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zk
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]zk, Eric Wemple the media analyst of the Washington Post makes many of the same observations about Fox News and Tucker Carlson.[/quote]
I should hope to god that the media analyst for the Washington Post has the sense to see and comment on this. The question is, why isn’t everybody with any common sense making the same observations? Why isn’t the whole non-brainwashed world saying, “of course liberals don’t hold most of the positions/ideas/attitudes that conservative propaganda ascribe to them”?
ParticipantThis is what passes for news on Fox. Reporting what one of their opinion commentators has said. Go to fox’s website and see just how many of their “news” articles fall into this category.
In that article is a quote from Tucker that is a typical example of what I’m saying about conservative propagandists assigning ideas/positions/attitudes to progressives:
“If you are wondering why so many progressives are mourning Bolton’s firing tonight, it’s because Bolton himself fundamentally was a man of the left.”
First, if ever there was a man who was NOT of the left, it was John Bolton. And for Tucker to even try to sell that outrageously ridiculous notion shows just how little he thinks of his audience (and not without justification).
More to my point: So many progressives are mourning Bolton’s firing? Are you fucking kidding me?
He made that up. He flat out made that up. Progressives in general are not mourning John Bolton’s firing (and if any of them are, which I doubt, it is certainly not because Bolton was a “man of the left”). This happens thousands of times a day throughout the right-wing propaganda machine. Propagandists lie to their marks about what progressives think. And conservatives fall for it over and over again.
Chumps.
ParticipantBrian, ease up here, if you would, please. I’d like to hear from some more conservatives (or anybody who disagrees about the damage that right-wing propaganda is doing to our country). Thanks.
Participant[quote=temeculaguy]I looked up “echo chamber” in the dictionary and it had a link to this thread.[/quote]
So lazy.
First of all, if you read the whole thread, all 14 pages of it, you’ll see plenty of dissenting opinion.
Second, it’s an open forum. If you have something to say that’s relevant or interesting or better than what you’ve seen so far, let’s hear it.
Third, if I wanted an echo chamber, there are plenty of places for that. This is not one of them. Not by a long shot. There are plenty of intelligent people on this forum who disagree with me and who are more than willing to argue against what I or anyone else says.
And you try to get away with “echo chamber.”
So very lazy.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]Honestly zk, why did it take you this long to notice?
[/quote]
You seem to assume that I just noticed this. (Felix Unger was right about assuming.) I first noticed it about 15 years ago (although it wasn’t nearly as pervasive then).
I’m just not sure how many people are aware of how pervasive and persuasive and problematic and just plain huge this aspect of right-wing propaganda is. Obviously the brainwashed conservatives are totally unaware of it. Which is to be expected. The problem is that most other people, as far as I can tell, don’t seem to be aware of it. They see the vitriol and the fury that conservatives have towards liberals, and they seem to think that it’s directed towards positions that liberals actually hold. Surely a lot of centrists, even, believe that liberals in general want open borders and socialism and confiscation of all guns (and many of the million other things that right-wing propagandists tell them that liberals want). Even a lot of liberals (who don’t listen to Limbaugh and Hannity and their ilk) aren’t aware of the uncountable (and usually ridiculous) positions, attitudes, and ideas right-wing propagandists incorrectly ascribe to them.
This is a problem. Obviously the propagandists aren’t going to stop doing their job. That leaves it to…to whom? Who should be countering this aspect of the propaganda? If more liberals were aware of the positions that conservatives think they hold, maybe they could speak up and … ah never mind, the brainwashed aren’t listening to anybody.
My point is that, unless you listen to right-wing propaganda, you aren’t aware of just how persistently and aggressively and wildly right-wing propaganda misrepresents liberal positions, attitudes, and ideas. And, while I can’t think of a solution to the right-wing propaganda problem, increased awareness of all aspects of the problem can only help. And I think that most people are not aware enough of just how big this aspect of the problem is.
ParticipantHas anyone (or everyone) else noticed that most of conservatives’ opinions of who liberals are and what they want is based on what those conservatives hear from their propagandists?
If you have the stomach for it, listen to Hannity or Limbaugh or Jones or any of those idiots for a couple minutes. They’ll spend half or more of their time telling their listeners all about who liberals are and what liberals think and what liberals want. And it’s all nonsense. Almost none of it is true. All of it is at the very least exaggerated, most of it is twisted reality or half-truth, and an awful lot of it is just plain made up.
Socialism! Open borders! Take away all guns!
Those are just a few of the bigger ones. There are a million smaller accusations, insidious little ideas that propagandists plant in their marks’ heads. These lies, big and small, give conservatives a wildly inaccurate picture. And this picture is so awful that, no matter how bad conservative ideologies are for them, no matter how outrageously ignorant and incompetent (and bad for them) their man is, they’d rather take all that up the ass than vote for or side with any liberal ever.
Participant“It’s time — high time — to take Fox News’s destructive role in America seriously”
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic] I’d say it’s more likely that they perceive themselves to be in a desperate struggle to ensure their kids don’t fall off the economic ladder, [/quote]
Totally agree.
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I think home schooling is usually a bad choice. But that’s only because it usually seems to be very poorly done.
It sounds like you made a courageous decision, made some financial sacrifices, did some creative and effective home schooling, and had success. Success that will really help your kids throughout their lives.
Massive kudos to you for that. Really. Bravo.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
And also, if you had been more pressured as a child maybe you would have been a valedictorian, Rhodes scholar, concert pianist, etc…. at that time, your competitive advantage would have been so much greater.
[/quote]
Maybe. But I highly doubt I’d be happier.
[quote=FlyerInHi]
We live in a competitive society and quantitative success they that can be measured by money what we value most.
[/quote]I think most people would rather have their kids be happy adults (who are at least self-sufficient and productive) than rich ones.
[quote=FlyerInHi]
So I don’t blame parents for pressuring kids to become winners, not losers.[/quote]Do you think someone who is happy, kind and self-sufficient but financially in, say, the lowest quartile is a loser? If so, your always-on-display intolerance is even worse than I thought.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]
You wouldn’t rather have had what your kids have?
I think today’s world is better. Memories are better than the real thing.[/quote]
It’s better in some ways. The weed is better. Easier to smoke with a vape. Cheaper. TV is better (both the content and the apparatus). You can carry most of the world’s information in your pocket.
And you’re right, memories are better than the real thing.
All that said, I wouldn’t trade growing up when I grew up with growing up now. Kids are under so much pressure now. They’re so overscheduled. There’s less freedom and free time. There’s less opportunity to figure things out for yourself. It’s tough for parents today to try to raise a kid the way my generation was raised. First, the neighborhood generally isn’t full of other kids roaming around. They’re all at piano lessons or playdates when they’re young, and, when they’re older, piano lessons or volunteering or joining clubs or otherwise building their college resumes. So a free-range kid is likely to spend a lot of his free-range time by himself. Second, you can get arrested for letting your kid go to the park by himself at ages we had been going to the park by ourselves for years. Third, you risk your kid being left behind in today’s much-more-competitive world.
We spent countless hours playing sandlot baseball, exploring field and forest, relaxing, riding our bikes here and there and the beach. Occasionally being bored enough that we’d sit around thinking of something to do. I wouldn’t trade that for all the information and great tv and cheap weed in the world.
Sure, parents can try to raise their kids like that today. But they generally don’t. No, I’ll take my childhood over today’s kids’ any day.
Participant[quote=treehugger]We are seriously trying to buy one for our daughter (or at least help her buy one), she is in college and wants a new car (grandpa is giving her a few thousand for down payment) and I have e-mailed about 20 dealerships and they are the biggest bunch of morons I have ever dealt with!!! How soon can you get down here and test drive??? As soon as you give me the best deal I will come purchase! Does anybody actually waste their time dealing with these idiots in person? At least at home i can have a drink and relax on my couch while I waste my time. Or talk to them while I am out on a run with my dogs, that was fun!
I search the internet it says base model MSRP is $27,350 with $3,500 toyota incentive starting point should be $23,850 plus any other incentives from dealership, they have marked the cars up and are trying to pretend the $3,500 off of $29,800 is a great deal, do they not use google? Type in 2019 Prius Prime MSRP and every site says starting at $27,350!!! Only one dealership actually provided a breakdown of costs and I am still awaiting final, but we are at about $21,900-$4,500 fed rebate would equal $17,400 and she would definitely qualify for the state rebate of $1500, so now at $15,900, ugh, don’t really want to drive to Moreno Valley tomorrow![/quote]
I don’t know about other dealers, but Dodge dealers clearly list their prices and incentives online for every car they have in stock. When I bought my Challenger Scat Pack last year, I looked at the website of every Dodge dealer in California and looked at each of their Scat Packs. The cheapest two (by a significant margin) were at the same dealer in Marin County. I called the guy and said, “how much is the car going to cost out the door.” And he said the price on the internet plus tax, title, and fees. He told me exactly how much the tax and fees would be (I think the fees were like 80 bucks or something) and gave me an estimate on the title (which is set by the DMV anyway). I told him I’d be on a plane in two hours and asked if I was going to have any surprises when I got there. He promised me I wouldn’t and I didn’t. I got it for about $2,000 cheaper than anywhere else in the state, and about $9,500 off MSRP.
If the manufacturer of the car you’re looking for lists their prices like that, it’s a great way to go.
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]
For a smart quote unquote guy im pretty dumb. I am an impostor, a dope, a ridiculous human.
[/quote]
Dumb. Ridiculous. Compared to what?
I think that if everyone were perfectly honest with themselves, almost everyone would see that they’re pretty ridiculous. — They’re usually pretending one thing or another. They’re almost never true to themselves (in a general, continuing sense). They’re usually scurrying around chasing something that shouldn’t really matter. — But I think most people aren’t perfectly honest with themselves.
I think that people aren’t honest with themselves, and not just about their own attributes. People aren’t honest with themselves when they decide what to believe. People, for the most part, believe what they want to believe rather than what the evidence says to them. That’s why so many people believe in god. That’s why people fall for propaganda. That’s why people don’t think they’re ridiculous.
I think there is a rather small subset of people who are much, much less susceptible to that phenomenon (believing what you want to believe) than most people. And I think that a lot of people in that subset are a bit prone to angst, self-doubt, and lack of religious faith.
I definitely count myself in that group. That doesn’t mean that I’m true to myself or that I’m not ridiculous. It means that I know that I’m not true to myself and that I’m ridiculous.
I don’t think you’re dumb or ridiculous compared to most people, scaredy. I just think you’re less in denial about it. (Scant consolation, I know. But it’s not really meant as consolation).
ParticipantI had a beer can collection that was probably worth $85 back in the ’70s. If I still had it today, it would probably be worth about $50.
Participant[quote=carlsbadworker][quote=zk]Not sure I get it.
An American is free to praise his president. He only risks being called out for praising such a wicked and revolting human being. In other words, he risks hearing the free speech of others.[/quote]
Really? All the “political correctness” mob on the Internet is free speech as well?[/quote]
Hilarious that you would call it a “mob.”
And yes, really. Of course. What would you call the speech of those calling for political correctness if not free speech? You are free to ignore them and you’re free to ignore their calls for political correctness. Nothing they say curbs your ability to say what you want about the revolting creature in the white house.
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