Aging population and housing

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]CAr – outside of CA, commercial property is often taxed at a higher rate than residential as regards value.

As far as schools, I have a really bad feeling about punishing kids for the crimes of their parents by denying them an education. If anything that would increase crime.[/quote]

Yes, that may be the case in other states, but it’s not the case in California.

Agree about not punishing the kids, which is why the kids would be entitled to a public education, but the cost would be borne by their parents’ employers. It would be illegal to employ someone without paying the full cost of luring people here from other countries. The punishment for the crime would involve steep fines and the potential to lose their business assets.

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi]CAr, what I said is pretty factual.

Nativist. You’d probably admit to that.

Paranoid. You latch on to some words that some public figure spoke as evidence that there is a conspiracy to take over US territory.

If you believe that our system is so good, then why would anyone want to separate and join Mexico?

Xenophobia. Your insistence that people adopt your language and your culture show exactly that. In reality, culture is fluid and ever changing. Immigrants bring their culture here; and over time, they change and we change.

spd has a good understanding of nationalism. For example Italy used to be many independent states. So was Germany. Previously, the English could accept a foreign king or queen. People could accept their leaders speaking foreign languages and eating foreign cuisine.[/quote]

Those aren’t the words of some random public figure. This is a major movement within the Latin American community, and it’s particularly powerful among those who advocate for “immigration reform.”

No, I don’t believe that it’s wrong to want to maintain one’s culture and way of life. The vast majority of humans would prefer to maintain their culture and way of life, or improve upon their way of life. Nobody (except you, apparently) wants to lose their position in the world’s cultural and economic hierarchy. This is perfectly normal.

And if you want to take a look at the Germans, consider the fact that the Germanic peoples are far more alike than Native Americans are to European-Americans or to African-Americans or to Asian-Americans. Yet, there is still friction among the Germanic people. How can you expect to have people who are far more diverse live together in a harmonious way in a world of finite resources? Can you name an example when/where this has ever worked out in the long run (and example where the REALITY matches the ideology of a truly peaceful and harmonious coexistence)? Has there ever been an instance where the majority population of a host country was dramatically outnumbered and overwhelmed over a few decades by a very disparate population and everything evolved without some sort of conflict? Oftentimes, the conflicts lead to major wars.

But, more than anything else, it’s about economics: WE DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO TAKE CARE OF THE WORLD’S POOR. We can handle a limited number at any given time, but a major and continuous influx is totally unworkable, IMO.

[CA renter]

[quote=Jazzman][quote=spdrun][quote=CA renter]I’ve had Mexican-American friends tell me that the Mexicans were going to “take back” their territory in a bloodless war, simply by out-populating the white Americans. [/quote]

Think about what you’re saying.

Real question is, so what if they do and the US west ends up majority Mexican/Latino? How does that affect you? I don’t think that anyone is seriously proposing that Upper California should rejoin Mexico — most immigrants come here to escape bad political conditions down there.

Also, intermarriage tends to be more common among children of Latino immigrants, so we might end up with a “Californian” identity rather than a “Mexican” one in 100 years.

In short, who cares, unless you have some outdated notions of ethnic purity?

And this is an AWESOME trend. One out of five Californians now marries outside their race…
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/interracial-marriages-u-s-hit-all-time-high-4-8-million-article-1.1023643%5B/quote%5D
I have never understood this argument. California was part of Mexico which was a Spanish colony, and was only part of an independent Mexico for about forty years. Interestingly, DNA shows indigenous peoples on the north American continent came from the same place as Europeans. The Asian migration and subsequent influence came later. We all much more related that we realize.[/quote]

Agree with this.

[CA renter]

[quote=Jazzman]

Actually, people do change political beliefs and I definitely think they are influenced more by environment than genes. If you want to influence someone’s thinking then don;t shout at them and tell them they are wrong. We have lost the ability to be impartial. It’s either my way of the highway, black or white, republican or democrat. In reality, most issues are shades of grey, but we’ve become egotistical, opinionated bigots and the media loves it.[/quote]

Yes, people can probably change over time, but Brian seems to think that the ideological divide is between those who want to hold onto the past vs. those who want to keep changing things. I think the divide is between those who want to do what’s best for themselves vs. what’s best for society at large. As a teacher and parent, it’s been fascinating to watch how inborn some of these traits are. Some children are naturally selfless, generous, and considerate; and others are naturally selfish, greedy and inconsiderate. I’ve been surprised to see how innate some of these traits are.

You are totally correct about most things being on a spectrum where the majority is grey, yet so many people only think in binary terms. It’s one of our greatest problems when trying to communicate and understand one another, IMHO.

[CA renter]

[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter][…]I’ve had Mexican-American friends tell me that the Mexicans were going to “take back” their territory in a bloodless war, simply by out-populating the white Americans.[…][/quote]

Well with friends like that…

God help us if the brown people outnumber the whites!

Looks like you have nearly a dozen posts here in the past day or so – I haven’t read them all but a quick skim shows you are really agonizing over this issue.

Goddamn, you really are a hardcore racist.[/quote]

Troll much?

This applies to you, too. These terms have lost their meaning and effectiveness, thanks to people like you.

[quote=CA renter]

Brian, the “racist, xenophobic, bigoted, paranoid, nativist (as a negative)” labels are overused and worn out. They have been used as a means to censor those with dissenting opinions; therefore, they are 100% invalid. Name-calling doesn’t work; try arguing with facts and logic, instead.

[/quote]

[CA renter]

[quote=Jazzman][quote=deadzone]Perhaps only extremists are lobbying for literally open borders. However, all of this talk (mostly from liberals) about immigration “reform” is certainly implying an open border policy. As immigration “reform” really means amnesty.

Well if we as a society are going to say its okay for millions of people to enter the country illegally, break our immigration laws, work illegally (in many cases using fraudulent ID/SSN)and then get rewarded with green card and eventual citizenship, we are basically saying that our existing borders and immigration laws mean nothing.[/quote]

I don’t think it’s that simple. They are here so what do you do with them? You’d need a pretty big ship. Then there’e the vote, cheap labor that so many benefit from, public outcry from forced repatriation, and potential humanitarian crisis across the border. The horse has bolted but I guess you can still close the barn door.[/quote]

Take away the bait (jobs, free schooling, free healthcare, etc.) and the fish swim away. It doesn’t require a single ship, truck, train, or bus.

[spdrun]

I think that the % of Latinos who seriously believe in the Aztlanista bullshyte is about the same as the % of WASPs who are KKK members. Most are here to actually improve their conditions, not join with a country that they ran away from…

And bullshyte it is — the Aztec empire never extended into CONUS. Also, don’t lump all Latinos together, unless they have Mexican or Guatemalan ancestry, there’s really no reason to buy into the Aztlan crap at all.

[an]

CAR, you might not have to worry about the Latinos infiltrating America if the current trend continues. You should be worried about the Asians: http://newamericamedia.org/2015/10/asian-immigrants-likely-to-overtake-hispanics-in-us-population.php

OMG, the Asians are coming, the Asians are coming…

[CA renter]

[quote=spdrun]I think that the % of Latinos who seriously believe in the Aztlanista bullshyte is about the same as the % of WASPs who are KKK members. Most are here to actually improve their conditions, not join with a country that they ran away from…

And bullshyte it is — the Aztec empire never extended into CONUS. Also, don’t lump all Latinos together, unless they have Mexican or Guatemalan ancestry, there’s really no reason to buy into the Aztlan crap at all.[/quote]

We’ll have to respectfully disagree about that. Please do some more research on this to see what this movement is about.

BTW, I’m not talking about the lower-level immigrants who are desperately seeking a way out of a hopeless situation in their own countries. The “Atzlan” folks are more powerful, and they are prominent in the immigration reform movement here in the U.S. They exploit the poor workers who come pouring over our border and use them to further strengthen their movement.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter][…] the “racist, xenophobic, bigoted, paranoid, nativist (as a negative)” labels are overused and worn out. They have been used as a means to censor those with dissenting opinions; therefore, they are 100% invalid. [/quote]

These words have also been used to accurately describe opinions that are racist, xenophobic, bigoted, paranoid, and nativist (that last one is kinda ironic…)

You sure have put some energy into making arguments that match those terms precisely. This thread alone is ample evidence.

Words have meaning.

You really think you can erase character flaws by erasing words from the dictionary?

As for the specifics of immigration policy: Of course we don’t have enough resources to take care of all of the world’s poor. Nobody has proposed such an extreme solution except you in your strawman.

Our society is quite wealthy and we can afford to do many things – it’s just a matter of priorities. I’d much rather see my tax dollars go toward educating immigrant children than to see it go toward supporting the comfortable lifestyle of a fifty-five year old public-sector retiree.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Jazzman][quote=deadzone]Perhaps only extremists are lobbying for literally open borders. However, all of this talk (mostly from liberals) about immigration “reform” is certainly implying an open border policy. As immigration “reform” really means amnesty.

Well if we as a society are going to say its okay for millions of people to enter the country illegally, break our immigration laws, work illegally (in many cases using fraudulent ID/SSN)and then get rewarded with green card and eventual citizenship, we are basically saying that our existing borders and immigration laws mean nothing.[/quote]

I don’t think it’s that simple. They are here so what do you do with them? You’d need a pretty big ship. Then there’e the vote, cheap labor that so many benefit from, public outcry from forced repatriation, and potential humanitarian crisis across the border. The horse has bolted but I guess you can still close the barn door.[/quote]

At some point you have to close the barn door. Rewarding amnesty for everybody that is here illegally is just an open invitation for the world. At that point, may as well just have open door policy then and stop wasting money on border fences and border patrol.

And solution isn’t mass deportations, just workplace enforcement, e-verify for a start

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter][quote=harvey][quote=CA renter][…]I’ve had Mexican-American friends tell me that the Mexicans were going to “take back” their territory in a bloodless war, simply by out-populating the white Americans.[…][/quote]

Well with friends like that…

God help us if the brown people outnumber the whites!

Looks like you have nearly a dozen posts here in the past day or so – I haven’t read them all but a quick skim shows you are really agonizing over this issue.

Goddamn, you really are a hardcore racist.[/quote]

Troll much?[/quote]

Good L@rd …. pri_dk, you ARE trolling again. I want to know exactly what a “Mexican” or “Mexican American” looks like to you.

Mexicans or “Hispanics” are actually of the Caucasian race so, uhhh, technically, they’re “white people.”

Regions with significant populations
The following countries have a census category for “white”. Many other countries have significant populations which are considered white, but do not have such a category.

United States 223,553,265
Hispanic America 144,496,999
Russia 113,545,521
Brazil 91,051,646
United Kingdom 54,153,898
South Africa 4,586,838

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

You must agree that it’s not that easy to tell many “Mexicans” or “Mexican Americans” apart from “other Whites” these days.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter][quote=spdrun]CAr – outside of CA, commercial property is often taxed at a higher rate than residential as regards value.

As far as schools, I have a really bad feeling about punishing kids for the crimes of their parents by denying them an education. If anything that would increase crime.[/quote]

Yes, that may be the case in other states, but it’s not the case in California.

Agree about not punishing the kids, which is why the kids would be entitled to a public education, but the cost would be borne by their parents’ employers. It would be illegal to employ someone without paying the full cost of luring people here from other countries. The punishment for the crime would involve steep fines and the potential to lose their business assets.[/quote]

Agree with this fix wholeheartedly.

Thousands of “Mexican” kids (yes, crossing the US border every single weekday) attend US public schools and community college in SD and Imperial counties. They are often dropped off at school or the trolley station/bus stop by their parents or other relatives on their way to work to their job in the US. They use fake addresses in the US and pay (monthly or a lump sum per school year) friends and relatives on this side of the border to sign an affidavit for the school district stating that they are the “guardian” of said student(s). (The school districts do not require these “guardians” to be court-appointed.) The guardian then submits their lease agreement/deed showing that they have the right to occupy said address and at least one utility bill with the guardian’s name on it and presto, another SD County K-12 student is created out of thin air!

This happens done every single April thru August in every single school district and nearly every K-12 school in the county is affected by this phenomenon … some MUCH moreso than others.

Ask yourself why your kid’s public school has no more room for new students whose families just (legitimately) moved into the attendance area. This phenomenon plays a HUGE part in why many schools are so crowded and no district superintendent is ever going to fix it of their own volition. The reason is because each district gets paid by the state for each student’s warm body that fills a seat every single day. It’s all a numbers game to them and with a wink and a nod by the super, it’s been going on as long as I can remember …. and I have a l-o-o-o-ng memory :-0

[bearishgurl]

Don’t believe me? Well, get yourself a large mug of coffee and head on down to the Iris Ave trolley station, arriving between 6:30 and 6:45 on any non-holiday weekday morning this fall. Just sit on the bench until about 7:45 am and watch all the kids with backpacks get dropped off from vehicles with Mexican plates to board the trolley headed northbound.

Based upon the color of the khakis many of them are wearing, I could almost tell you with pinpoint accuracy which public school … or which group of schools they’re headed to.

It’s not rocket science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Avenue_%28San_Diego_Trolley_station%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Line_%28San_Diego_Trolley%29

[bearishgurl]

Back to the OP … brian, do you not think if the US borders were closed to further immigration tomorrow that the US does not now have enough people to sustain it now and on into the future?

And is the US somehow going to be short workers and professionals in every field if they don’t keep accepting H1B visa applications, etc??

And lastly, who do you think does the vast majority of “grunt work” in northern states and in flyover country states which are more than 1000 miles from the US border? I’m speaking here of cattle ranching, sheep herding, hay baling and transport, septic/leachfield cleanout, truck loading and unloading, running farming equipment and other heavy equipment, collecting eggs, milking, cleaning out slaughterhouses, etc …. Um, more often than not, it’s “white” and “black” people . . . usually longtime residents or natives of that area and/or state … or “heirs” of the farm or ranch they’re working on. Every single agricultural area in the US isn’t completely infiltrated with “Mexicans.”

If there were no illegal workers in CA performing these duties, then the legal residents would have to take them over, plain and simple. If your longtime home is off the SR-99 for example, you have to take whatever job is available at the time or move. I know several people, who by all observations, look “white and are “white” but grew up in the likes of Delhi, Merced, Colusa, Turlock, Lodi, Visalia, etc. Most in their 60’s now, they never wanted to leave their family members behind and thus never moved away from their hometowns. All their lives, they worked at whatever jobs were available in their areas and some of them are still working part-time.

CA doesn’t need illegal immigrants and it certainly doesn’t need any more. Unfunded Federal mandates to take care of every undocumented worker and their families (medically, keeping food banks stocked, schooling w/”free breakfast/lunch program”) is absolutely financially crippling this state and many of its counties to the point where many local public agencies can barely function and run out of money long before June 30 every year.

[Author]

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