They almost always include:
(1) Heat
(2) Hot water
(3) Gas
(4) Water
They sometimes include electricity, especially in older buildings built with no electrical submetering.
Co-op dues also include property taxes, which are unfortunately higher than those for single-family up to three-family brownstones. Tax on apartments ends to be about 1% of value as opposed to 1/5 that for brownstones, though the formula is based on rental price and other factors, not sale price.
Lastly … you’re dealing with much older buildings which require more upkeep than your typical 1970s condo development in San Diego. Maybe the most apt comparison would be the El-Cortez Hotel Condos in San Diego, which also has pretty high HOA dues.[/quote]
Ahh, yes, thank you, spdrun. If we compare the monthly expenses (besides monthly principal and interest, if applicable) of a typical NYC co-op with a dtn SD condo (both ~$450K and ~675 sf):
Dtn SD condo typically has:
-Interior insurance premium: $35
-Gas portion of SDG&E: $20
-Electric portion of SDG&E: $30
-Cable internet/TV/landline phone: $140 (w/2 yr contract)
-HOA dues: $365 (avg)
-Taxes/12 mos: $439
(SD water/sewer & trash p/u paid by HOA)
I believe we still have a cable company monopoly in dtn SD (Cox) and for those buildings on streets w/o fibre optic and/or too old (and expensive) to retrofit for cable, we have a choice of ATT U-verse (DSL and Dish) and perhaps a couple of small, obscure providers.
spdrun, do you know if cable internet/phone/landline service typically included in NYC co-op monthly dues? I know of one complex here which has always had cable TV included in their dues (Marina Park). Its dues were about $265 month upon opening in 1982-ish and I have no idea how much they are today. I believe Brittany Tower (circa 1984-ish – north side of Laurel street) also has cable included in its mo dues.
What about at least one underground parking space per unit (as SD dtn condos have)?
And I’m sure a few condo complexes in dtn SD (with $450K units) have HOA dues of up to $600 month and/or stagger the cost of monthly dues upon the size of unit. Since there have been so many units built down there in the last ten years or so, I don’t know how many of them today have TV/cable internet expense built into their HOA dues.
I’m trying to compare apples-to-apples living costs here between urban (mainly dtn) SD and NYC and I’m really not sure they’re that much different for the bottom 95%. Yet the salaries in NY (as in SF) are MUCH higher than SD for the same position. And, of course, there aren’t as many jobs in as many fields available in or near dtn SD as there are in Manhattan, NYC. So we may have to factor in commuting costs (by private vehicle) for a portion of dtn SD residents who are still working (not yet “retired”). In SD, it isn’t very practical to ride the trolley and/or bus(es) more than ten miles for a one-way trip as it would take far too long to arrive at most destinations due to transfer glitches and service cuts.
A lot of people shun SF as a place to live due to perceived cost but if you own your bldg or unit outright (or lease a rent-controlled unit), it isn’t any more expensive than doing same in SD and in many cases is probably cheaper than your expenses would be if you owned a comparable dtn SD unit outright. This is mainly due to size because most of the apts in SF are considered “flats” (take up a whole floor) and are over ~1600 sf. When you factor in the ultra cheap transportation available there which coordinates like clockwork with each other (bus/cable car/streetcar) and the fact that comparable jobs there pay ~45% more than SD, the cost of living there seems much more reasonable. This doesn’t even include other tangible employer benefits (such as 401K funds-matching at a higher salary point) and the fact that employees there can put on their resumes $XX as their last salary (in SF) vs. $X as their last salary (in SD) which makes them seem more “valuable” to the next employer.
