[quote=harvey][quote]Yes, I’ve been following the pension issue for many, many years (far, far, far longer than you have)[/quote]
I’ve been following the pension issue since the steel industry began collapsing in the 1970s. But go ahead and tell me more about myself since you seem to know so much.[/quote]
I know by the claims you’ve made about public sector pensions that you know nothing about them. There is no way you’ve been following them for any amount of time, and what you do know about them, you’ve only learned from propaganda pieces put out by the Privatization Movement. We’re not talking about steel mills here, we’re talking about pensions in the public sector.
[quote=harvey][quote=CA renter]FYI, a person who makes $120K/year ]about the average for a public safety worker with many years of experience,[/quote]
You specifically defended the $180K compensation of a retired Vallejo police officer.
The $180K figure is retirement income, which means the total income pre-retirement would need to be far more.
(Have you taken the time to understand the value of an $180K lifetime fixed annuity for a 50 year old? It turns out to be quite a nest egg!)
[quote]For the example in the story, which is probably an outlier, they are in the top 8% in both areas. See map with income percentiles. And they most certainly are “the workers.”[/quote]
The data in your link is for household income, not individual.
And do you think someone retired with that level of income is going to live in a city with inadequate public services and and crumbling infrastructure … a place like Vallejo?
You see, the people of Vallejo – the ones that don’t have the option to move to the golf course community in a low cost of living area – did “take a hit” … a big one!
The retirees can live wherever they want. And $180K is in the top 2% of the nation.
(If you don’t like the 2% figure please don’t bother to dig up links so that you can split hairs – everybody knows that $180K is a very good income.)
As for EconProf’s question: What you personally do for a living doesn’t alter the merits of your arguments which have consistently been self-contradictory and nonsensical.
But he did call you out, and you showed your true character with your answer. The claim that your support of public sector pensions has nothing to do with your “self interest” is blatantly dishonest.[/quote]
I didn’t “defend” anyone’s compensation. We’re discussing the reasons for Vallejo’s financial problems and how these problems affect their pension obligations. And I’ve never claimed that $180K isn’t a good income, whether one is retired or not.
BTW, $180K is still not in the top 2% for men, even for individual income, but it is in the top 4%, and that’s for the U.S. 😉 And where a person lives dramatically changes the percentile ranking; this guy is still living in the Bay Area (Napa), and has moved to an even more expensive area, so he’s nowhere near the top 2%, or even the top 5% for the area.
The residents of Vallejo are losing what was gained during the Fed’s bubbles. Services and infrastructure were greatly enhanced as a result of the bubbles; now, they are losing some of those things. These financial losses are in addition to the losses (and additional expenditures) sustained as a result of the base closure. These residents were the ones who were begging the city council for a larger and better-paid police force, among other things. I would also point out that while the city is claiming that they can’t afford to pay their employees as promised, they’ve managed to militarize their police force, as have many other “broke” police departments across the country. While much of that money comes from the federal govt, it would have been better if the same money could have been used to actually improve these departments instead of gearing them up for a war against “domestic terrorists” (a.k.a.: people who don’t agree with the current corporatist regime).
Please show me an example of my “self-contradictory and nonsensical” posts. The only ones who’ve made self-contradictory and nonsensical posts about this topic are you, econprof, and paramount. While others might have opinions that differ from mine, at least they appear to be trying to better understand the issues. You just spout pure nonsense.
And econprof, the former public sector worker of 18 years who, if he was full-time faculty, is probably getting one of those awful pensions (and, quite possibly, retiree healthcare) didn’t call out anything. Let’s revist my post and show, once again, how poor your reading comprehension skills are, shall we?
[quote=CA renter]
I’ve never let my own self-interest get in the way of what I thought was right, which is why I advocate for eliminating Prop 13 protection for non-owner-occupied properties, even though we have benefited from it in the past and stand to benefit greatly in the future. It’s why I’ve advocated for changes to the pension systems that would go very much against my own interests. There are many things that I advocate for and against that go against my own self-interest. How about you?
[/quote]
I have ALWAYS been 100% in favor of DB pensions for ALL workers (and single-payer healthcare, among other things), even when I was working in the private sector. I have been arguing *for years* about the insane, and growing, wealth/income gap between capital and labor. I have participated in the (original, when it was opposed to bank bailouts) Tea Party movement and the Occupy Wall Street movement, even though it doesn’t affect me, personally. This has nothing to do with my own self-interest; I have always been an advocate for doing the right thing, period.
