfectly fluid and malleable situations with multiple possibilities and outcomes and turn them into very predictable singular outcome scenario and blame such outcome on fate.[/quote]Here’s the definition of fate: “the development of events beyond a person’s control, regarded as determined by a supernatural power.” So, genetic predisposition and socioeconomic tendencies are all part of fate IMHO. I’m fully aware we do have choices, but looking back, my choices are either to do OK or crash and burn. I was never given a choice to do exceptional. I was never given a choice to play bball like Mike, or play golf like Tiger, or be smart and ingenuitive like Gates, Brin, Jobs, etc. So, I accepted my fate that I will never be rich like them and be able to live their lives. Because of my genetic and personality predisposition (fate or just plain old probability), I’m able to brake free from the heard (sometimes). Maybe that’s what I’m destined to be or how well off I would be.

Here’s an example of in when you’re born will make a HUGE difference: If you’re born around 1980 and study software engineering, when you graduate in 2002 with a BS in Engineering, you’re faced with the .com crash. So if you’re lucky enough to get a job, you’d be paid crap. You’d save for a few years and got married, so decide to buy a place around 2006. You’d be screwed. But if you actively go against the heard, which is probabilistic-ally low, then you’d be a little better off, because then you can buy in 2008-2011 for a pretty big discount. However, lets take that exact same scenario, but lets say you’re born 6 years earlier in 1974. You’d be graduating with a BS in Engineering in 1996. Lets say you’re just as lucky in landing a job and your company when IPO. You also found a wife and decide to buy a house 4 years after you graduated. Since you have $1-2M due to stock options, you’re able to either buy a huge house in very nice area or be able to buy a nice primary and many rentals. If you just follow the heard and keep on working, you’d still be very well off. If you go against the heard like your personality dictate, you’d sell all your rentals and primary in 2005-2006. Rent and buy back in 2008-2011. You see how being born 6 years apart can yield a drastically different financial outcome. This is assuming you’re keeping all variables the same.

[njtosd]

[quote=thejard]NPR talked the other day where some study was done back in the 90s where they took lower income folk and moved them to middle income areas.

They had hoped the kids would do better and the adults would too. They largely found it didn’t.

HOWEVER, looking back at it from a different question: what is the impact on kids when moving to better schools at different ages. Age 13 was the key

http://pschousing.org/news/long-term-benefits-low-income-children-who-move-better-neighborhoods

So, just make sure the kiddos are in a good school by Junior High :)[/quote]

Frankly – I suspect that one of the things that makes people successful is a flavor of anxiety that it soothed by study, work, whatever (but does not respond to alcohol – if it did, they would probably have a high rate of alcoholism). And I think this is passed down. I have lived and studied in various places – it seems to me the high achievers often have something short of an anxiety disorder. For example, I routinely receive school emails sent at 2:00am about what I would call minor issues; the mothers around here are so afraid of their children gaining weight that they compare methods of preventing their children from eating their Halloween and Easter candy. This is in a school where I would estimate the rate of children being overweight is no more than 1%.

So – the low income folk you mention who were moved in next to these people would probably not enjoy it, and would be unlikely to “join in.” There would probably be some who had the same nervous tendencies who never had the opportunity to get ahead, and I’m sure those would do well. I know I sound fatalistic, but I think it’s largely inborn. And those that weren’t born with it drink a lot of coffee . . .

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