A piggington theme

[beachlover]

Let me start by saying I’ve learned a good deal about real estate and economics by reading all of the information on this web site.

Still, I’m a little uncomfortable with the zeal that the “sharks” who post on this board see in each NOD, foreclosure, short sale and below market value listing. While I’m certain that there is a satisfaction in being “correct”, I don’t understand why anyone would want someone to lose their home, or find themselves in significant financial difficulty.

Understand, I’m not the investor that you cherish to bash. I’ve owned my home for more than 20 years, never refinanced or used it as a ATM, and now, because of family reasons I’m looking to sell and buy another “better” house for those same family reasons. I find myself being caught up in a bad financial market that I didn’t create.

While I’ve applied much of the reason of pigs… I guess I’m hoping that I (and others like me) aren’t going to be tossed around as statistics on this web site.

There is a bit of an uncomfortable-ness that has folks on this web site cheering every down side of the American economic indicators, and expressing feelings of happiness when the real estate and other markets start to crash…. jeepers folks….I hope you’ll take a moment to step and realize that what is happening on the economic front is going to hurt a lot of people. Maybe not you, oh wise pigs, but your friends, neighbors and family. Standing on the sidelines and cheering other peoples downfall is …. well… fill in your blank.

I throw this thought out for your consideration.

[JWM in SD]

“There is a bit of an uncomfortable-ness that has folks on this web site cheering every down side of the American economic indicators, and expressing feelings of happiness when the real estate and other markets start to crash”

Cheering every down side?!?!?! You mean like cheering the fact that the dollar has declined almost 10% in a year?? I sure as hell am not cheering that. I will cheer when I see some douchebag realtor or mortgage broker who has screwing people for the past 5 years get their comeuppance. Unfortunately, people are going to lose their homes…nobody was complaining on the way up were they? Were they? No.

[cashman]

I sympathize with you beachlover, as I have been bashed in a recent post here by JWM for simply voicing my frustrations as a renter. Seems like many of the people here (not all) rejoice in people’s misery and gloat when market conditions prove them right. And some feel offended by someone like me who was fortunate enough to sell and put their money in cash. I’ve learned in life that the little people are bothered and inwardly jealous of other peoples’ success, while the smart ones ask questions and learn from their accomplishments. Got a feeling you’re in the latter group.

[JWM in SD]

“I sympathize with you beachlover, as I have been bashed in a recent post here by JWM for simply voicing my frustrations as a renter.”

No, I bashed you because your post was arrogant and foolish.

[cashman]

JWM, it’s people like you that give this fine site a black eye. I’ve read your comments on many threads and you exhibit an arrogance and insensitivity that is second to none. I nominate you for Professor Piggington’s dunce cap.

[Portlock]

I think JMW is doing a fine job, his comments may come across as callous, but he’s generally on the money.

[Portlock]

I think JMW is doing a fine job, his comments may come across as callous, but he’s generally on the money.

[patientlywaiting]

I’m with JWM in this case.

However, perhaps Piggingtons need a new marketing approach.

To me cheering the reset in real estate is positive. The economy will be stronger when normal folks can comfortably afford homes. Working folks will then be able to focus their resources on quality of life rather than real estate. We should be focusing on producing things that improve our standard of living, not sell non-productive, over-priced real estate to each other. What’s so bad about that.

It’s a glass half-full, half-empty kinda thing.

[patientlywaiting]

I’m with JWM in this case.

However, perhaps Piggingtons need a new marketing approach.

To me cheering the reset in real estate is positive. The economy will be stronger when normal folks can comfortably afford homes. Working folks will then be able to focus their resources on quality of life rather than real estate. We should be focusing on producing things that improve our standard of living, not sell non-productive, over-priced real estate to each other. What’s so bad about that.

It’s a glass half-full, half-empty kinda thing.

[San Diego Native]

beachlover

You certainly don’t have to apologize for enjoying the San Diego lifestyle for over 20 years and wishing to move forward again. We have friends who are in the same situation–long-time San Diego residents with great homes that were paid off long ago (even though we’re all only in our 40’s)and lotsa cash–waiting for the right time to move up again.

Like you, they are fully aware of the real estate situation in San Diego County, and are being very careful. They have everything they want, are grateful for what they have, and would never wish anything but the best for others.

Probably best just to ignore miserable people, and focus on advice from those who have achieved their ultimate goals. After all, they are the ones who have proven themselves in life.

Good luck in your quest!!

[San Diego Native]

beachlover

You certainly don’t have to apologize for enjoying the San Diego lifestyle for over 20 years and wishing to move forward again. We have friends who are in the same situation–long-time San Diego residents with great homes that were paid off long ago (even though we’re all only in our 40’s)and lotsa cash–waiting for the right time to move up again.

Like you, they are fully aware of the real estate situation in San Diego County, and are being very careful. They have everything they want, are grateful for what they have, and would never wish anything but the best for others.

Probably best just to ignore miserable people, and focus on advice from those who have achieved their ultimate goals. After all, they are the ones who have proven themselves in life.

Good luck in your quest!!

[temeculaguy]

Here we go again, “MOM, HE’S TOUCHING ME”

cash, when you wan’t to show empathy to someone, tell an ambiguous story and don’t name names, otherwise it is actually just another way to pick a fight. JWM can be a bully but you just baited him, you called him out in front of his peeps so you can’t complain if you get a black eye.

No nominations, no caps, everyone back to ther corners.

[temeculaguy]

Here we go again, “MOM, HE’S TOUCHING ME”

cash, when you wan’t to show empathy to someone, tell an ambiguous story and don’t name names, otherwise it is actually just another way to pick a fight. JWM can be a bully but you just baited him, you called him out in front of his peeps so you can’t complain if you get a black eye.

No nominations, no caps, everyone back to ther corners.

[cashman]

JWM, it’s people like you that give this fine site a black eye. I’ve read your comments on many threads and you exhibit an arrogance and insensitivity that is second to none. I nominate you for Professor Piggington’s dunce cap.

[JWM in SD]

“I sympathize with you beachlover, as I have been bashed in a recent post here by JWM for simply voicing my frustrations as a renter.”

No, I bashed you because your post was arrogant and foolish.

[drunkle]

sure. if home prices maintained or continued inflating, it’d be great. you’d be a paper millionaire without having lifted a finger. how great is that? college grads, kids who are just joining the work force… meh. screw em. push them out to temecula or alpine or borrego and make them commute. make them drive 2 to 4 hours a day in order to come in and work serving the equityaires. they’re too stupid to buy, they’re too stupid to not have been born rich, that’s their own fault.

yeah, keep that pyramid going forever. nevermind if the supply of “home buyer’s” evaporates, make the fed print more money. dumb fcks in idaho who have low housing costs should have to pay via taxes and inflation to support the brilliant equityaires in san diego.

i can’t continue, the idea that home prices should continue ballooning is utterly retarded. there’s zero benefit to it, if you had a brain and thought about the long term consequences, you wouldn’t be asking such a dumb question. the housing orgy and the subsequent bust have massive potential for disrupting the global economy. think about that. think about the problems that these people have caused.

but it’s not about the people who are suffering. it’s about the market correcting. callousness towards someone featured in some fluff news piece is completely impersonal and tangent to the issue. even knowing people who bought in at the wrong time (which i do), they made a mistake and they’ll pay for it. everyone makes mistakes, honest people pay for it. smart people learn from it. that’s life. the market correcting sooner rather than later is just plain prudence. what would you rather have, a little pain from iodine or fricking gangrene?

cashman: a lot of “little people” were sucked into the housing orgy. they were jealous of “other people’s success”, “listened and learned from them” and wanted their slice of the pie. seems like you’re doing exactly what you spurn, debasement of people suffering personal tragedies. get over yourself.

[drunkle]

sure. if home prices maintained or continued inflating, it’d be great. you’d be a paper millionaire without having lifted a finger. how great is that? college grads, kids who are just joining the work force… meh. screw em. push them out to temecula or alpine or borrego and make them commute. make them drive 2 to 4 hours a day in order to come in and work serving the equityaires. they’re too stupid to buy, they’re too stupid to not have been born rich, that’s their own fault.

yeah, keep that pyramid going forever. nevermind if the supply of “home buyer’s” evaporates, make the fed print more money. dumb fcks in idaho who have low housing costs should have to pay via taxes and inflation to support the brilliant equityaires in san diego.

i can’t continue, the idea that home prices should continue ballooning is utterly retarded. there’s zero benefit to it, if you had a brain and thought about the long term consequences, you wouldn’t be asking such a dumb question. the housing orgy and the subsequent bust have massive potential for disrupting the global economy. think about that. think about the problems that these people have caused.

but it’s not about the people who are suffering. it’s about the market correcting. callousness towards someone featured in some fluff news piece is completely impersonal and tangent to the issue. even knowing people who bought in at the wrong time (which i do), they made a mistake and they’ll pay for it. everyone makes mistakes, honest people pay for it. smart people learn from it. that’s life. the market correcting sooner rather than later is just plain prudence. what would you rather have, a little pain from iodine or fricking gangrene?

cashman: a lot of “little people” were sucked into the housing orgy. they were jealous of “other people’s success”, “listened and learned from them” and wanted their slice of the pie. seems like you’re doing exactly what you spurn, debasement of people suffering personal tragedies. get over yourself.

[cashman]

I sympathize with you beachlover, as I have been bashed in a recent post here by JWM for simply voicing my frustrations as a renter. Seems like many of the people here (not all) rejoice in people’s misery and gloat when market conditions prove them right. And some feel offended by someone like me who was fortunate enough to sell and put their money in cash. I’ve learned in life that the little people are bothered and inwardly jealous of other peoples’ success, while the smart ones ask questions and learn from their accomplishments. Got a feeling you’re in the latter group.

[JWM in SD]

“There is a bit of an uncomfortable-ness that has folks on this web site cheering every down side of the American economic indicators, and expressing feelings of happiness when the real estate and other markets start to crash”

Cheering every down side?!?!?! You mean like cheering the fact that the dollar has declined almost 10% in a year?? I sure as hell am not cheering that. I will cheer when I see some douchebag realtor or mortgage broker who has screwing people for the past 5 years get their comeuppance. Unfortunately, people are going to lose their homes…nobody was complaining on the way up were they? Were they? No.

[luxuryglow]

Beachlover,

Do what you have to do and try not to be emotional about. Try not to rationalize everyones comments and posts and be sensitive about it.

I am not in defense of the people who posts in this board, but you have to be objective when you join blogs like this, nor just with everyday dealing with people…

I’ve been learning a great deal from this site. Take it for what it’s worth. Toughen up!

[waiting hawk]

guy where in the hell were you the last decade when houses went up 300%? That is the real problem not anyone cheering that housing is getting in range to buy. Wake the hell up.

[waiting hawk]

guy where in the hell were you the last decade when houses went up 300%? That is the real problem not anyone cheering that housing is getting in range to buy. Wake the hell up.

[luxuryglow]

Beachlover,

Do what you have to do and try not to be emotional about. Try not to rationalize everyones comments and posts and be sensitive about it.

I am not in defense of the people who posts in this board, but you have to be objective when you join blogs like this, nor just with everyday dealing with people…

I’ve been learning a great deal from this site. Take it for what it’s worth. Toughen up!

[temeculaguy]

beachlover, don’t fret I won’t bash you because you and many other readers fear entering the ring and because you didn’t ask some question that could be answered in the primer I will extend some courtesy.

About once a month we have someone come in and express their disdain for our callous reaction to the financial ruin of others. I think you will find the majority of the regulars are charitible individuals who also care about their fellow man. That said, you cannot possibly take the side of the overextended buyers. For every uneducated, unsophisticated buyer that had no idea what they were doing I will find you twenty that were greedy, lived beyond their means and even told others to do the same. You didn’t and now you need to sell your house and buy a larger one. It doesn’t matter if you get less for your home, you will pay less for the next one, therefore you are immune to the market moves. Even better, you will have a lower tax basis on the new one so you actually win. Your desire to have pity on people who are being foreclosed on is flawed and biased, you benefitted from the greed of others, raising your value, even at today’s prices if you sell you are ripping off some victim who buys from you, they should pay half what you think your house is worth. You are stealing their kids college money. This isn’t an attack on you, you didn’t plan it and it’s not your fault, but you are doing it. From your perspective you can find victims but there are many more victims that aren’t getting any media attention or sympathy from you. Those young families or college graduate couples who see that they will never be able to afford their own home, who weeps for them. Well, I do. I supervise many of them, who went to school, played by the rules and work very hard. At every point in history someone in their situation and point in their career could afford a home and even raise a family on their income, except for now. I root for them, they aren’t greedy and most of them refused to forgo food in order to own a home. Some have postponed having children while others give up some things we might consider neccesities in order to save for a home, only to see prices rise exponentially faster than their savings.

Over the last five years, carelessness has been rewarded, while prudence was punished. The table has turned and I am supposed to feel sorry for the victims, sorry, can’t do it. The only reason to take an interest only loan is if you are betting on appreciation. Bets don’t always pay off, if you can’t afford to lose, don’t play and for god sake don’t ask for my pity if you lose. Don’t ask me not to say I told so, because I did and now I will.

I also don’t hang out in casino parking lots and feel bad for people who lost money even thought they thought they would win. I should, at least those people don’t drive up the cost of living for young families.

I am off the soapbox now, welcome aboard, glad to have a new face around here and do not buy that new house until yours is sold and the loan is funded, live in a hotel or your car if you have to.

[cashflow]

Thank you TG for so eloquently explaining the pig. side of things.

Having just posted about foreclosure affecting 2 couples we know, I am not one to say I’m cheering on their demise. It is unfortunate, however both couples were living way beyond their means with no sense of financial responsibility, so we knew this was coming for a long time. Even having us to warn them and advise them against their spending/borrowing decisions, they continued living large.

This being said, it’s unfortunate that many people will have to learn the hard way to be responsible in their lives, but I can’t be totally sympathetic and forgiving of them when most were completely irresponsible. Again like TG said, this is at the cost of others. I am a Gen Xer myself and feel blessed that we got into real estate (and got out) when we were very young. However this is not the case for many of our friends. Like TG said, these couples are forgoing starting their families, etc, because they feel they should have a home first. They have been chasing the dream for years by saving, but still were not able to keep up with appreciation. You know how hopeless this can be.

Like others have said, in every correction there are losers, but there are also winners. Once prices come back down from the stratosphere, many first time buyers will be able to finally realize their dreams as well.

I think most that are experiencing a financial mess right now will also eventually be okay, and next time won’t be so irresponsible with their spending.

[cashflow]

Thank you TG for so eloquently explaining the pig. side of things.

Having just posted about foreclosure affecting 2 couples we know, I am not one to say I’m cheering on their demise. It is unfortunate, however both couples were living way beyond their means with no sense of financial responsibility, so we knew this was coming for a long time. Even having us to warn them and advise them against their spending/borrowing decisions, they continued living large.

This being said, it’s unfortunate that many people will have to learn the hard way to be responsible in their lives, but I can’t be totally sympathetic and forgiving of them when most were completely irresponsible. Again like TG said, this is at the cost of others. I am a Gen Xer myself and feel blessed that we got into real estate (and got out) when we were very young. However this is not the case for many of our friends. Like TG said, these couples are forgoing starting their families, etc, because they feel they should have a home first. They have been chasing the dream for years by saving, but still were not able to keep up with appreciation. You know how hopeless this can be.

Like others have said, in every correction there are losers, but there are also winners. Once prices come back down from the stratosphere, many first time buyers will be able to finally realize their dreams as well.

I think most that are experiencing a financial mess right now will also eventually be okay, and next time won’t be so irresponsible with their spending.

[temeculaguy]

beachlover, don’t fret I won’t bash you because you and many other readers fear entering the ring and because you didn’t ask some question that could be answered in the primer I will extend some courtesy.

About once a month we have someone come in and express their disdain for our callous reaction to the financial ruin of others. I think you will find the majority of the regulars are charitible individuals who also care about their fellow man. That said, you cannot possibly take the side of the overextended buyers. For every uneducated, unsophisticated buyer that had no idea what they were doing I will find you twenty that were greedy, lived beyond their means and even told others to do the same. You didn’t and now you need to sell your house and buy a larger one. It doesn’t matter if you get less for your home, you will pay less for the next one, therefore you are immune to the market moves. Even better, you will have a lower tax basis on the new one so you actually win. Your desire to have pity on people who are being foreclosed on is flawed and biased, you benefitted from the greed of others, raising your value, even at today’s prices if you sell you are ripping off some victim who buys from you, they should pay half what you think your house is worth. You are stealing their kids college money. This isn’t an attack on you, you didn’t plan it and it’s not your fault, but you are doing it. From your perspective you can find victims but there are many more victims that aren’t getting any media attention or sympathy from you. Those young families or college graduate couples who see that they will never be able to afford their own home, who weeps for them. Well, I do. I supervise many of them, who went to school, played by the rules and work very hard. At every point in history someone in their situation and point in their career could afford a home and even raise a family on their income, except for now. I root for them, they aren’t greedy and most of them refused to forgo food in order to own a home. Some have postponed having children while others give up some things we might consider neccesities in order to save for a home, only to see prices rise exponentially faster than their savings.

Over the last five years, carelessness has been rewarded, while prudence was punished. The table has turned and I am supposed to feel sorry for the victims, sorry, can’t do it. The only reason to take an interest only loan is if you are betting on appreciation. Bets don’t always pay off, if you can’t afford to lose, don’t play and for god sake don’t ask for my pity if you lose. Don’t ask me not to say I told so, because I did and now I will.

I also don’t hang out in casino parking lots and feel bad for people who lost money even thought they thought they would win. I should, at least those people don’t drive up the cost of living for young families.

I am off the soapbox now, welcome aboard, glad to have a new face around here and do not buy that new house until yours is sold and the loan is funded, live in a hotel or your car if you have to.

[patientlywaiting]

bleachlover, if you’ve owned your house more than 20 years, what are you worried about? It should be nearly paid off now so you can easily sell it.

Take the Piggington advice and rent for a while, then buy at the bottom. This real estate adjustment should benefit you because you’ll be able to get that “better” house for less.

Drunkle, I love the way you put it. 🙂 I wish I could write like that. Good writing that plainly puts it like it is.

[gandalf]

Right now you are down and out and feeling really crappy,
When I see how sad you are, it sort of makes me … happy?
Sorry Nicky, human nature, nothing I can do,
It’s Schadenfreude! Making me feel glad that I’m not you!

– Avenue Q, Schadenfreude

[gandalf]

Right now you are down and out and feeling really crappy,
When I see how sad you are, it sort of makes me … happy?
Sorry Nicky, human nature, nothing I can do,
It’s Schadenfreude! Making me feel glad that I’m not you!

– Avenue Q, Schadenfreude

[patientlywaiting]

bleachlover, if you’ve owned your house more than 20 years, what are you worried about? It should be nearly paid off now so you can easily sell it.

Take the Piggington advice and rent for a while, then buy at the bottom. This real estate adjustment should benefit you because you’ll be able to get that “better” house for less.

Drunkle, I love the way you put it. 🙂 I wish I could write like that. Good writing that plainly puts it like it is.

[eccen in esc]

eccen in esc
beachlover, we are not really pigs, but humans with human nature. Have you ever gossiped about someone behind their back or swore at another driver who couldn’t hear you? It’s like that – just all in good fun. There are some harsh posters and some really helpful posters and some harsh/helpful posters. It would be boring if everyone was nice. None of us like to see someone lose a home but their point is most of them did not do diligent/responsible financial planning. And we all want to see housing prices come down. It’s that simple.

[lendingbubblecontinues]

beachlover-

bullshit. you are not caught up in a bad financial market as you say…you must be one of those fools who isn’t going to “give it away” and is stubbornly asking TOO MUCH MONEY FOR YOUR DAMN HOUSE. this is a GREAT market for you if you simply price your house right (it will sell in a heartbeat) and then go drive a HARD bargain on some poor fool’s house that meets your move-up criteria.

So stop with the touchy-feely shit…let the schadenfreude be your best friend here.

[lendingbubblecontinues]

beachlover-

bullshit. you are not caught up in a bad financial market as you say…you must be one of those fools who isn’t going to “give it away” and is stubbornly asking TOO MUCH MONEY FOR YOUR DAMN HOUSE. this is a GREAT market for you if you simply price your house right (it will sell in a heartbeat) and then go drive a HARD bargain on some poor fool’s house that meets your move-up criteria.

So stop with the touchy-feely shit…let the schadenfreude be your best friend here.

[Navydoc]

I’m going to try to take the TG route and try to be nice, while still trying to explain why we feel the way we do. Let me ask you a question, did the couples you describe continually gloat about how much money they were making, and how if you’re not in on the game now, you’ll never get in? I know many people like this, and they would continually try to get me to “invest” in the market, one even trying to get me to buy one of their own properties! (They’re having some trouble unloading it now) I resisted, as the only finacing I would consider was 20% down and a fixed rate mortgage. The only problem was I was in the top 5% income bracket, and could only afford the median home! That simply insn’t fair, and doesn’t sit with the fundamentals. I understand that some people are going to learn a painful lesson from this, and I don’t really like to see people suffer but I can’t truly feel sorry for them if they chose to believe that the fundamental nature of the real estate market had changed. I bet they won’t forget it now though. And in order for me to enter the market at the level I desire and should be able to afford, I NEED a correction to take place.

Oh, and I agree, JWM can come off as a little insensitive, but the content of his posts tend to be quite accurate. I’ve learned a great deal from him over the months. Stay with us, you’ll come to understand us a little better in time.

[Ex-SD]

Navydoc, you hit the bullseye right in the middle with your post. I attended many a social gathering where people would constantly talk about all the money they were making from their constantly appreciating home. I would always tell them that what goes up will most likely come down but they didn’t want to hear it. Well, now it’s a different story and what goes around………..eventually comes back around to bite you in the ass.

[temeculaguy]

Ex-SD, now that I am all the rage at parties with my reverse flipper wisdom, if the market turns and doubles by the end of the year will people make a website and point out the folly of my thinking. God I hope not. Whether I’m right or wrong I don’t care, I’m working this at parties, respected by men, desired by women, I’m a rock star.

[temeculaguy]

Ex-SD, now that I am all the rage at parties with my reverse flipper wisdom, if the market turns and doubles by the end of the year will people make a website and point out the folly of my thinking. God I hope not. Whether I’m right or wrong I don’t care, I’m working this at parties, respected by men, desired by women, I’m a rock star.

[salo_t]

Its interesting that this topic just came up because I was sitting around thinking about the same thing recently.
As glad as I am to finally see the market start to correct I
keep thinking about all the family’s that are pretty much going through hell as they go through foreclosure.

Seeing all this makes me happy that I stuck to my principles and fundamentals and stayed the hell out of this market.
Its not our fault that money was being given away and people were allowed to make one bad decision after another buying up these over priced homes.
Most home buyers were so entrenched in the philosophy that you have to buy now that even trying to mentioning that the market was about to change would bring heckling from the new genius home investors.
This whole real estate mess is just another great example of the importance of being an informed buyer. Those who were informed made lots of money and those that weren’t lost everything. I don’t know how many people I told to wait and not buy but they did anyway and are in a huge financial mess. Should I still feel bad for them?

[salo_t]

Its interesting that this topic just came up because I was sitting around thinking about the same thing recently.
As glad as I am to finally see the market start to correct I
keep thinking about all the family’s that are pretty much going through hell as they go through foreclosure.

Seeing all this makes me happy that I stuck to my principles and fundamentals and stayed the hell out of this market.
Its not our fault that money was being given away and people were allowed to make one bad decision after another buying up these over priced homes.
Most home buyers were so entrenched in the philosophy that you have to buy now that even trying to mentioning that the market was about to change would bring heckling from the new genius home investors.
This whole real estate mess is just another great example of the importance of being an informed buyer. Those who were informed made lots of money and those that weren’t lost everything. I don’t know how many people I told to wait and not buy but they did anyway and are in a huge financial mess. Should I still feel bad for them?

[Ex-SD]

Navydoc, you hit the bullseye right in the middle with your post. I attended many a social gathering where people would constantly talk about all the money they were making from their constantly appreciating home. I would always tell them that what goes up will most likely come down but they didn’t want to hear it. Well, now it’s a different story and what goes around………..eventually comes back around to bite you in the ass.

[Navydoc]

I’m going to try to take the TG route and try to be nice, while still trying to explain why we feel the way we do. Let me ask you a question, did the couples you describe continually gloat about how much money they were making, and how if you’re not in on the game now, you’ll never get in? I know many people like this, and they would continually try to get me to “invest” in the market, one even trying to get me to buy one of their own properties! (They’re having some trouble unloading it now) I resisted, as the only finacing I would consider was 20% down and a fixed rate mortgage. The only problem was I was in the top 5% income bracket, and could only afford the median home! That simply insn’t fair, and doesn’t sit with the fundamentals. I understand that some people are going to learn a painful lesson from this, and I don’t really like to see people suffer but I can’t truly feel sorry for them if they chose to believe that the fundamental nature of the real estate market had changed. I bet they won’t forget it now though. And in order for me to enter the market at the level I desire and should be able to afford, I NEED a correction to take place.

Oh, and I agree, JWM can come off as a little insensitive, but the content of his posts tend to be quite accurate. I’ve learned a great deal from him over the months. Stay with us, you’ll come to understand us a little better in time.

[eccen in esc]

eccen in esc
beachlover, we are not really pigs, but humans with human nature. Have you ever gossiped about someone behind their back or swore at another driver who couldn’t hear you? It’s like that – just all in good fun. There are some harsh posters and some really helpful posters and some harsh/helpful posters. It would be boring if everyone was nice. None of us like to see someone lose a home but their point is most of them did not do diligent/responsible financial planning. And we all want to see housing prices come down. It’s that simple.

[NotCranky]

Standing on the sidelines and cheering other peoples downfall is …. well… fill in your blank.

I think this will fill in about half of the blank …the other half ? I guess there are as many reasons as there are piggs.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5-giY_O7i98

[Ricechex]

I have to agree with the above the posters. I think many of the sub prime borrowers were greedy and stupid, being played by media hype, predatory lending and all the other greedy players in this game.

Everyone cannot have everything they want. The subprime borrowers did not exercise much common sense….sheesh, did they think a windfall or inheritance was coming in 3 years when their ARM reset? They had to have known that their salary was not going to increase 10 fold.

A friend bought in 2001. Because he and his partner have excessive spending habits, they have re-financed 2-3X to pull money out to pay CC bills. He is sweating it because their latest ARM resets in March 08. He is now pulling out of his retirement, to pay off the CC. I do not feel sorry for him, but I do not cheer his potential downfall. I have watched him buy a $5000 bed. Next, a $3000 vacation. Next, a $5000 TV. Next, an Acura with a $650 monthly payment. Next, a new laptop, $1000. Another new computer, $2000. Top of the line cable and all stations. The house has 2 landlines and they each have cell phones. All this on a $65K salary. Yet, he calls me tacky and cheap because I drive a 95 car that is paid off, looks nice (bondo’ed and repainted just in Jan) and live in a house I can afford.

Now, I have had my problems….my CC was getting up there at one time. So, I worked 2 jobs to pay it off, and I did. Now, I live within my means. I would like to own a old Craftsman house near Morley Field, but I cannot afford it. It’s simple: Do NOT buy what you cannot afford.

Its the mentality of the buyer that is the problem. Looking to be the rich and famous, when you aren’t the rich and famous. It is called taking responsibility. The problem with this society is everyone blames everyone else for their problems.

[San Diego Native]

beachlover

Another option is simply to stay where you are, be glad you (most likely) only paid in the five or low six figures for your home–as we did–in a prime location–that it’s paid off–with very low property taxes–and continue to enjoy the San Diego lifestyle–what’s not to love??!!

Only time will tell what’s going to happen to the future of San Diego real estate–jobs–interest rates. Those who have their homes paid off, with cash saved, will fare best, should things get really nasty. You have it all–ENJOY!

[Allan from Fallbrook]

beachlover: Apropos of nothing, but JWM and temeculaguy happen to be two of my favorite posters, and largely because of their different approaches. While JWM is definitely more hard edged than TG, I have never felt that he went out of his way to trash someone. To the contrary, he makes a good point and drives it home hard. As a former finance guy, I completely understand the mentality. It is called “not suffering fools gladly”.

I would also point out that most posters on Pigginton’s try to observe the rules of fair play, and treat others with respect. I had a debate on Islam with Rustico that could have become downright nasty and never did. Why? Because both of us understood the nature of debate and that argument, done right, can be enlightening, invigorating and informative.

As a football coach, I will tell you what I tell my players: This ain’t badminton, ladies. Give as good as you get, and then some. If you know the rules, then play the game and don’t whine about the outcome if you lose to a better opponent. Get up, dust yourself off and go right back after it.

[VoZangre]

Mamma Mia!!!

Most excellent/int’restin’ thread. And funny. And too long.

Schadenfreude was called before I got my chance…

but actually, it’s inaccurate- in my not so humble opinion.

It’s called come uppance… the run-up was speculative, fueled by fraud and greed. If there is any ire or target it is this… the greedy and the fraudulent.

The stupid/ignorant, who were pie-eyed at the thought of ” I can own my own home!” ( said in Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz’s voice), have paid a high price for getting in over their collective heads. ( And I imagine with a lack of ability to “suffer fools” there is an amount of head shaking going on off-line wondering how folks could be SO out of touch/stupid/ignorant… while the greedy folks involved happily collected massively inflated fees)

This room is full of sharp cookies and you can learn plenty.

ps- TG, do you have groupies yet?

ps2- “Everyone cannot have everything they want”

you haven’t read or seen ” The Secret”?
sad that people fall for that shite

[bob007]

In general I have no sympathy for the people who lose their homes in California.

Blame it on the following
1. NIMBY – they block mass transit and freeway projects that would help people from Central Valley commute to Bay Area, Inland Empire to LA/Orange County

2. Open Space crowd – they keep lot of prime land vacant keeping housing prices higher

3. Opponents of private vouchers – Since you need to live in a good school district to educate your kids you have an arms race to buy homes in good school districts.

[bob007]

In general I have no sympathy for the people who lose their homes in California.

Blame it on the following
1. NIMBY – they block mass transit and freeway projects that would help people from Central Valley commute to Bay Area, Inland Empire to LA/Orange County

2. Open Space crowd – they keep lot of prime land vacant keeping housing prices higher

3. Opponents of private vouchers – Since you need to live in a good school district to educate your kids you have an arms race to buy homes in good school districts.

[greensd]

I’m confused about who we’re supposed to feel sorry for. It seems to me there are three different kinds of homeowners who are “suffering” in this downturn.

People like beachlover and cashman, as far as I can tell, don’t actually have any problems. They’re sitting on a ton of equity and/or cash and have lots and lots of attractive options open to them. They’re frustrated that the market isn’t generating even more equity and/or cash for them right now, but that’s not exactly a societal crisis.

Then there are the “homeowners” who never actually owned anything that are falling into foreclosure. They’ve got no equity in the houses anyway, so they’re not really losing much. Sure, they’ll have to rent for awhile, maybe even for a long while, but those of us in the Priced Out Forever generation know what that’s like, and, frankly, it’s just not that big a deal. So, again, not much sympathy.

And then there are the mini-Trumps and Casey Serins out there, like the guy who tried to tell me I was abusing my children by not borrowing as much money as I could to buy property (I was denying them a future of financial security just so I could selfishly enjoy a little cash flow now). Those guys are going to suffer the most, but, them’s the breaks.

What am I missing?

[Blissful Ignoramus]

I was going to reply to beachlover, but greensd said it all perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Cry me a friggin river beachlover. If you owned your house for 20 years then you aren’t going to lose any money out of this deal so what are you complaining about?

The vast majority of the homeowners who are getting forclosed on deserve everything they get. They voluntarily took unnecessary risk and due to their greed and/or stupidity cuased our real estate prices to get irrationally overpriced. It’s payback time.

I hope that hundereds of thousands of people are financially ruined and move out of San Diego, traffic is terrible right now.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

deadzone: Dude! Don’t hold back now, tell us how you really feel!

All kidding aside, I have to profess that I too am tired of this incessant whelping from homedebtors about how their realtor/mortgage broker/bank/etc misled them into a toxic loan.

Purchasing a home represents the single largest financial commitment you will make in your life (generally speaking), and the responsibility for reading the fine print and knowing the terms of the loan is yours and yours alone. The majority of these people bought into the hype and now want to duck their responsibility because they weren’t able to flip their property and make an obscene profit quickly.

Any investment banker worth their salt will tell you about risk versus reward, and that there is no such thing as either a free lunch or a sure thing.

I agree about traffic, too, by the way. Especially on that 15 corridor.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

deadzone: Dude! Don’t hold back now, tell us how you really feel!

All kidding aside, I have to profess that I too am tired of this incessant whelping from homedebtors about how their realtor/mortgage broker/bank/etc misled them into a toxic loan.

Purchasing a home represents the single largest financial commitment you will make in your life (generally speaking), and the responsibility for reading the fine print and knowing the terms of the loan is yours and yours alone. The majority of these people bought into the hype and now want to duck their responsibility because they weren’t able to flip their property and make an obscene profit quickly.

Any investment banker worth their salt will tell you about risk versus reward, and that there is no such thing as either a free lunch or a sure thing.

I agree about traffic, too, by the way. Especially on that 15 corridor.

[Anonymous]

Cry me a friggin river beachlover. If you owned your house for 20 years then you aren’t going to lose any money out of this deal so what are you complaining about?

The vast majority of the homeowners who are getting forclosed on deserve everything they get. They voluntarily took unnecessary risk and due to their greed and/or stupidity cuased our real estate prices to get irrationally overpriced. It’s payback time.

I hope that hundereds of thousands of people are financially ruined and move out of San Diego, traffic is terrible right now.

[Blissful Ignoramus]

I was going to reply to beachlover, but greensd said it all perfectly.

[greensd]

I’m confused about who we’re supposed to feel sorry for. It seems to me there are three different kinds of homeowners who are “suffering” in this downturn.

People like beachlover and cashman, as far as I can tell, don’t actually have any problems. They’re sitting on a ton of equity and/or cash and have lots and lots of attractive options open to them. They’re frustrated that the market isn’t generating even more equity and/or cash for them right now, but that’s not exactly a societal crisis.

Then there are the “homeowners” who never actually owned anything that are falling into foreclosure. They’ve got no equity in the houses anyway, so they’re not really losing much. Sure, they’ll have to rent for awhile, maybe even for a long while, but those of us in the Priced Out Forever generation know what that’s like, and, frankly, it’s just not that big a deal. So, again, not much sympathy.

And then there are the mini-Trumps and Casey Serins out there, like the guy who tried to tell me I was abusing my children by not borrowing as much money as I could to buy property (I was denying them a future of financial security just so I could selfishly enjoy a little cash flow now). Those guys are going to suffer the most, but, them’s the breaks.

What am I missing?

[CDMA ENG]

CDMA ENG…

Well I am now a TG groupie (hope that doesn’t scare you TG). I am glad that TG so elloquently stated the feelings of many of the young professionals in this town.

There has never been anything to gain by the name calling and I wish some people would tone down the bashing. I think there are many intelligent people that have oustanding points but when you name call or curse it is a BIG turn-off in the threads.

Lastly, someone jumped on Beach for callings us Pigs… He meant that in a good way!

Regards my Piggies,

C.E.

[CDMA ENG]

CDMA ENG…

Well I am now a TG groupie (hope that doesn’t scare you TG). I am glad that TG so elloquently stated the feelings of many of the young professionals in this town.

There has never been anything to gain by the name calling and I wish some people would tone down the bashing. I think there are many intelligent people that have oustanding points but when you name call or curse it is a BIG turn-off in the threads.

Lastly, someone jumped on Beach for callings us Pigs… He meant that in a good way!

Regards my Piggies,

C.E.

[VoZangre]

Mamma Mia!!!

Most excellent/int’restin’ thread. And funny. And too long.

Schadenfreude was called before I got my chance…

but actually, it’s inaccurate- in my not so humble opinion.

It’s called come uppance… the run-up was speculative, fueled by fraud and greed. If there is any ire or target it is this… the greedy and the fraudulent.

The stupid/ignorant, who were pie-eyed at the thought of ” I can own my own home!” ( said in Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz’s voice), have paid a high price for getting in over their collective heads. ( And I imagine with a lack of ability to “suffer fools” there is an amount of head shaking going on off-line wondering how folks could be SO out of touch/stupid/ignorant… while the greedy folks involved happily collected massively inflated fees)

This room is full of sharp cookies and you can learn plenty.

ps- TG, do you have groupies yet?

ps2- “Everyone cannot have everything they want”

you haven’t read or seen ” The Secret”?
sad that people fall for that shite

[Allan from Fallbrook]

beachlover: Apropos of nothing, but JWM and temeculaguy happen to be two of my favorite posters, and largely because of their different approaches. While JWM is definitely more hard edged than TG, I have never felt that he went out of his way to trash someone. To the contrary, he makes a good point and drives it home hard. As a former finance guy, I completely understand the mentality. It is called “not suffering fools gladly”.

I would also point out that most posters on Pigginton’s try to observe the rules of fair play, and treat others with respect. I had a debate on Islam with Rustico that could have become downright nasty and never did. Why? Because both of us understood the nature of debate and that argument, done right, can be enlightening, invigorating and informative.

As a football coach, I will tell you what I tell my players: This ain’t badminton, ladies. Give as good as you get, and then some. If you know the rules, then play the game and don’t whine about the outcome if you lose to a better opponent. Get up, dust yourself off and go right back after it.

[San Diego Native]

beachlover

Another option is simply to stay where you are, be glad you (most likely) only paid in the five or low six figures for your home–as we did–in a prime location–that it’s paid off–with very low property taxes–and continue to enjoy the San Diego lifestyle–what’s not to love??!!

Only time will tell what’s going to happen to the future of San Diego real estate–jobs–interest rates. Those who have their homes paid off, with cash saved, will fare best, should things get really nasty. You have it all–ENJOY!

[Ricechex]

I have to agree with the above the posters. I think many of the sub prime borrowers were greedy and stupid, being played by media hype, predatory lending and all the other greedy players in this game.

Everyone cannot have everything they want. The subprime borrowers did not exercise much common sense….sheesh, did they think a windfall or inheritance was coming in 3 years when their ARM reset? They had to have known that their salary was not going to increase 10 fold.

A friend bought in 2001. Because he and his partner have excessive spending habits, they have re-financed 2-3X to pull money out to pay CC bills. He is sweating it because their latest ARM resets in March 08. He is now pulling out of his retirement, to pay off the CC. I do not feel sorry for him, but I do not cheer his potential downfall. I have watched him buy a $5000 bed. Next, a $3000 vacation. Next, a $5000 TV. Next, an Acura with a $650 monthly payment. Next, a new laptop, $1000. Another new computer, $2000. Top of the line cable and all stations. The house has 2 landlines and they each have cell phones. All this on a $65K salary. Yet, he calls me tacky and cheap because I drive a 95 car that is paid off, looks nice (bondo’ed and repainted just in Jan) and live in a house I can afford.

Now, I have had my problems….my CC was getting up there at one time. So, I worked 2 jobs to pay it off, and I did. Now, I live within my means. I would like to own a old Craftsman house near Morley Field, but I cannot afford it. It’s simple: Do NOT buy what you cannot afford.

Its the mentality of the buyer that is the problem. Looking to be the rich and famous, when you aren’t the rich and famous. It is called taking responsibility. The problem with this society is everyone blames everyone else for their problems.

[NotCranky]

Standing on the sidelines and cheering other peoples downfall is …. well… fill in your blank.

I think this will fill in about half of the blank …the other half ? I guess there are as many reasons as there are piggs.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5-giY_O7i98

[Arraya]

I find myself being caught up in a bad financial market that I didn’t create.

What are you complaining about, the market is fine for you? You can price to what ever you need to sell and still make a ton. Then sit on your mountain of equity until you find the perfect place. What is the problem?

As for piggs bashing people that were fiscally irresponsible, that is just because we are happy that stupidity is no longer rewarded. All is right in the universe.

Now you just take your huge equity gains, find a nice place to rent and sit back and enjoy that fact that you sold close to the top.

[ibjames]

I wish I was in your shoes, I’m one of those white collar professionals that moved out here, and cannot buy a home. I have friends moving away, all are frustrated.

So pardon me while the guy in the mailroom laughs at me because I didn’t take out an interest only loan and ride the gravy train. He’s been trying to sell his place in normal heights now for over 8 months.

I’m supposed to be sorry? I’m the one that didn’t gamble, didn’t buy lavish items to keep up with the Joneses. I saved and tried to be rational, and still feel that things got so blown out of proportion shit will never get back to levels that make sense.

Greed and chaos led by stupidity, one big toilet that is flushing right now. Except, I’m not one of the turds in the toilet that was hailing interest only as a great investment tool.

Eh.. feel sorry for them. No one cared about the person that could never even get into a house. They weren’t coming up with sob stories in the newspapers for them. So they must not exist.

[Bugs]

I have a somewhat different reason than most for basking a little bit in the I-told-you-so afterglow. I’m in the business of valuation and it’s my job to call it straight down the middle. I spent no small amount of effort observing and reporting that, regardless of what the buyers were doing during the runup, there were significant and unavoidable risks involved. I lost out on a lot of business as a result of being honest and I watched the dishonest players profit via their misconduct. I had idiots telling me that being well informed wasn’t nearly as important as being bold and “going for the dream”.

Most of my long term clients listened to me and had equally well informed opinions of their own that prevented them from participating in the orgy. They didn’t run up the massive short term profits but they also aren’t facing the massive long term losses. They will survive quite well to continue doing business. Those clients who didn’t listen to me and went with their yes-men are now facing some real problems.

I’d bet $100 that virtually all the losers have – at least once – ignorantly bragged about how smart their decisions were to the more prudent people around them. That’s why I don’t look at them as being innocent bystanders and why I don’t feel any guilt whatsoever in the misery they are currently going through. This meltdown isn’t some accident of nature and for the most part these people were never victimized.

[Bugs]

I have a somewhat different reason than most for basking a little bit in the I-told-you-so afterglow. I’m in the business of valuation and it’s my job to call it straight down the middle. I spent no small amount of effort observing and reporting that, regardless of what the buyers were doing during the runup, there were significant and unavoidable risks involved. I lost out on a lot of business as a result of being honest and I watched the dishonest players profit via their misconduct. I had idiots telling me that being well informed wasn’t nearly as important as being bold and “going for the dream”.

Most of my long term clients listened to me and had equally well informed opinions of their own that prevented them from participating in the orgy. They didn’t run up the massive short term profits but they also aren’t facing the massive long term losses. They will survive quite well to continue doing business. Those clients who didn’t listen to me and went with their yes-men are now facing some real problems.

I’d bet $100 that virtually all the losers have – at least once – ignorantly bragged about how smart their decisions were to the more prudent people around them. That’s why I don’t look at them as being innocent bystanders and why I don’t feel any guilt whatsoever in the misery they are currently going through. This meltdown isn’t some accident of nature and for the most part these people were never victimized.

[ibjames]

I wish I was in your shoes, I’m one of those white collar professionals that moved out here, and cannot buy a home. I have friends moving away, all are frustrated.

So pardon me while the guy in the mailroom laughs at me because I didn’t take out an interest only loan and ride the gravy train. He’s been trying to sell his place in normal heights now for over 8 months.

I’m supposed to be sorry? I’m the one that didn’t gamble, didn’t buy lavish items to keep up with the Joneses. I saved and tried to be rational, and still feel that things got so blown out of proportion shit will never get back to levels that make sense.

Greed and chaos led by stupidity, one big toilet that is flushing right now. Except, I’m not one of the turds in the toilet that was hailing interest only as a great investment tool.

Eh.. feel sorry for them. No one cared about the person that could never even get into a house. They weren’t coming up with sob stories in the newspapers for them. So they must not exist.

[Arraya]

I find myself being caught up in a bad financial market that I didn’t create.

What are you complaining about, the market is fine for you? You can price to what ever you need to sell and still make a ton. Then sit on your mountain of equity until you find the perfect place. What is the problem?

As for piggs bashing people that were fiscally irresponsible, that is just because we are happy that stupidity is no longer rewarded. All is right in the universe.

Now you just take your huge equity gains, find a nice place to rent and sit back and enjoy that fact that you sold close to the top.

[Author]

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