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yojimbo
ParticipantOk, false choice it is.
I see the difference between us. You believe the predominant amount of those who are well off were lucky. I believe they probably worked hard, educated themselves, adapted to market conditions, saw a product or service that they felt would provide value to people and pursued it. Luck certainly helps though.
Once again, let’s try to generalize. I know that is difficult for engineers, but my use of Brin as an example was just that – an example. Pick any founder of a successful startup. Of course, I guess it wouldn’t matter who I picked if you truly believe success is only a product of luck.
Also, you are not in their peer group. I’m sorry. It’s nice that you have a high level of self esteem but you are not part of their group. You may be smarter, or more detail oriented, or better at writing terse, more intellectual-than-thou posts on boards than they are but they managed to break free of the routinized world of nine to five by creating something of value, taking risk, and competing successfully in the marketplace over a long period of time.
“Blessed”? Who said anything about being blessed? I’m not putting them up on a pedestal I just respect the fact that they’ve done something productive. I mean they could have just stuck with the 9-5 routine and driven to work everyday, done what they were told, earned their paycheck, driven home, watched TV and posted on boards about how sad it is that the rich are shafting the poor and the government needs to step in and help.
As for health care. I’ll take care of myself thanks.
ParticipantOk, false choice it is.
I see the difference between us. You believe the predominant amount of those who are well off were lucky. I believe they probably worked hard, educated themselves, adapted to market conditions, saw a product or service that they felt would provide value to people and pursued it. Luck certainly helps though.
Once again, let’s try to generalize. I know that is difficult for engineers, but my use of Brin as an example was just that – an example. Pick any founder of a successful startup. Of course, I guess it wouldn’t matter who I picked if you truly believe success is only a product of luck.
Also, you are not in their peer group. I’m sorry. It’s nice that you have a high level of self esteem but you are not part of their group. You may be smarter, or more detail oriented, or better at writing terse, more intellectual-than-thou posts on boards than they are but they managed to break free of the routinized world of nine to five by creating something of value, taking risk, and competing successfully in the marketplace over a long period of time.
“Blessed”? Who said anything about being blessed? I’m not putting them up on a pedestal I just respect the fact that they’ve done something productive. I mean they could have just stuck with the 9-5 routine and driven to work everyday, done what they were told, earned their paycheck, driven home, watched TV and posted on boards about how sad it is that the rich are shafting the poor and the government needs to step in and help.
As for health care. I’ll take care of myself thanks.
ParticipantOk, false choice it is.
I see the difference between us. You believe the predominant amount of those who are well off were lucky. I believe they probably worked hard, educated themselves, adapted to market conditions, saw a product or service that they felt would provide value to people and pursued it. Luck certainly helps though.
Once again, let’s try to generalize. I know that is difficult for engineers, but my use of Brin as an example was just that – an example. Pick any founder of a successful startup. Of course, I guess it wouldn’t matter who I picked if you truly believe success is only a product of luck.
Also, you are not in their peer group. I’m sorry. It’s nice that you have a high level of self esteem but you are not part of their group. You may be smarter, or more detail oriented, or better at writing terse, more intellectual-than-thou posts on boards than they are but they managed to break free of the routinized world of nine to five by creating something of value, taking risk, and competing successfully in the marketplace over a long period of time.
“Blessed”? Who said anything about being blessed? I’m not putting them up on a pedestal I just respect the fact that they’ve done something productive. I mean they could have just stuck with the 9-5 routine and driven to work everyday, done what they were told, earned their paycheck, driven home, watched TV and posted on boards about how sad it is that the rich are shafting the poor and the government needs to step in and help.
As for health care. I’ll take care of myself thanks.
ParticipantOk, false choice it is.
I see the difference between us. You believe the predominant amount of those who are well off were lucky. I believe they probably worked hard, educated themselves, adapted to market conditions, saw a product or service that they felt would provide value to people and pursued it. Luck certainly helps though.
Once again, let’s try to generalize. I know that is difficult for engineers, but my use of Brin as an example was just that – an example. Pick any founder of a successful startup. Of course, I guess it wouldn’t matter who I picked if you truly believe success is only a product of luck.
Also, you are not in their peer group. I’m sorry. It’s nice that you have a high level of self esteem but you are not part of their group. You may be smarter, or more detail oriented, or better at writing terse, more intellectual-than-thou posts on boards than they are but they managed to break free of the routinized world of nine to five by creating something of value, taking risk, and competing successfully in the marketplace over a long period of time.
“Blessed”? Who said anything about being blessed? I’m not putting them up on a pedestal I just respect the fact that they’ve done something productive. I mean they could have just stuck with the 9-5 routine and driven to work everyday, done what they were told, earned their paycheck, driven home, watched TV and posted on boards about how sad it is that the rich are shafting the poor and the government needs to step in and help.
As for health care. I’ll take care of myself thanks.
ParticipantOk, false choice it is.
I see the difference between us. You believe the predominant amount of those who are well off were lucky. I believe they probably worked hard, educated themselves, adapted to market conditions, saw a product or service that they felt would provide value to people and pursued it. Luck certainly helps though.
Once again, let’s try to generalize. I know that is difficult for engineers, but my use of Brin as an example was just that – an example. Pick any founder of a successful startup. Of course, I guess it wouldn’t matter who I picked if you truly believe success is only a product of luck.
Also, you are not in their peer group. I’m sorry. It’s nice that you have a high level of self esteem but you are not part of their group. You may be smarter, or more detail oriented, or better at writing terse, more intellectual-than-thou posts on boards than they are but they managed to break free of the routinized world of nine to five by creating something of value, taking risk, and competing successfully in the marketplace over a long period of time.
“Blessed”? Who said anything about being blessed? I’m not putting them up on a pedestal I just respect the fact that they’ve done something productive. I mean they could have just stuck with the 9-5 routine and driven to work everyday, done what they were told, earned their paycheck, driven home, watched TV and posted on boards about how sad it is that the rich are shafting the poor and the government needs to step in and help.
As for health care. I’ll take care of myself thanks.
ParticipantThat’s funny Kewp. Isn’t it called a “False Choice”? Falling back on the false choice defense as an intellectual argument is weak. Most any political, economic, or social issue has more than two distinct and exclusive alternatives. I suppose I could have asked the Google employees whether Sergey’s tie was blue or red. Would that have satisfied you?
I asked those particular questions to make a point. They were somewhat rhetorical. Besides, what is your point? I think quite a few employees would not like the fact that Sergey pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes (assuming of course that he actually does – I will also assume that you have no idea if that is factually true or not). Then again there are probably some that would not care one bit. I would be one of those people. Look at what he’s created and the jobs he’s provided. Why should I care if he pays any taxes or not?
The true false choice is looking only at the amount of taxes he pays individually and comparing that with what one of his employees pays. What about Google’s corporate taxes? If he hadn’t created Google then all those employees would probably not be paying as much in income taxes either. How about the sales taxes that result from the sale of products? Sales taxes on the products and services Google employees buy with their income? Shouldn’t he get some credit for all of that as well?
Underdose, I’m certainly not naive enough to believe that there are not CEO’s, politicians, or certain rich citizens that try , and do, take advantage of both the system and the lower earning population. Jamie Dimon is definitely taking advantage of his situation and will make millions because of it. In fact, I’m not really posting to defend the rich etc. I’m posting because certain posters on this board continuously insinuate that if you don’t see things their way you are essentially a close-minded uneducated idiot. The behavior is a common quirk of left leaning “intellectuals”. I normally do not post because I usually have more productive things to do. Sometimes, however, I can not take the incessant condescending arrogance.
The real problem for Kewp, TheBreeze and others in their everlasting quest to have government help others is that I just don’t really care about others. Why should I fund a health care system for a bunch of obese, smoking, drinking blobs that refuse to take care of themselves? Why should I bail out someone who extracted every last dime out of their property to spend on idiotic toys to prop up their own self esteem and are now getting foreclosed? Why should I bail out Lehman, or Fannie, or social security, or medicare. I don’t care about any of them. Let them all crash and burn.
A top and bottom purge would be nice. And, if the money spigot shuts off a purge will occur. But it won’t be pretty.
ParticipantThat’s funny Kewp. Isn’t it called a “False Choice”? Falling back on the false choice defense as an intellectual argument is weak. Most any political, economic, or social issue has more than two distinct and exclusive alternatives. I suppose I could have asked the Google employees whether Sergey’s tie was blue or red. Would that have satisfied you?
I asked those particular questions to make a point. They were somewhat rhetorical. Besides, what is your point? I think quite a few employees would not like the fact that Sergey pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes (assuming of course that he actually does – I will also assume that you have no idea if that is factually true or not). Then again there are probably some that would not care one bit. I would be one of those people. Look at what he’s created and the jobs he’s provided. Why should I care if he pays any taxes or not?
The true false choice is looking only at the amount of taxes he pays individually and comparing that with what one of his employees pays. What about Google’s corporate taxes? If he hadn’t created Google then all those employees would probably not be paying as much in income taxes either. How about the sales taxes that result from the sale of products? Sales taxes on the products and services Google employees buy with their income? Shouldn’t he get some credit for all of that as well?
Underdose, I’m certainly not naive enough to believe that there are not CEO’s, politicians, or certain rich citizens that try , and do, take advantage of both the system and the lower earning population. Jamie Dimon is definitely taking advantage of his situation and will make millions because of it. In fact, I’m not really posting to defend the rich etc. I’m posting because certain posters on this board continuously insinuate that if you don’t see things their way you are essentially a close-minded uneducated idiot. The behavior is a common quirk of left leaning “intellectuals”. I normally do not post because I usually have more productive things to do. Sometimes, however, I can not take the incessant condescending arrogance.
The real problem for Kewp, TheBreeze and others in their everlasting quest to have government help others is that I just don’t really care about others. Why should I fund a health care system for a bunch of obese, smoking, drinking blobs that refuse to take care of themselves? Why should I bail out someone who extracted every last dime out of their property to spend on idiotic toys to prop up their own self esteem and are now getting foreclosed? Why should I bail out Lehman, or Fannie, or social security, or medicare. I don’t care about any of them. Let them all crash and burn.
A top and bottom purge would be nice. And, if the money spigot shuts off a purge will occur. But it won’t be pretty.
ParticipantThat’s funny Kewp. Isn’t it called a “False Choice”? Falling back on the false choice defense as an intellectual argument is weak. Most any political, economic, or social issue has more than two distinct and exclusive alternatives. I suppose I could have asked the Google employees whether Sergey’s tie was blue or red. Would that have satisfied you?
I asked those particular questions to make a point. They were somewhat rhetorical. Besides, what is your point? I think quite a few employees would not like the fact that Sergey pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes (assuming of course that he actually does – I will also assume that you have no idea if that is factually true or not). Then again there are probably some that would not care one bit. I would be one of those people. Look at what he’s created and the jobs he’s provided. Why should I care if he pays any taxes or not?
The true false choice is looking only at the amount of taxes he pays individually and comparing that with what one of his employees pays. What about Google’s corporate taxes? If he hadn’t created Google then all those employees would probably not be paying as much in income taxes either. How about the sales taxes that result from the sale of products? Sales taxes on the products and services Google employees buy with their income? Shouldn’t he get some credit for all of that as well?
Underdose, I’m certainly not naive enough to believe that there are not CEO’s, politicians, or certain rich citizens that try , and do, take advantage of both the system and the lower earning population. Jamie Dimon is definitely taking advantage of his situation and will make millions because of it. In fact, I’m not really posting to defend the rich etc. I’m posting because certain posters on this board continuously insinuate that if you don’t see things their way you are essentially a close-minded uneducated idiot. The behavior is a common quirk of left leaning “intellectuals”. I normally do not post because I usually have more productive things to do. Sometimes, however, I can not take the incessant condescending arrogance.
The real problem for Kewp, TheBreeze and others in their everlasting quest to have government help others is that I just don’t really care about others. Why should I fund a health care system for a bunch of obese, smoking, drinking blobs that refuse to take care of themselves? Why should I bail out someone who extracted every last dime out of their property to spend on idiotic toys to prop up their own self esteem and are now getting foreclosed? Why should I bail out Lehman, or Fannie, or social security, or medicare. I don’t care about any of them. Let them all crash and burn.
A top and bottom purge would be nice. And, if the money spigot shuts off a purge will occur. But it won’t be pretty.
ParticipantThat’s funny Kewp. Isn’t it called a “False Choice”? Falling back on the false choice defense as an intellectual argument is weak. Most any political, economic, or social issue has more than two distinct and exclusive alternatives. I suppose I could have asked the Google employees whether Sergey’s tie was blue or red. Would that have satisfied you?
I asked those particular questions to make a point. They were somewhat rhetorical. Besides, what is your point? I think quite a few employees would not like the fact that Sergey pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes (assuming of course that he actually does – I will also assume that you have no idea if that is factually true or not). Then again there are probably some that would not care one bit. I would be one of those people. Look at what he’s created and the jobs he’s provided. Why should I care if he pays any taxes or not?
The true false choice is looking only at the amount of taxes he pays individually and comparing that with what one of his employees pays. What about Google’s corporate taxes? If he hadn’t created Google then all those employees would probably not be paying as much in income taxes either. How about the sales taxes that result from the sale of products? Sales taxes on the products and services Google employees buy with their income? Shouldn’t he get some credit for all of that as well?
Underdose, I’m certainly not naive enough to believe that there are not CEO’s, politicians, or certain rich citizens that try , and do, take advantage of both the system and the lower earning population. Jamie Dimon is definitely taking advantage of his situation and will make millions because of it. In fact, I’m not really posting to defend the rich etc. I’m posting because certain posters on this board continuously insinuate that if you don’t see things their way you are essentially a close-minded uneducated idiot. The behavior is a common quirk of left leaning “intellectuals”. I normally do not post because I usually have more productive things to do. Sometimes, however, I can not take the incessant condescending arrogance.
The real problem for Kewp, TheBreeze and others in their everlasting quest to have government help others is that I just don’t really care about others. Why should I fund a health care system for a bunch of obese, smoking, drinking blobs that refuse to take care of themselves? Why should I bail out someone who extracted every last dime out of their property to spend on idiotic toys to prop up their own self esteem and are now getting foreclosed? Why should I bail out Lehman, or Fannie, or social security, or medicare. I don’t care about any of them. Let them all crash and burn.
A top and bottom purge would be nice. And, if the money spigot shuts off a purge will occur. But it won’t be pretty.
ParticipantThat’s funny Kewp. Isn’t it called a “False Choice”? Falling back on the false choice defense as an intellectual argument is weak. Most any political, economic, or social issue has more than two distinct and exclusive alternatives. I suppose I could have asked the Google employees whether Sergey’s tie was blue or red. Would that have satisfied you?
I asked those particular questions to make a point. They were somewhat rhetorical. Besides, what is your point? I think quite a few employees would not like the fact that Sergey pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes (assuming of course that he actually does – I will also assume that you have no idea if that is factually true or not). Then again there are probably some that would not care one bit. I would be one of those people. Look at what he’s created and the jobs he’s provided. Why should I care if he pays any taxes or not?
The true false choice is looking only at the amount of taxes he pays individually and comparing that with what one of his employees pays. What about Google’s corporate taxes? If he hadn’t created Google then all those employees would probably not be paying as much in income taxes either. How about the sales taxes that result from the sale of products? Sales taxes on the products and services Google employees buy with their income? Shouldn’t he get some credit for all of that as well?
Underdose, I’m certainly not naive enough to believe that there are not CEO’s, politicians, or certain rich citizens that try , and do, take advantage of both the system and the lower earning population. Jamie Dimon is definitely taking advantage of his situation and will make millions because of it. In fact, I’m not really posting to defend the rich etc. I’m posting because certain posters on this board continuously insinuate that if you don’t see things their way you are essentially a close-minded uneducated idiot. The behavior is a common quirk of left leaning “intellectuals”. I normally do not post because I usually have more productive things to do. Sometimes, however, I can not take the incessant condescending arrogance.
The real problem for Kewp, TheBreeze and others in their everlasting quest to have government help others is that I just don’t really care about others. Why should I fund a health care system for a bunch of obese, smoking, drinking blobs that refuse to take care of themselves? Why should I bail out someone who extracted every last dime out of their property to spend on idiotic toys to prop up their own self esteem and are now getting foreclosed? Why should I bail out Lehman, or Fannie, or social security, or medicare. I don’t care about any of them. Let them all crash and burn.
A top and bottom purge would be nice. And, if the money spigot shuts off a purge will occur. But it won’t be pretty.
ParticipantI suppose I’m confused. Or perhaps the argument is so simplistic it’s beyond comprehension. Actually, the old class warfare arguments are about as appealing as the stuff that drops out of my dogs butt when he squats on the lawn.
So, the guys that started Microsoft, eBay, Google Cisco, Qualcomm etc. have not helped society through the creation of jobs? Are they not all filthy rich? Does not the amount they pay to employees in their companies FAR outweigh what they pay in taxes? How about the overall amount of utility that society derives from using their services or products?
A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?
Same question for eBay, Amazon, Cisco, Microsoft etc.
To say the rich do nothing for the working class is patently absurd and borders upon kindergarten reasoning heavily tainted with jealousy and envy. You’re all entitled to your opinions but from my perspective it is nothing but slop.
I don’t want government determining what my minimum wage will be. Nor do I want them determining my level of health care. Nor am I rich. To me, anyone that craves that amount of outside control over their lives has some sort of disorder and probably needs psychological counseling.
ParticipantI suppose I’m confused. Or perhaps the argument is so simplistic it’s beyond comprehension. Actually, the old class warfare arguments are about as appealing as the stuff that drops out of my dogs butt when he squats on the lawn.
So, the guys that started Microsoft, eBay, Google Cisco, Qualcomm etc. have not helped society through the creation of jobs? Are they not all filthy rich? Does not the amount they pay to employees in their companies FAR outweigh what they pay in taxes? How about the overall amount of utility that society derives from using their services or products?
A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?
Same question for eBay, Amazon, Cisco, Microsoft etc.
To say the rich do nothing for the working class is patently absurd and borders upon kindergarten reasoning heavily tainted with jealousy and envy. You’re all entitled to your opinions but from my perspective it is nothing but slop.
I don’t want government determining what my minimum wage will be. Nor do I want them determining my level of health care. Nor am I rich. To me, anyone that craves that amount of outside control over their lives has some sort of disorder and probably needs psychological counseling.
ParticipantI suppose I’m confused. Or perhaps the argument is so simplistic it’s beyond comprehension. Actually, the old class warfare arguments are about as appealing as the stuff that drops out of my dogs butt when he squats on the lawn.
So, the guys that started Microsoft, eBay, Google Cisco, Qualcomm etc. have not helped society through the creation of jobs? Are they not all filthy rich? Does not the amount they pay to employees in their companies FAR outweigh what they pay in taxes? How about the overall amount of utility that society derives from using their services or products?
A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?
Same question for eBay, Amazon, Cisco, Microsoft etc.
To say the rich do nothing for the working class is patently absurd and borders upon kindergarten reasoning heavily tainted with jealousy and envy. You’re all entitled to your opinions but from my perspective it is nothing but slop.
I don’t want government determining what my minimum wage will be. Nor do I want them determining my level of health care. Nor am I rich. To me, anyone that craves that amount of outside control over their lives has some sort of disorder and probably needs psychological counseling.
ParticipantI suppose I’m confused. Or perhaps the argument is so simplistic it’s beyond comprehension. Actually, the old class warfare arguments are about as appealing as the stuff that drops out of my dogs butt when he squats on the lawn.
So, the guys that started Microsoft, eBay, Google Cisco, Qualcomm etc. have not helped society through the creation of jobs? Are they not all filthy rich? Does not the amount they pay to employees in their companies FAR outweigh what they pay in taxes? How about the overall amount of utility that society derives from using their services or products?
A hypothetical question: If you asked the employees at Google if they would prefer that Larry Page and Sergey Brin pay 0 taxes for the rest of their life OR we shut down Google permanently what would be their answer?
Same question for eBay, Amazon, Cisco, Microsoft etc.
To say the rich do nothing for the working class is patently absurd and borders upon kindergarten reasoning heavily tainted with jealousy and envy. You’re all entitled to your opinions but from my perspective it is nothing but slop.
I don’t want government determining what my minimum wage will be. Nor do I want them determining my level of health care. Nor am I rich. To me, anyone that craves that amount of outside control over their lives has some sort of disorder and probably needs psychological counseling.
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