[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[urbanrealtor]

I just re-read the below post and I don’t want to come off as an apologist for cheesy agents. I really am trying to explain some of the ethical considerations that go into doing business as an agent. I will start with this: In a market where buyers’ agents are only paid upon closing, it is necessary to work with multiple buyers at any given time. Many leads just turn out to be tire-kickers with lots of time on their hands.

The primary cognitive referent regarding “good” or “bad” practices in this business is ethical behavior. That means the question an agent will ask (of himself or whomever) is “Is this practice or deed ethical?”

I don’t want to give you a semantic lecture but that basically means a question of how widespread the practice is, how clearly it was described, and whether or not it is considered “fair” by those who encounter it most. Ethics are shared morals.
Personal or non-shared idiosyncratic morals do not get much consideration in the grand scheme.

If you used the standard California Association of Realtors Residential Purchase Agreement and Joint Escrow Instructions (hereinafter referred to as the “CAR RPA” or “RPA” or “offer”) there is a section (paragraph 27B) that states that there may be offers from other buyers and that the agent you are working with may bring those offers.

The fact that this is disclosed to you (whether or not you actually read the form you signed) and that it is a standard of practice is what makes it not unethical.

It would be arguably unethical for your agent to start going over the specifics of somebody else’s offer with you. While it is considered legal, most agents will not do it. That means that he probably acted more ethically by not discussing the other offer with you.

Here is an example. If a good deal comes active in my market, I will show it to several of my buyers. If 2 buyers asked to write offers, I would be required to represent them enthusiastically and ethically. It would be unethical for me to discuss one client’s business with another client. I would ethically disclose to each of them that, in theory, there could be competing offers. Also, please remember that the agent is not the one that decides how much the buyer offers.

It is also arguably unethical for the listing agent to be discussing the property issues with you and without your agent. While certainly different, there are some similarities to the relationship an attorney has with his client. This listing agent is a professional with more expertise than you and he really could have taken advantage of you.

Here is an example. Recently, I had an open house. The property was listed by an agent in another city (Encinitas). I do this a lot to meet prospective buyers and gain name recognition. Another agent in my office with whom I am friends sent her clients by themselves to the open house (she was busy). She knew that I would respect the agency relationship between her and them. Because the clients have seen her and I together and because we have desks next to each other and because we have the same logo on our card, they assumed we are really part of a team (which would generally mean we share income and clients). This was understandable and innocent. They started to talk about purchasing strategies. I stopped them right there. I advised that I am not their agent and that I was, in fact working with buyers on that particular property. The implication was (correctly) that I would use what they said in my presence to the advantage of my clients. That bothered them but I would rather have irritated attendees than act unethically.

[urbanrealtor]

So anything happen while I was out

Any fun posts on this thread?

Here are some discussion ideas I have that mostly revolve around stuff I like.

Suggested topics:
Authors:

serious authors:
Philip K Dick
Harlan Ellison
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Victor Hugo
John Steinbeck (red without a gun)
William Gibson

authors I read for humor:
Ayn Rand
Robert Heinlen
L. Ron Hubbard
J. Danforth Quayle

Video:
stuff that take me somewhere:
The Dark Knight (yes cliche but really fukking good)
Full Metal Jacket
Dr. Strangelove
The Wire
Moulin Rouge (not gay but working in Hillcrest helps)
Throne of Blood
Kids in the Hall

Stuff I watched while in college (usually high):
Star Trek Voyager
Koala TV
Friday
Saturday Night Live
Cowboy Bebop

Plays:
Angels in America
Phantom of the Opera
Rent
Anything with Mike Aguirre

Politics:

For real:
Writings by Maganga
Writings by Bendix
Fareed Zakaria
Donna Frye
(weirdly) Karl Rove

For Entertainment:
Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
James Carville
Al Gore
Sean Hannity
Dick Cheney

To cry myself to sleep:
Hillary Clinton
Donald Rumsfeld
Lou Dobbs

[urbanrealtor]

So anything happen while I was out

Any fun posts on this thread?

Here are some discussion ideas I have that mostly revolve around stuff I like.

Suggested topics:
Authors:

serious authors:
Philip K Dick
Harlan Ellison
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Victor Hugo
John Steinbeck (red without a gun)
William Gibson

authors I read for humor:
Ayn Rand
Robert Heinlen
L. Ron Hubbard
J. Danforth Quayle

Video:
stuff that take me somewhere:
The Dark Knight (yes cliche but really fukking good)
Full Metal Jacket
Dr. Strangelove
The Wire
Moulin Rouge (not gay but working in Hillcrest helps)
Throne of Blood
Kids in the Hall

Stuff I watched while in college (usually high):
Star Trek Voyager
Koala TV
Friday
Saturday Night Live
Cowboy Bebop

Plays:
Angels in America
Phantom of the Opera
Rent
Anything with Mike Aguirre

Politics:

For real:
Writings by Maganga
Writings by Bendix
Fareed Zakaria
Donna Frye
(weirdly) Karl Rove

For Entertainment:
Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
James Carville
Al Gore
Sean Hannity
Dick Cheney

To cry myself to sleep:
Hillary Clinton
Donald Rumsfeld
Lou Dobbs

[urbanrealtor]

So anything happen while I was out

Any fun posts on this thread?

Here are some discussion ideas I have that mostly revolve around stuff I like.

Suggested topics:
Authors:

serious authors:
Philip K Dick
Harlan Ellison
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Victor Hugo
John Steinbeck (red without a gun)
William Gibson

authors I read for humor:
Ayn Rand
Robert Heinlen
L. Ron Hubbard
J. Danforth Quayle

Video:
stuff that take me somewhere:
The Dark Knight (yes cliche but really fukking good)
Full Metal Jacket
Dr. Strangelove
The Wire
Moulin Rouge (not gay but working in Hillcrest helps)
Throne of Blood
Kids in the Hall

Stuff I watched while in college (usually high):
Star Trek Voyager
Koala TV
Friday
Saturday Night Live
Cowboy Bebop

Plays:
Angels in America
Phantom of the Opera
Rent
Anything with Mike Aguirre

Politics:

For real:
Writings by Maganga
Writings by Bendix
Fareed Zakaria
Donna Frye
(weirdly) Karl Rove

For Entertainment:
Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
James Carville
Al Gore
Sean Hannity
Dick Cheney

To cry myself to sleep:
Hillary Clinton
Donald Rumsfeld
Lou Dobbs

[urbanrealtor]

So anything happen while I was out

Any fun posts on this thread?

Here are some discussion ideas I have that mostly revolve around stuff I like.

Suggested topics:
Authors:

serious authors:
Philip K Dick
Harlan Ellison
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Victor Hugo
John Steinbeck (red without a gun)
William Gibson

authors I read for humor:
Ayn Rand
Robert Heinlen
L. Ron Hubbard
J. Danforth Quayle

Video:
stuff that take me somewhere:
The Dark Knight (yes cliche but really fukking good)
Full Metal Jacket
Dr. Strangelove
The Wire
Moulin Rouge (not gay but working in Hillcrest helps)
Throne of Blood
Kids in the Hall

Stuff I watched while in college (usually high):
Star Trek Voyager
Koala TV
Friday
Saturday Night Live
Cowboy Bebop

Plays:
Angels in America
Phantom of the Opera
Rent
Anything with Mike Aguirre

Politics:

For real:
Writings by Maganga
Writings by Bendix
Fareed Zakaria
Donna Frye
(weirdly) Karl Rove

For Entertainment:
Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
James Carville
Al Gore
Sean Hannity
Dick Cheney

To cry myself to sleep:
Hillary Clinton
Donald Rumsfeld
Lou Dobbs

[urbanrealtor]

So anything happen while I was out

Any fun posts on this thread?

Here are some discussion ideas I have that mostly revolve around stuff I like.

Suggested topics:
Authors:

serious authors:
Philip K Dick
Harlan Ellison
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Victor Hugo
John Steinbeck (red without a gun)
William Gibson

authors I read for humor:
Ayn Rand
Robert Heinlen
L. Ron Hubbard
J. Danforth Quayle

Video:
stuff that take me somewhere:
The Dark Knight (yes cliche but really fukking good)
Full Metal Jacket
Dr. Strangelove
The Wire
Moulin Rouge (not gay but working in Hillcrest helps)
Throne of Blood
Kids in the Hall

Stuff I watched while in college (usually high):
Star Trek Voyager
Koala TV
Friday
Saturday Night Live
Cowboy Bebop

Plays:
Angels in America
Phantom of the Opera
Rent
Anything with Mike Aguirre

Politics:

For real:
Writings by Maganga
Writings by Bendix
Fareed Zakaria
Donna Frye
(weirdly) Karl Rove

For Entertainment:
Ralph Nader
Ron Paul
James Carville
Al Gore
Sean Hannity
Dick Cheney

To cry myself to sleep:
Hillary Clinton
Donald Rumsfeld
Lou Dobbs

[urbanrealtor]

Jesus Allan.
I go for a couple days doing actual real estate and accompanying my preggo lady to the obgyn and there is a whole page of throwdowns between the conservative I like to read and the conservative I just find funny (more peculiar than HA HA).

This is like porn for a liberal.
I mean its like if Fox News and Sean Hannity grew a brain.

BTW the reference a page or two back was to Richard Hammes. I don’t know his entire history but he was a Seal or some sort of special ops for a long time. He later became one of the big Poli Sci profs at Mesa College. I still consider him one of the best instructors anywhere. BTW before anyone goes off about Mesa, I have taken lots of classes there and they can go toe to toe with my UCSD classes. That includes classes by Lijphart and Magagne and (barf) McCubbins.

[urbanrealtor]

Jesus Allan.
I go for a couple days doing actual real estate and accompanying my preggo lady to the obgyn and there is a whole page of throwdowns between the conservative I like to read and the conservative I just find funny (more peculiar than HA HA).

This is like porn for a liberal.
I mean its like if Fox News and Sean Hannity grew a brain.

BTW the reference a page or two back was to Richard Hammes. I don’t know his entire history but he was a Seal or some sort of special ops for a long time. He later became one of the big Poli Sci profs at Mesa College. I still consider him one of the best instructors anywhere. BTW before anyone goes off about Mesa, I have taken lots of classes there and they can go toe to toe with my UCSD classes. That includes classes by Lijphart and Magagne and (barf) McCubbins.

[urbanrealtor]

Jesus Allan.
I go for a couple days doing actual real estate and accompanying my preggo lady to the obgyn and there is a whole page of throwdowns between the conservative I like to read and the conservative I just find funny (more peculiar than HA HA).

This is like porn for a liberal.
I mean its like if Fox News and Sean Hannity grew a brain.

BTW the reference a page or two back was to Richard Hammes. I don’t know his entire history but he was a Seal or some sort of special ops for a long time. He later became one of the big Poli Sci profs at Mesa College. I still consider him one of the best instructors anywhere. BTW before anyone goes off about Mesa, I have taken lots of classes there and they can go toe to toe with my UCSD classes. That includes classes by Lijphart and Magagne and (barf) McCubbins.

[urbanrealtor]

Jesus Allan.
I go for a couple days doing actual real estate and accompanying my preggo lady to the obgyn and there is a whole page of throwdowns between the conservative I like to read and the conservative I just find funny (more peculiar than HA HA).

This is like porn for a liberal.
I mean its like if Fox News and Sean Hannity grew a brain.

BTW the reference a page or two back was to Richard Hammes. I don’t know his entire history but he was a Seal or some sort of special ops for a long time. He later became one of the big Poli Sci profs at Mesa College. I still consider him one of the best instructors anywhere. BTW before anyone goes off about Mesa, I have taken lots of classes there and they can go toe to toe with my UCSD classes. That includes classes by Lijphart and Magagne and (barf) McCubbins.

[urbanrealtor]

Jesus Allan.
I go for a couple days doing actual real estate and accompanying my preggo lady to the obgyn and there is a whole page of throwdowns between the conservative I like to read and the conservative I just find funny (more peculiar than HA HA).

This is like porn for a liberal.
I mean its like if Fox News and Sean Hannity grew a brain.

BTW the reference a page or two back was to Richard Hammes. I don’t know his entire history but he was a Seal or some sort of special ops for a long time. He later became one of the big Poli Sci profs at Mesa College. I still consider him one of the best instructors anywhere. BTW before anyone goes off about Mesa, I have taken lots of classes there and they can go toe to toe with my UCSD classes. That includes classes by Lijphart and Magagne and (barf) McCubbins.

[urbanrealtor]

to Casca:
I am pleased that I got some interesting stuff out of you. Most of what you said in the last post is pretty well put. The exception (other than the hemorrhoid shit) is the teacher stuff. That approach was tried with the Ba’ath party in Iraq. It did not work well. Changes have to be incremental and well-planned to be successful or effective. I enjoyed getting at your opinions though its unfortunate that it takes the Socratic method on speed to get you to slow down on the pure hate and actually say something constructive.
With regard to Cuba, yes it is illegal for US citizens. Not for anybody else. There is a reason that no major cases of this type ever get far in the court system. It is of dubious constitutionality and the government tends to lose the paperwork for anyone who challenges it. Do you do everything your government tells you to do? Did you want to compare crimes?

to AFF:
I read that HRW thing and I read my post. I don’t think they really disagree. While I agree that public displays of dissent are dangerous and that bad things happen when you do them, I still think that the talking politics openly thing stands. Its something you talk about in general terms or with people you trust. I talked communism and politics openly and with interest everywhere I went there. It was pretty interesting. Now as far as an apples to apples comparison of the rest of the red world, you have a point. Or at least you might. I was 15 when the USSR fell down so I really don’t have a point of comparison with the old bloc. I really only have my own experience to draw upon. The experiences you describe are really pretty alien to me. Your stories are like something out of Richard Hammes’ lectures.

[urbanrealtor]

to Casca:
I am pleased that I got some interesting stuff out of you. Most of what you said in the last post is pretty well put. The exception (other than the hemorrhoid shit) is the teacher stuff. That approach was tried with the Ba’ath party in Iraq. It did not work well. Changes have to be incremental and well-planned to be successful or effective. I enjoyed getting at your opinions though its unfortunate that it takes the Socratic method on speed to get you to slow down on the pure hate and actually say something constructive.
With regard to Cuba, yes it is illegal for US citizens. Not for anybody else. There is a reason that no major cases of this type ever get far in the court system. It is of dubious constitutionality and the government tends to lose the paperwork for anyone who challenges it. Do you do everything your government tells you to do? Did you want to compare crimes?

to AFF:
I read that HRW thing and I read my post. I don’t think they really disagree. While I agree that public displays of dissent are dangerous and that bad things happen when you do them, I still think that the talking politics openly thing stands. Its something you talk about in general terms or with people you trust. I talked communism and politics openly and with interest everywhere I went there. It was pretty interesting. Now as far as an apples to apples comparison of the rest of the red world, you have a point. Or at least you might. I was 15 when the USSR fell down so I really don’t have a point of comparison with the old bloc. I really only have my own experience to draw upon. The experiences you describe are really pretty alien to me. Your stories are like something out of Richard Hammes’ lectures.

[urbanrealtor]

to Casca:
I am pleased that I got some interesting stuff out of you. Most of what you said in the last post is pretty well put. The exception (other than the hemorrhoid shit) is the teacher stuff. That approach was tried with the Ba’ath party in Iraq. It did not work well. Changes have to be incremental and well-planned to be successful or effective. I enjoyed getting at your opinions though its unfortunate that it takes the Socratic method on speed to get you to slow down on the pure hate and actually say something constructive.
With regard to Cuba, yes it is illegal for US citizens. Not for anybody else. There is a reason that no major cases of this type ever get far in the court system. It is of dubious constitutionality and the government tends to lose the paperwork for anyone who challenges it. Do you do everything your government tells you to do? Did you want to compare crimes?

to AFF:
I read that HRW thing and I read my post. I don’t think they really disagree. While I agree that public displays of dissent are dangerous and that bad things happen when you do them, I still think that the talking politics openly thing stands. Its something you talk about in general terms or with people you trust. I talked communism and politics openly and with interest everywhere I went there. It was pretty interesting. Now as far as an apples to apples comparison of the rest of the red world, you have a point. Or at least you might. I was 15 when the USSR fell down so I really don’t have a point of comparison with the old bloc. I really only have my own experience to draw upon. The experiences you describe are really pretty alien to me. Your stories are like something out of Richard Hammes’ lectures.

[Author]

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