[quote=Arraya]Truman should have listened to his joint chiefs of staff about creating the state of Israel. It was a bad idea from the start.
Israel Shahak warned that the Talmudic Judaism is totalitarian religion where rabbinical law governs every aspect of Jewish behaviour in Israel. Yes they are liberal socially but still very much dangerous extremists that have a lobby in congress and a bunch of nukes.
And any attempts by Western analysts to explain contemporary Israeli politics in purely secular terms such as imperialism are fundamentally flawed.
You can’t discuss the ME fundamentalism with out discussing the zionists and their views. It’s very central to understanding the radicalization of the islamic political body.
Cause and effect[/quote]
Arraya: Again, no argument here. Of course, I would argue that there a few points regarding contemporary Israel that bear mentioning: Israel, like much of the ME, isn’t populated entirely by Zionists (and that is a word/term freighted with a lot of baggage that isn’t religious, either) and it is closest to the US and the West in terms of the rule of law and democratic ideals.
I spend a lot of time in Israel on business, mainly in Tel Aviv and Haifa and I will tell you that most Israelis very much want peace and find Bibi as worrisome as the rest of the world does. There is also, however, a very radical element within Israel that I would define as far more Orthodox (from a Judaical standpoint) than Zionist.
I would also opine that, while there are legitimate grievances on both sides, this conversation seems to grant clemency to the Arab (mainly Palestinian) side, without fully exploring the “whys” of what has happened and is happening.
Russ’s take would seem to be that the US and the West are simply following a tried and true pattern of behavior of war and exploitation as regards natives. Perhaps we could coin a protologism for him that would encompass “Empire” and “Corporatism” and “Exploitation” and be used as a quick catchphrase for all of the wrongs that have triggered the apparently justified attacks on the World Trade Center.
Having seen firsthand the effects of a Katyusha rocket on an Israeli grade school, I can understand where he is coming from, but I don’t think this was the grade school he was talking about. That, of course, is the problem with moral equivalency, it robs of you of the very intelligence Russ is supposedly looking for on this board.
What Russ also fails to understand is that History, like relationships, is “complicated” and when you throw out easy answers, you generally fail to capture the truth of the situation. This morass pre-dates all of us and all of our governments and most religions. But the problems won’t be solved by fawning ignorance or willful blindness.
