[quote=pri_dk]Nope, never supported torture or anything like it.
I did provide an explanation as to why I think Obama is avoiding it as a political issue. Big difference between that and supporting it.
One reason my career as a US Army officer was much shorter than yours is that I didn’t want to be part of that scene. Even in my very short stateside career I saw some pretty shameful ethical behavior. Probably more than I’ve seen cumulatively in two decades of my civilian career (even when I worked on “Wall Street.”) There’s a helluva lot of ethical rationalization that goes on in the American military – cuz we’re the “good guys” right?
Based on the disregard for ethics I saw in peacetime, I cringe to think what I may have seen during war. So I choose to avoid the situation altogether. It doesn’t make me a hero, but it sure doesn’t mean I’m a criminal either.
I know there’s a helluva lot of bad stuff that our guys did in Iraq/Afghanistan, etc. that never gets reported. Way too many people join the military for the chance to kill someone. And way too many officers are wiling to look the other way to avoid a blemish on their record. And it goes way up the chain.
After all, it’s war and they’re just ragheads – or kids of ragheads – right?
Now I do believe in defending our nation and our Constitution. And if either of those is ever facing a real, tangible threat, I’d be willing to put the uniform back on in a heartbeat. I’d even take orders from you, and I’m still in pretty good shape…
Sorry Allan, I’m not the bad guy. But you and I both know that you worked for 20+ years on a daily basis with real bad guys. Not all them, but you knew a few I’m sure.
And who’s complicit in all this – who actually has the power to do something and chooses instead to profit from it?
The right wing media machine. They actually do defend and support torture.
But you have so little to say about them. Is it because they are just entertainers?
Was Edward R. Murrow just an entertainer as well?[/quote]
Pri: Sorry, but you explicitly stated (“Heck, I’ll admit it now” were your words) that you had no problems with targeted assassinations and extraordinary renditions. What do you think is happening at those various CIA black sites around the world, dinner theater?
I didn’t say you were a bad guy, or the bad guy. I said that for someone to wax lyrical about liberal democracy, but support assassination and torture was hypocritical and wrong. It is.
I’d also recommend you spend a little time in and around the various towns and villages of Afghanistan and watch the treatment of the locals by American servicemen and women. Note that our troops actually incur casualties in order to NOT put citizens at risk. The idea that the US Army and Marines are running around murdering innocent “ragheads” is untrue and ignorant. Are there instances where this happens? Absolutely. There’s a war on and this sort of thing does happen. Is it “institutionalized”? No, it isn’t and, no, I’m not making excuses. Yeah, I did know some bad guys in my time and there were certain programs, especially during Vietnam that went well beyond the pale. Part of my visceral reaction to things like torture, rendition and assassination springs from personal experience and the realization that, once you lose that part of your soul, you don’t get it back.
That’s also why I pay so much attention to things like civil liberties and the Patriot Act and all the various “little” intrusions that are, in fact, big intrusions into our privacy and rights. You mention defending the Constitution and our nation, well, what do you think this is?
In the next breath you mention Edward R. Murrow, who represents journalism at its finest. No, he was not an entertainer. He was a journalist and exceptionally skilled at his craft and his work leading to the censure of Joe McCarthy is peerless. What do you think Murrow would say about Gitmo? Patriots I and II? Warrantless wiretapping?
You can’t compare Murrow to idiots like Olbermann or Limbaugh. The times are different and people aren’t driven by actual news containing actual facts. They’re driven by TMZ and the tabloid culture we live in, or they’re driven by pure vituperation as vomited out by Olbermann and Limbaugh. Inveigling against Leftists doesn’t make me a card carrying member of the GOP. You’re well aware that I haven’t voted GOP since 1996 and I thought Dubya was both a Godawful choice for president and a Godawful president. Sadly, our choices to continue to decline, as does the quality of actual, factual reportage, both print and electronic.
We’re fearful, venal, corrupt, gullible and we have exactly the republic we deserve.
