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urbanrealtor
Participant[quote=Casca]Perhaps I misjudged your motives when I responded previously. However, whenever someone blithers about “this awful war” or some such, the nitwit alarm goes off.
It’s like this Toots, patriotism is a love of country like the love you have for your family. Some people pay the price for your freedom, a rather small minority these days. They know what patriotism is because they live it everyday. McCain knows. Obama is a free rider, like almost every democrat or liberal you’ll ever meet. If you’d like to become a patriot, start by educating yourself on the history of how this nation was created. It wasn’t to help the deprived. In closing, I’ll leave you with this. Liberals are communists without the guns.[/quote]
I am a liberal. I am not a communist. I am not a communist with or without a gun. I have no interest in a command economy or single party politics or politburo. I have worked in law enforcement and I was born (literally) on an army base on the border with communist eastern europe. I am a free rider in that I have never worked in the military myself.
Is it your assertion that all non-military (or non-combatants for that matter) are free riders?
Would it be your assertion that a draft would be better than having the existing minority fight the existing war?
Also, would it be your assertion that people who do not support the actions of the government are dumb (I think the term you used was “nitwit”)?
Or is it just that war that is the litmus test for un-patriots?
By that logic would the Russians who dodged the draft to avoid being killed by the mujahideen in Afghanistan be un-patriots?
Also, were the continental colonials in the 1770’s not deprived of something that spurred them towards war? I seem to recall something about taxation without representation. Perhaps I misread.How do you have any idea whether someone loves their country?
Considering that a majority of Americans are not in support of the war, does that mean you don’t care for them?
If so, and if you find your countrymen (as defined by citizenship) so loathesome then why do you love your country?Participant[quote=jficquette]McCain don’t need no stinkin’ teleprompter (g)[/quote]
You do realize McCain is a robot right?
Seriously, he is the most current model (tasefully aged) of the cyberdyne 1600 series.
You know the other ones like Gephardt and Forbes.
Forbes was the oldest and kept crashing.
Animatronic fucker.Participant[quote=jficquette]McCain don’t need no stinkin’ teleprompter (g)[/quote]
You do realize McCain is a robot right?
Seriously, he is the most current model (tasefully aged) of the cyberdyne 1600 series.
You know the other ones like Gephardt and Forbes.
Forbes was the oldest and kept crashing.
Animatronic fucker.Participant[quote=jficquette]McCain don’t need no stinkin’ teleprompter (g)[/quote]
You do realize McCain is a robot right?
Seriously, he is the most current model (tasefully aged) of the cyberdyne 1600 series.
You know the other ones like Gephardt and Forbes.
Forbes was the oldest and kept crashing.
Animatronic fucker.Participant[quote=jficquette]McCain don’t need no stinkin’ teleprompter (g)[/quote]
You do realize McCain is a robot right?
Seriously, he is the most current model (tasefully aged) of the cyberdyne 1600 series.
You know the other ones like Gephardt and Forbes.
Forbes was the oldest and kept crashing.
Animatronic fucker.Participant[quote=jficquette]McCain don’t need no stinkin’ teleprompter (g)[/quote]
You do realize McCain is a robot right?
Seriously, he is the most current model (tasefully aged) of the cyberdyne 1600 series.
You know the other ones like Gephardt and Forbes.
Forbes was the oldest and kept crashing.
Animatronic fucker.Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=toots]Wow, thanks everyone. I read things I had not considered about Obama. Don’t know if they’re all true, but it’s worth thinking about
So, I have read here lots of reasons why I shouldn’t vote for Obama, but not too much about why I should vote for McCain. Because he’s white and patriotic?
Enlighten me more. I’m listening.
ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]
How does your love for the country manifest itself??
Liberals talk that love but having a Joke like Obama as the torch bearer says otherwise.
John
[/quote]
I think it would be fair to say that patriotism means different things to different people. I also think it is fair to ask people claiming patriotism to back that up.I think it is fair to ask Toots what she means.
On that note: John, how (other than obvious hate of enemies and naysayers) does your love of country manifest? You have shown love for and affinity toward some of the current parts of government. As I stated earlier, I am liberal and not radical. I distrust Bush as I distrust Castro. After spending time in Cuba, I feel more certain about that then ever that this is an experience that lots of people share globally. They love their country, they believe that their leaders love the country, and they distrust their leaders.
Again, not looking to fight but curious to explore what that love of country means as an experience.
(Honestly, how often do I actually request that conservatives hold forth?)Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=toots]Wow, thanks everyone. I read things I had not considered about Obama. Don’t know if they’re all true, but it’s worth thinking about
So, I have read here lots of reasons why I shouldn’t vote for Obama, but not too much about why I should vote for McCain. Because he’s white and patriotic?
Enlighten me more. I’m listening.
ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]
How does your love for the country manifest itself??
Liberals talk that love but having a Joke like Obama as the torch bearer says otherwise.
John
[/quote]
I think it would be fair to say that patriotism means different things to different people. I also think it is fair to ask people claiming patriotism to back that up.I think it is fair to ask Toots what she means.
On that note: John, how (other than obvious hate of enemies and naysayers) does your love of country manifest? You have shown love for and affinity toward some of the current parts of government. As I stated earlier, I am liberal and not radical. I distrust Bush as I distrust Castro. After spending time in Cuba, I feel more certain about that then ever that this is an experience that lots of people share globally. They love their country, they believe that their leaders love the country, and they distrust their leaders.
Again, not looking to fight but curious to explore what that love of country means as an experience.
(Honestly, how often do I actually request that conservatives hold forth?)Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=toots]Wow, thanks everyone. I read things I had not considered about Obama. Don’t know if they’re all true, but it’s worth thinking about
So, I have read here lots of reasons why I shouldn’t vote for Obama, but not too much about why I should vote for McCain. Because he’s white and patriotic?
Enlighten me more. I’m listening.
ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]
How does your love for the country manifest itself??
Liberals talk that love but having a Joke like Obama as the torch bearer says otherwise.
John
[/quote]
I think it would be fair to say that patriotism means different things to different people. I also think it is fair to ask people claiming patriotism to back that up.I think it is fair to ask Toots what she means.
On that note: John, how (other than obvious hate of enemies and naysayers) does your love of country manifest? You have shown love for and affinity toward some of the current parts of government. As I stated earlier, I am liberal and not radical. I distrust Bush as I distrust Castro. After spending time in Cuba, I feel more certain about that then ever that this is an experience that lots of people share globally. They love their country, they believe that their leaders love the country, and they distrust their leaders.
Again, not looking to fight but curious to explore what that love of country means as an experience.
(Honestly, how often do I actually request that conservatives hold forth?)Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=toots]Wow, thanks everyone. I read things I had not considered about Obama. Don’t know if they’re all true, but it’s worth thinking about
So, I have read here lots of reasons why I shouldn’t vote for Obama, but not too much about why I should vote for McCain. Because he’s white and patriotic?
Enlighten me more. I’m listening.
ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]
How does your love for the country manifest itself??
Liberals talk that love but having a Joke like Obama as the torch bearer says otherwise.
John
[/quote]
I think it would be fair to say that patriotism means different things to different people. I also think it is fair to ask people claiming patriotism to back that up.I think it is fair to ask Toots what she means.
On that note: John, how (other than obvious hate of enemies and naysayers) does your love of country manifest? You have shown love for and affinity toward some of the current parts of government. As I stated earlier, I am liberal and not radical. I distrust Bush as I distrust Castro. After spending time in Cuba, I feel more certain about that then ever that this is an experience that lots of people share globally. They love their country, they believe that their leaders love the country, and they distrust their leaders.
Again, not looking to fight but curious to explore what that love of country means as an experience.
(Honestly, how often do I actually request that conservatives hold forth?)Participant[quote=jficquette][quote=toots]Wow, thanks everyone. I read things I had not considered about Obama. Don’t know if they’re all true, but it’s worth thinking about
So, I have read here lots of reasons why I shouldn’t vote for Obama, but not too much about why I should vote for McCain. Because he’s white and patriotic?
Enlighten me more. I’m listening.
ps someone please tell me why right-wingers keep saying liberals are not patriotic? Because we hate this war? My husband and I and all our friends are liberal, and we all love our country.[/quote]
How does your love for the country manifest itself??
Liberals talk that love but having a Joke like Obama as the torch bearer says otherwise.
John
[/quote]
I think it would be fair to say that patriotism means different things to different people. I also think it is fair to ask people claiming patriotism to back that up.I think it is fair to ask Toots what she means.
On that note: John, how (other than obvious hate of enemies and naysayers) does your love of country manifest? You have shown love for and affinity toward some of the current parts of government. As I stated earlier, I am liberal and not radical. I distrust Bush as I distrust Castro. After spending time in Cuba, I feel more certain about that then ever that this is an experience that lots of people share globally. They love their country, they believe that their leaders love the country, and they distrust their leaders.
Again, not looking to fight but curious to explore what that love of country means as an experience.
(Honestly, how often do I actually request that conservatives hold forth?)Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]toots: I think there needs to be a distinction between liberals and left-wingers. I think the word “liberal” is a good word, and not a pejorative, but I loathe left-wingers.
As I’m sure gandalf would be the first to tell you, I am extremely conservative, in the old school Goldwater Republican camp. I would never accuse a liberal of hating their country, but would accuse a left-winger of doing so.
It is much akin to Susan Sontag opining after 9/11 that we “deserved” it. While I feel that our foreign policy in the Middle East has run between complete ignorance and ineptitude, claiming that Osama bin Laden was justified in his actions is beyond the pale and contemptible.
I don’t hold that we are above criticism. To the contrary, I believe that we need to change our approach in that part of the world and that the past 50 years have shown significant errors in our relationships and our strategies. Support for countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt are going to come back to haunt us, and we need to see that part of the world in a whole new way.
All of that being said, however, I don’t feel that either of the candidates is a good choice for that particular job. I have McCain on one hand openly advocating the bombing of Iran and Obama on the other completely missing the point as to why Iran should not have The Bomb.
[/quote]Again, irritated that you do not do these wonder posts more often.
This leads me to other questions (you are good at doing that).
1:
I consider myself a member of the liberal left. I don’t consider myself a member of the radical left nor do I consider myself particularly reactionary. But clearly, with my opinions on social programs and economics, I am generally to the left of the current government in the US. What about leftism do you find contemptible? Perhaps a better question would be, what do you see as left? It is a polysemous term.2:
Why do you find Iran dangerous? They have a weak president, a strong legislature, and a super-strong judiciary. The only person that seems to noisily chant about the US and Israel is the weak president. Is the president the problem or are prior actions indicative of current intent or what exactly?
I don’t necessarily disagree but the silliness of my debate with Surveyor made me think about Iran and what the real danger there is. It really feels like we are just hating on a grudge (kind of like Cuba).
Sound off.
Anyone with an actual opinion, I would be interested in hearing it. If you are just a hater spouting vitriol, then not so much.Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]toots: I think there needs to be a distinction between liberals and left-wingers. I think the word “liberal” is a good word, and not a pejorative, but I loathe left-wingers.
As I’m sure gandalf would be the first to tell you, I am extremely conservative, in the old school Goldwater Republican camp. I would never accuse a liberal of hating their country, but would accuse a left-winger of doing so.
It is much akin to Susan Sontag opining after 9/11 that we “deserved” it. While I feel that our foreign policy in the Middle East has run between complete ignorance and ineptitude, claiming that Osama bin Laden was justified in his actions is beyond the pale and contemptible.
I don’t hold that we are above criticism. To the contrary, I believe that we need to change our approach in that part of the world and that the past 50 years have shown significant errors in our relationships and our strategies. Support for countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt are going to come back to haunt us, and we need to see that part of the world in a whole new way.
All of that being said, however, I don’t feel that either of the candidates is a good choice for that particular job. I have McCain on one hand openly advocating the bombing of Iran and Obama on the other completely missing the point as to why Iran should not have The Bomb.
[/quote]Again, irritated that you do not do these wonder posts more often.
This leads me to other questions (you are good at doing that).
1:
I consider myself a member of the liberal left. I don’t consider myself a member of the radical left nor do I consider myself particularly reactionary. But clearly, with my opinions on social programs and economics, I am generally to the left of the current government in the US. What about leftism do you find contemptible? Perhaps a better question would be, what do you see as left? It is a polysemous term.2:
Why do you find Iran dangerous? They have a weak president, a strong legislature, and a super-strong judiciary. The only person that seems to noisily chant about the US and Israel is the weak president. Is the president the problem or are prior actions indicative of current intent or what exactly?
I don’t necessarily disagree but the silliness of my debate with Surveyor made me think about Iran and what the real danger there is. It really feels like we are just hating on a grudge (kind of like Cuba).
Sound off.
Anyone with an actual opinion, I would be interested in hearing it. If you are just a hater spouting vitriol, then not so much.Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]toots: I think there needs to be a distinction between liberals and left-wingers. I think the word “liberal” is a good word, and not a pejorative, but I loathe left-wingers.
As I’m sure gandalf would be the first to tell you, I am extremely conservative, in the old school Goldwater Republican camp. I would never accuse a liberal of hating their country, but would accuse a left-winger of doing so.
It is much akin to Susan Sontag opining after 9/11 that we “deserved” it. While I feel that our foreign policy in the Middle East has run between complete ignorance and ineptitude, claiming that Osama bin Laden was justified in his actions is beyond the pale and contemptible.
I don’t hold that we are above criticism. To the contrary, I believe that we need to change our approach in that part of the world and that the past 50 years have shown significant errors in our relationships and our strategies. Support for countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt are going to come back to haunt us, and we need to see that part of the world in a whole new way.
All of that being said, however, I don’t feel that either of the candidates is a good choice for that particular job. I have McCain on one hand openly advocating the bombing of Iran and Obama on the other completely missing the point as to why Iran should not have The Bomb.
[/quote]Again, irritated that you do not do these wonder posts more often.
This leads me to other questions (you are good at doing that).
1:
I consider myself a member of the liberal left. I don’t consider myself a member of the radical left nor do I consider myself particularly reactionary. But clearly, with my opinions on social programs and economics, I am generally to the left of the current government in the US. What about leftism do you find contemptible? Perhaps a better question would be, what do you see as left? It is a polysemous term.2:
Why do you find Iran dangerous? They have a weak president, a strong legislature, and a super-strong judiciary. The only person that seems to noisily chant about the US and Israel is the weak president. Is the president the problem or are prior actions indicative of current intent or what exactly?
I don’t necessarily disagree but the silliness of my debate with Surveyor made me think about Iran and what the real danger there is. It really feels like we are just hating on a grudge (kind of like Cuba).
Sound off.
Anyone with an actual opinion, I would be interested in hearing it. If you are just a hater spouting vitriol, then not so much. -
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