[quote=njtosd][quote=CA renter][quote=spdrun]Sport, revenge, punishment, whatever. They’re accused of overstepping their authority. If they’re convicted, they need a few decades to think about what they did.[/quote]

We don’t yet know what caused his injuries, or why. We need to see what comes out in the trial.

In no way am I condoning what the cops did if they caused his injuries and subsequent death. We just need to know all of the details before we start accusing them of “killing for sport” (or revenge, etc.). If it turns out that they did more than just try to subdue/arrest him, then I’m all for jail time. But we just need to know more before we can make that judgement.[/quote]

There is a legal theory referred to as “res ipsa loquitur” which roughly means “the thing speaks for itself”. It is used to describe a circumstance where fault is presumed based on circumstances. Freddie Gray was riding a bicycle when the police began chasing him, so one can only surmise that his spine was intact. He was arrested and placed in a van, unrestrained (against policy) and emerged with a severed spinal cord. I can barely think if a more clear res ipsa case. I agree that an exlanation should be provided, but unless his spine sponateously broke in two, i have a hard time even imagining a scenario where the police are not at fault. The degree and distribution of guilt does require some investigation.[/quote]

I’ve never claimed that the cops weren’t at fault, only that the claim that they did it “for sport” is hyperbolic and hysterical. We do not know all the details. From what I have read and heard from interviews with witnesses, when the cops restrained him, his legs were bent back at an odd angle with a cop’s knee on his neck. IMO, that sounds like a plausible cause of the broken spine. If you look at the footage of them dragging him to the van, it certainly appears as though his legs are not functioning correctly, though it’s not uncommon for suspects to be dragged to a police vehicle because they are not compliant. I can see why the cops might not think that anything was wrong with him at that point.

Were the cops trying to injure/kill him or showing a blatant disregard for his life, or were they simply trying to restrain someone who was clearly resisting arrest? That’s the central question here, IMHO.

As for his shouting that he was in pain, couldn’t breathe, etc.; lots of suspects do that when they’re arrested so that they can go to the hospital instead of jail. Cops hear that all the time. Of course, they technically should call the paramedics at that point (and obviously shouldn’t have loaded him into the van unrestrained, if that’s against their rules), but I think that a lot of cops get tired of that “I’m injured/sick” ploy, so some of them might not go along with protocol. That usually works out…until it doesn’t.

Again, we have to see what comes out in the trial(s) in order to determine whether or not they should be convicted, but to assume that they did this for sport is over the top, IMHO. There is clearly not enough evidence to support this (not saying it isn’t true, just that there doesn’t seem to be any evidence to support it at this time).

Let me be clear: I am not defending them at this point because Freddie Gray is dead, and there is no question that rules were violated on the cops’ part. I just dislike the witch hunts where every cop is assumed to be guilty of the worst crimes, even when the evidence doesn’t necessarily support the narrative.

If we want to avoid “street justice” for criminals, then we certainly owe cops the same consideration.