[quote=harvey][quote]If we were to stop subsidizing the land owners (not referring to a single primary residence, as that is why Prop 13 passed by such a large margin, and I do not believe in taxing people out of their homes), the “pension crisis” in California would mostly disappear.
YOU are the beneficiary of thousands of dollars of theses subsidies every year because you inherited your parents’ rental units. Why do you think a cop, firefighter, or teacher should give up the pensions that they have earned so that we can maintain these exceedingly profitable — AND TOTALLY UNEARNED — subsidies to YOU?[/quote]
You do know that people receiving pensions are not working either?
Oh…but they did work in the past, right!
How do you think people buy investments like land? Many of them earn the money by working for it and then invest it, perhaps to finance their own retirements. Many of the Piggs here have done just that. They worked, they earned, they saved, they bought investment properties. For many, their rental properties are their pensions – they don’t get a government agency to take care of them.
Pensions are investments, just like real estate.
The cash flow from a pension is entirely passive. There are taxpayer-funded agencies, e.g. CalPERS, that do all the work. Pensioners just collect the checks.
Your use of the word “subsidized” horrendously twisted.
Real estate is taxed – money flows from the landowner to the state. There are no subsidies, regardless of how often you misuse the term.
Pensions are subsidized. Money flows from the state to the investor. The often unsustainable, guaranteed return of pensions are subsidized with taxpayer money when the investment falls short. There is no dispute that this is happening on a large scale. The recent LA Times article is one of many sources that thoroughly documents how pensions are being subsidized due to mismanagement and unrealistic objectives. The taxpayers – people working to fund their own retirements – are footing the bill.
No real estate investor receives a taxpayer-backed guaranteed return.
Your “solution” is to just tax more.
Your entire argument comes down to this: “MY investment should get a GUARANTEED return. If things don’t work out, we need to tax YOUR investment – the one that you made with YOUR EARNED MONEY – and GIVE IT TO ME. Because I worked for my money and you did not. I GET MINE EVEN IF WE HAVE TO TAKE IT FROM YOUR EARNINGS.”
Your claims of entitlement are staggering.[/quote]
It’s like you keep wanting to advertise your ignorance, Pri. Why do you keep embarrassing yourself?
Pensions are a form of deferred compensation. Employees and employers contribute to the pension fund, and this money earns a return. The pension funds (not taxpayers, as employers only pay toward the pensions of *existing* employees, not retirees) provide a stream of income upon the employee’s retirement. That money was earned, while the subsidies to Prop 13 beneficiaries are not.
There are issues with unfunded liabilities (still paid as a portion of existing employees’ pay), but these liabilities are created and exacerbated by the Federal Reserve’s boom-bust monetary policies — including ZIRP, which masks the true cost of money. I have long advocated for a return to the more conservative investing habits from decades ago — public pension funds should only be invested in Treasuries, with a small percentage being allocated to very highly-rated corporate and municipal bonds, and these Treasury/bond prices should be market-driven, not Fed-driven for political purposes. Pension formulas should return to pre-2000 levels, as well. These are things that I have always advocated for, and if these practices were in place, a “pension crisis” would be far less likely, and would be much more manageable if they did exist at all.
So, not only do you not understand how public pensions work, or how they are defined, you still haven’t grasped the definition of a tax subsidy, even though I’ve shown you the literal definition before.
It’s clear that you’re simply trolling, but I’m responding to you for anyone who might accidentally stumble on your rants, so that they don’t become ill-informed as a result of your posts.
BTW, everyone who has worked for their money has a defined-benefit pension that will be backed by the government (right-wing hysteria, notwithstanding). It’s called Social Security.
