[quote=FlyerInHi]CAr, problem is that you want the benefits of Wall Street but don’t want the downsides.

If pension funds were not invested in Wall Street, then the exhorbitant promises could not have been made, and taxpayer contributions would have been higher.

The overly generous pensions promises were made after Prop 13. But you want to drag in some new taxpayers, make them “stakeholders” and force them pay up when there weren’t part of the decision process to begin with.

I think better to get rid of defined benefits and make public employees go with 401Ks type defined contributions.

You also fail to mention escalating health benefits to retirees paid for by taxpayers.[/quote]

Hogwash, I’ve never said I wanted these funds invested in these risky investments. That’s exactly the problem.

And defined benefits have existed for a long time — well before Prop 13. OTOH, the increases that resulted from the “over-funding” of the pension plans during the stock market bubble of the 90s were foolish and need to be changed, and I’ve never changed my position on that.

I’ve NEVER said that we need “new” taxpayers to make up for the losses. We DO need to eliminate the tax subsidies that should never have existed in the first place. We never could afford them. The financial troubles for local governments have existed long before now; you’re just hearing more about it now because the privatization movement didn’t want to let a good crisis (the Great Recession) go to waste, and saw it as a great opportunity to try to take out their opposition (the unions).

And the “stakeholders” I’m referring to are NOT just taxpayers. EVERYONE who uses govt goods and services (like those who use parks, public schools, libraries, physical infrastructure, etc.) is a stakeholder, and EVERYONE who is paid by a govt entity (including private contractors, public employees, developers, and those who are getting tax subsidies, etc.) is a stakeholder, and EVERYONE who pays state or local taxes or fees of any kind is a stakeholder. All of these people are stakeholders, and ALL of them need to be a part of the solution.

And I’ve mentioned multiple times that retiree healthcare benefits have been getting phased out for almost two decades now.

You can’t “get rid” of these vested defined benefits. Do some research on the costs (legal, financial, and administrative) to see what would happen if they tried it. It would end up costing taxpayers more for many decades to come, and would probably end up failing even after all that.