bailing out robert toll

[Rich Toscano]

Mmmm… garlic.

I see where you are coming from. But, it’s not that the treasury is getting all the upside from risk-taking and none of the downside. They are getting both: tax revenues when the risk pays off, and none when it fails.

I understand that they can go back and say, basically, we’re going to widen the timeframe from 1 year to 5 years. But that is pretty arbitrary, since the timeframe has always been 1 year, and it’s 1 year for individuals and for cautious businesses in good times. The net effect is that it’s only going to be done in a time and manner that disproportionately helps the “high flyers.”

I should add that they aren’t commensurately cutting back spending. They are spending the same (actually far more) while reducing tax revenues, meaning that they will have to make up for it in the future via higher taxes (on producers) or via inflation (punishing savers). So again, it’s disproportionately taking from the prudent and competent and giving to the reckless and less competent. It’s the old capitalist argument; resources should be marshalled by those who are most competent to use them effectively in the long term, and this has the opposite effect.

All that said I acknowledge that this is small time compared to some of the shenanigans that they have undertaken. It’s just particularly comical and backwards in how it manifests itself with the builders.

Rich

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]What irks me most about the entire premise is this presumption that others will not take the opportunity given the vacancy generated by lack of business x, y, or z being present. To me it does not matter if it is banking or home building or the homeowner in distress. To me these voids would have been filled in one way, shape or form over time. That there could have been a controlled form of chaos but that the outcome would have been a much much stronger vibrant economy with a stable base. Toll would not have been out on the street and the possible construction workers would have found work.

I don’t drink the end of the world cool aid that we would have all been in tent cities if we didn’t take these steps in 2007 and 2008. I am sorry for that. The absolute flushing of trillions of dollars is breatheless to me. Again I believe a fraction of that could have been used to support essential infrastructure that would have needed it if the unwinding would have been allowed to occur.

Instead we have continued plundering and pummelling of taxpayer dollars that MUST BE MAINTAINED until the ship is righted which will not happen for quite awhile.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, SDR. Good post.

Perhaps we should all be desensitized to all the bailouts by this point. It’s becoming exhausting trying to keep up with the tremendous amount of waste (bailouts) when really important budgets are being cut in education, infrastructure, etc. We could have put all this money to such good use (energy independence, infrastructure, medical and technological R&D, etc.), but instead our politicians chose to bail out the very people who brought this country to its knees. That’s what I have a problem with.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]What irks me most about the entire premise is this presumption that others will not take the opportunity given the vacancy generated by lack of business x, y, or z being present. To me it does not matter if it is banking or home building or the homeowner in distress. To me these voids would have been filled in one way, shape or form over time. That there could have been a controlled form of chaos but that the outcome would have been a much much stronger vibrant economy with a stable base. Toll would not have been out on the street and the possible construction workers would have found work.

I don’t drink the end of the world cool aid that we would have all been in tent cities if we didn’t take these steps in 2007 and 2008. I am sorry for that. The absolute flushing of trillions of dollars is breatheless to me. Again I believe a fraction of that could have been used to support essential infrastructure that would have needed it if the unwinding would have been allowed to occur.

Instead we have continued plundering and pummelling of taxpayer dollars that MUST BE MAINTAINED until the ship is righted which will not happen for quite awhile.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, SDR. Good post.

Perhaps we should all be desensitized to all the bailouts by this point. It’s becoming exhausting trying to keep up with the tremendous amount of waste (bailouts) when really important budgets are being cut in education, infrastructure, etc. We could have put all this money to such good use (energy independence, infrastructure, medical and technological R&D, etc.), but instead our politicians chose to bail out the very people who brought this country to its knees. That’s what I have a problem with.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]What irks me most about the entire premise is this presumption that others will not take the opportunity given the vacancy generated by lack of business x, y, or z being present. To me it does not matter if it is banking or home building or the homeowner in distress. To me these voids would have been filled in one way, shape or form over time. That there could have been a controlled form of chaos but that the outcome would have been a much much stronger vibrant economy with a stable base. Toll would not have been out on the street and the possible construction workers would have found work.

I don’t drink the end of the world cool aid that we would have all been in tent cities if we didn’t take these steps in 2007 and 2008. I am sorry for that. The absolute flushing of trillions of dollars is breatheless to me. Again I believe a fraction of that could have been used to support essential infrastructure that would have needed it if the unwinding would have been allowed to occur.

Instead we have continued plundering and pummelling of taxpayer dollars that MUST BE MAINTAINED until the ship is righted which will not happen for quite awhile.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, SDR. Good post.

Perhaps we should all be desensitized to all the bailouts by this point. It’s becoming exhausting trying to keep up with the tremendous amount of waste (bailouts) when really important budgets are being cut in education, infrastructure, etc. We could have put all this money to such good use (energy independence, infrastructure, medical and technological R&D, etc.), but instead our politicians chose to bail out the very people who brought this country to its knees. That’s what I have a problem with.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]What irks me most about the entire premise is this presumption that others will not take the opportunity given the vacancy generated by lack of business x, y, or z being present. To me it does not matter if it is banking or home building or the homeowner in distress. To me these voids would have been filled in one way, shape or form over time. That there could have been a controlled form of chaos but that the outcome would have been a much much stronger vibrant economy with a stable base. Toll would not have been out on the street and the possible construction workers would have found work.

I don’t drink the end of the world cool aid that we would have all been in tent cities if we didn’t take these steps in 2007 and 2008. I am sorry for that. The absolute flushing of trillions of dollars is breatheless to me. Again I believe a fraction of that could have been used to support essential infrastructure that would have needed it if the unwinding would have been allowed to occur.

Instead we have continued plundering and pummelling of taxpayer dollars that MUST BE MAINTAINED until the ship is righted which will not happen for quite awhile.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, SDR. Good post.

Perhaps we should all be desensitized to all the bailouts by this point. It’s becoming exhausting trying to keep up with the tremendous amount of waste (bailouts) when really important budgets are being cut in education, infrastructure, etc. We could have put all this money to such good use (energy independence, infrastructure, medical and technological R&D, etc.), but instead our politicians chose to bail out the very people who brought this country to its knees. That’s what I have a problem with.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]What irks me most about the entire premise is this presumption that others will not take the opportunity given the vacancy generated by lack of business x, y, or z being present. To me it does not matter if it is banking or home building or the homeowner in distress. To me these voids would have been filled in one way, shape or form over time. That there could have been a controlled form of chaos but that the outcome would have been a much much stronger vibrant economy with a stable base. Toll would not have been out on the street and the possible construction workers would have found work.

I don’t drink the end of the world cool aid that we would have all been in tent cities if we didn’t take these steps in 2007 and 2008. I am sorry for that. The absolute flushing of trillions of dollars is breatheless to me. Again I believe a fraction of that could have been used to support essential infrastructure that would have needed it if the unwinding would have been allowed to occur.

Instead we have continued plundering and pummelling of taxpayer dollars that MUST BE MAINTAINED until the ship is righted which will not happen for quite awhile.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more, SDR. Good post.

Perhaps we should all be desensitized to all the bailouts by this point. It’s becoming exhausting trying to keep up with the tremendous amount of waste (bailouts) when really important budgets are being cut in education, infrastructure, etc. We could have put all this money to such good use (energy independence, infrastructure, medical and technological R&D, etc.), but instead our politicians chose to bail out the very people who brought this country to its knees. That’s what I have a problem with.

[scaredyclassic]

i was thinking about the tax implications of forgiven mortgage debt while the housing boom was under way. I occasionally would try to explain this as a risk to people during the housing boom and was met witha dull cattle-like expression. of course, i was the dumb one, as that was one fot he first bits of legislation passed. i remember feeling slightly forlorn and idiotic when that liability was taken off the table. Course, i had some tax background, and was thinking way too cautiously and far ahead of the game, way outtthinking myself. Taxes matter. Or they should. we make decisions based on tax implications. even a cautious fellow like myself would think the taxation on forgiveness of indebtedness will probably go to the wayside int eh event of another similar crash. Rewards recklessness…

[scaredyclassic]

i was thinking about the tax implications of forgiven mortgage debt while the housing boom was under way. I occasionally would try to explain this as a risk to people during the housing boom and was met witha dull cattle-like expression. of course, i was the dumb one, as that was one fot he first bits of legislation passed. i remember feeling slightly forlorn and idiotic when that liability was taken off the table. Course, i had some tax background, and was thinking way too cautiously and far ahead of the game, way outtthinking myself. Taxes matter. Or they should. we make decisions based on tax implications. even a cautious fellow like myself would think the taxation on forgiveness of indebtedness will probably go to the wayside int eh event of another similar crash. Rewards recklessness…

[scaredyclassic]

i was thinking about the tax implications of forgiven mortgage debt while the housing boom was under way. I occasionally would try to explain this as a risk to people during the housing boom and was met witha dull cattle-like expression. of course, i was the dumb one, as that was one fot he first bits of legislation passed. i remember feeling slightly forlorn and idiotic when that liability was taken off the table. Course, i had some tax background, and was thinking way too cautiously and far ahead of the game, way outtthinking myself. Taxes matter. Or they should. we make decisions based on tax implications. even a cautious fellow like myself would think the taxation on forgiveness of indebtedness will probably go to the wayside int eh event of another similar crash. Rewards recklessness…

[scaredyclassic]

i was thinking about the tax implications of forgiven mortgage debt while the housing boom was under way. I occasionally would try to explain this as a risk to people during the housing boom and was met witha dull cattle-like expression. of course, i was the dumb one, as that was one fot he first bits of legislation passed. i remember feeling slightly forlorn and idiotic when that liability was taken off the table. Course, i had some tax background, and was thinking way too cautiously and far ahead of the game, way outtthinking myself. Taxes matter. Or they should. we make decisions based on tax implications. even a cautious fellow like myself would think the taxation on forgiveness of indebtedness will probably go to the wayside int eh event of another similar crash. Rewards recklessness…

[scaredyclassic]

i was thinking about the tax implications of forgiven mortgage debt while the housing boom was under way. I occasionally would try to explain this as a risk to people during the housing boom and was met witha dull cattle-like expression. of course, i was the dumb one, as that was one fot he first bits of legislation passed. i remember feeling slightly forlorn and idiotic when that liability was taken off the table. Course, i had some tax background, and was thinking way too cautiously and far ahead of the game, way outtthinking myself. Taxes matter. Or they should. we make decisions based on tax implications. even a cautious fellow like myself would think the taxation on forgiveness of indebtedness will probably go to the wayside int eh event of another similar crash. Rewards recklessness…

[SD Realtor]

CAR I know… It is hard not to get bummed about it. You and I have to figure out a way to make some moola off of it.

[SD Realtor]

CAR I know… It is hard not to get bummed about it. You and I have to figure out a way to make some moola off of it.

[SD Realtor]

CAR I know… It is hard not to get bummed about it. You and I have to figure out a way to make some moola off of it.

[SD Realtor]

CAR I know… It is hard not to get bummed about it. You and I have to figure out a way to make some moola off of it.

[Author]

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