[urbanrealtor]

Georgian Roulette?????

[urbanrealtor]

Georgian Roulette?????

[urbanrealtor]

My post was composed simultaneously with SD’s.

I may have reiterated some points
Apologies.

[urbanrealtor]

My post was composed simultaneously with SD’s.

I may have reiterated some points
Apologies.

[urbanrealtor]

My post was composed simultaneously with SD’s.

I may have reiterated some points
Apologies.

[urbanrealtor]

My post was composed simultaneously with SD’s.

I may have reiterated some points
Apologies.

[urbanrealtor]

My post was composed simultaneously with SD’s.

I may have reiterated some points
Apologies.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]Rustico & SD Realtor,

I had no idea my questions would get so far into the nitty gritty of commissions. But wondering if we can follow up on the case where the person buying represents themselves and is not an agent, and does not work with a broker. Assume in this case that the buyer has found the property through websites, etc and is prepared to do a good bit of the leg work. (ie arrange for inspections, deal with escrow, etc)
[/quote]
First to Yoda, sorry if I seemed a bit contrary. I do that but I did not mean to get rude. Regarding alternative service models, I do see their value. I used to be a branch manager for a very productive HelpUSell office and I do acknowledge the value of keeping the service provided appropriate to demand. As far as the assistant, if they are licensed, then they are permitted to do transactions. Lots of the big-name teams classify their licensees as assistants even though they do much of the work. Now back to XBox…
[quote=XBoxBoy]
How open do you think most agents will be with an offer that rebates the buyer’s commission back to the seller? Can the offer specify that since the commission is agreed upon by the seller and their agent before the buyer ever enters the picture? Would the seller’s agent be likely to discourage the seller from taking such an offer, since a buyer without an agent is likely to be seen as a negative by the seller’s agent, and if you’re rebating the commission to the seller, what’s in it for the agent?
[/quote]
To some extent I think a listing agent could argue that it is not the buyer’s prerogative to interfere in the contract between seller and their agent. It would require that the listing agent approve it (not just the seller as with a usual offer). That being said, I have seen this kind of offer written first hand. While I think that you have a point that some or much of the leg work would be born by the buyer, the issue is that unrepresented non-realtors are widely considered to be more likely to do things that are considered “out of bounds” (lying about something material, being obstinate on an unimportant issue, changing a document after it has been signed, arguing about the fault line on a zone disclosure). As an agent I have seen several examples. This potential referee role is why most listing agents would prefer to treat this situation as a double-end where they represent both sides in the transaction (and get both comission sides). They feel that with only one professional, they are likely going to have to work much harder to keep things on the rails. This is what I have seen agents presented with this situation describe. Bottomline: The incentive structure of most real estate is against this type of arrangement and there is nothing beneficial in it for the listing agent. I may be naive or idealistic but I think most truly ethical agents would present such an offer and try to describe the relative merits dispassionately to their seller. Some who are not ethical would just shred it.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
If the seller’s agent is not receptive to rebating the buyers commission back to the seller, isn’t the buyer then better off going with someone like redfin that will at least rebate some of the commission to the buyer?
[/quote]
At an economic level, yes. If the work can be done just as effectively with more money back, this is a no-brainer. That qualifying “if” is the big variable. Lots of people who do not practice but have either an active license, an inactive license, or perhaps just info gleaned on the web or in a class, think they have the skills to handle a transaction. Some are correct and some are not. Lots of people get screwed or screw other people doing this.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
As a second topic, if a buyer is making an offer without an agent, what’s the best place to get the necessary forms? In particular I’m thinking about the purchase contract, and disclosure forms. When I sold my house in 2004 I had to fill out pages of disclosures, and I’d like to be able to hand similar forms to the seller. I know some disclosures are required by law. I looked on the San Diego Association of Realtors site, but it looks like they won’t sell you forms unless you have a license.
[/quote]
The forms can be gotten from the listing agent.
That would be the most cost effective route. While the whole thrust of this thread is avoiding cost, I would consider it advisable to at the least hire a TC. They could advise you which forms are relevant. Though you could even avoid this. If you are opposite an agent from a big name brand brokerage (eg: a C21, ReMax, Pru Cal, or McMillin) then the agent broker or office manager will likely insist that the right forms get used.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
Thanks for all your comments,

XBoxBoy[/quote]

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]Rustico & SD Realtor,

I had no idea my questions would get so far into the nitty gritty of commissions. But wondering if we can follow up on the case where the person buying represents themselves and is not an agent, and does not work with a broker. Assume in this case that the buyer has found the property through websites, etc and is prepared to do a good bit of the leg work. (ie arrange for inspections, deal with escrow, etc)
[/quote]
First to Yoda, sorry if I seemed a bit contrary. I do that but I did not mean to get rude. Regarding alternative service models, I do see their value. I used to be a branch manager for a very productive HelpUSell office and I do acknowledge the value of keeping the service provided appropriate to demand. As far as the assistant, if they are licensed, then they are permitted to do transactions. Lots of the big-name teams classify their licensees as assistants even though they do much of the work. Now back to XBox…
[quote=XBoxBoy]
How open do you think most agents will be with an offer that rebates the buyer’s commission back to the seller? Can the offer specify that since the commission is agreed upon by the seller and their agent before the buyer ever enters the picture? Would the seller’s agent be likely to discourage the seller from taking such an offer, since a buyer without an agent is likely to be seen as a negative by the seller’s agent, and if you’re rebating the commission to the seller, what’s in it for the agent?
[/quote]
To some extent I think a listing agent could argue that it is not the buyer’s prerogative to interfere in the contract between seller and their agent. It would require that the listing agent approve it (not just the seller as with a usual offer). That being said, I have seen this kind of offer written first hand. While I think that you have a point that some or much of the leg work would be born by the buyer, the issue is that unrepresented non-realtors are widely considered to be more likely to do things that are considered “out of bounds” (lying about something material, being obstinate on an unimportant issue, changing a document after it has been signed, arguing about the fault line on a zone disclosure). As an agent I have seen several examples. This potential referee role is why most listing agents would prefer to treat this situation as a double-end where they represent both sides in the transaction (and get both comission sides). They feel that with only one professional, they are likely going to have to work much harder to keep things on the rails. This is what I have seen agents presented with this situation describe. Bottomline: The incentive structure of most real estate is against this type of arrangement and there is nothing beneficial in it for the listing agent. I may be naive or idealistic but I think most truly ethical agents would present such an offer and try to describe the relative merits dispassionately to their seller. Some who are not ethical would just shred it.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
If the seller’s agent is not receptive to rebating the buyers commission back to the seller, isn’t the buyer then better off going with someone like redfin that will at least rebate some of the commission to the buyer?
[/quote]
At an economic level, yes. If the work can be done just as effectively with more money back, this is a no-brainer. That qualifying “if” is the big variable. Lots of people who do not practice but have either an active license, an inactive license, or perhaps just info gleaned on the web or in a class, think they have the skills to handle a transaction. Some are correct and some are not. Lots of people get screwed or screw other people doing this.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
As a second topic, if a buyer is making an offer without an agent, what’s the best place to get the necessary forms? In particular I’m thinking about the purchase contract, and disclosure forms. When I sold my house in 2004 I had to fill out pages of disclosures, and I’d like to be able to hand similar forms to the seller. I know some disclosures are required by law. I looked on the San Diego Association of Realtors site, but it looks like they won’t sell you forms unless you have a license.
[/quote]
The forms can be gotten from the listing agent.
That would be the most cost effective route. While the whole thrust of this thread is avoiding cost, I would consider it advisable to at the least hire a TC. They could advise you which forms are relevant. Though you could even avoid this. If you are opposite an agent from a big name brand brokerage (eg: a C21, ReMax, Pru Cal, or McMillin) then the agent broker or office manager will likely insist that the right forms get used.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
Thanks for all your comments,

XBoxBoy[/quote]

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]Rustico & SD Realtor,

I had no idea my questions would get so far into the nitty gritty of commissions. But wondering if we can follow up on the case where the person buying represents themselves and is not an agent, and does not work with a broker. Assume in this case that the buyer has found the property through websites, etc and is prepared to do a good bit of the leg work. (ie arrange for inspections, deal with escrow, etc)
[/quote]
First to Yoda, sorry if I seemed a bit contrary. I do that but I did not mean to get rude. Regarding alternative service models, I do see their value. I used to be a branch manager for a very productive HelpUSell office and I do acknowledge the value of keeping the service provided appropriate to demand. As far as the assistant, if they are licensed, then they are permitted to do transactions. Lots of the big-name teams classify their licensees as assistants even though they do much of the work. Now back to XBox…
[quote=XBoxBoy]
How open do you think most agents will be with an offer that rebates the buyer’s commission back to the seller? Can the offer specify that since the commission is agreed upon by the seller and their agent before the buyer ever enters the picture? Would the seller’s agent be likely to discourage the seller from taking such an offer, since a buyer without an agent is likely to be seen as a negative by the seller’s agent, and if you’re rebating the commission to the seller, what’s in it for the agent?
[/quote]
To some extent I think a listing agent could argue that it is not the buyer’s prerogative to interfere in the contract between seller and their agent. It would require that the listing agent approve it (not just the seller as with a usual offer). That being said, I have seen this kind of offer written first hand. While I think that you have a point that some or much of the leg work would be born by the buyer, the issue is that unrepresented non-realtors are widely considered to be more likely to do things that are considered “out of bounds” (lying about something material, being obstinate on an unimportant issue, changing a document after it has been signed, arguing about the fault line on a zone disclosure). As an agent I have seen several examples. This potential referee role is why most listing agents would prefer to treat this situation as a double-end where they represent both sides in the transaction (and get both comission sides). They feel that with only one professional, they are likely going to have to work much harder to keep things on the rails. This is what I have seen agents presented with this situation describe. Bottomline: The incentive structure of most real estate is against this type of arrangement and there is nothing beneficial in it for the listing agent. I may be naive or idealistic but I think most truly ethical agents would present such an offer and try to describe the relative merits dispassionately to their seller. Some who are not ethical would just shred it.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
If the seller’s agent is not receptive to rebating the buyers commission back to the seller, isn’t the buyer then better off going with someone like redfin that will at least rebate some of the commission to the buyer?
[/quote]
At an economic level, yes. If the work can be done just as effectively with more money back, this is a no-brainer. That qualifying “if” is the big variable. Lots of people who do not practice but have either an active license, an inactive license, or perhaps just info gleaned on the web or in a class, think they have the skills to handle a transaction. Some are correct and some are not. Lots of people get screwed or screw other people doing this.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
As a second topic, if a buyer is making an offer without an agent, what’s the best place to get the necessary forms? In particular I’m thinking about the purchase contract, and disclosure forms. When I sold my house in 2004 I had to fill out pages of disclosures, and I’d like to be able to hand similar forms to the seller. I know some disclosures are required by law. I looked on the San Diego Association of Realtors site, but it looks like they won’t sell you forms unless you have a license.
[/quote]
The forms can be gotten from the listing agent.
That would be the most cost effective route. While the whole thrust of this thread is avoiding cost, I would consider it advisable to at the least hire a TC. They could advise you which forms are relevant. Though you could even avoid this. If you are opposite an agent from a big name brand brokerage (eg: a C21, ReMax, Pru Cal, or McMillin) then the agent broker or office manager will likely insist that the right forms get used.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
Thanks for all your comments,

XBoxBoy[/quote]

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]Rustico & SD Realtor,

I had no idea my questions would get so far into the nitty gritty of commissions. But wondering if we can follow up on the case where the person buying represents themselves and is not an agent, and does not work with a broker. Assume in this case that the buyer has found the property through websites, etc and is prepared to do a good bit of the leg work. (ie arrange for inspections, deal with escrow, etc)
[/quote]
First to Yoda, sorry if I seemed a bit contrary. I do that but I did not mean to get rude. Regarding alternative service models, I do see their value. I used to be a branch manager for a very productive HelpUSell office and I do acknowledge the value of keeping the service provided appropriate to demand. As far as the assistant, if they are licensed, then they are permitted to do transactions. Lots of the big-name teams classify their licensees as assistants even though they do much of the work. Now back to XBox…
[quote=XBoxBoy]
How open do you think most agents will be with an offer that rebates the buyer’s commission back to the seller? Can the offer specify that since the commission is agreed upon by the seller and their agent before the buyer ever enters the picture? Would the seller’s agent be likely to discourage the seller from taking such an offer, since a buyer without an agent is likely to be seen as a negative by the seller’s agent, and if you’re rebating the commission to the seller, what’s in it for the agent?
[/quote]
To some extent I think a listing agent could argue that it is not the buyer’s prerogative to interfere in the contract between seller and their agent. It would require that the listing agent approve it (not just the seller as with a usual offer). That being said, I have seen this kind of offer written first hand. While I think that you have a point that some or much of the leg work would be born by the buyer, the issue is that unrepresented non-realtors are widely considered to be more likely to do things that are considered “out of bounds” (lying about something material, being obstinate on an unimportant issue, changing a document after it has been signed, arguing about the fault line on a zone disclosure). As an agent I have seen several examples. This potential referee role is why most listing agents would prefer to treat this situation as a double-end where they represent both sides in the transaction (and get both comission sides). They feel that with only one professional, they are likely going to have to work much harder to keep things on the rails. This is what I have seen agents presented with this situation describe. Bottomline: The incentive structure of most real estate is against this type of arrangement and there is nothing beneficial in it for the listing agent. I may be naive or idealistic but I think most truly ethical agents would present such an offer and try to describe the relative merits dispassionately to their seller. Some who are not ethical would just shred it.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
If the seller’s agent is not receptive to rebating the buyers commission back to the seller, isn’t the buyer then better off going with someone like redfin that will at least rebate some of the commission to the buyer?
[/quote]
At an economic level, yes. If the work can be done just as effectively with more money back, this is a no-brainer. That qualifying “if” is the big variable. Lots of people who do not practice but have either an active license, an inactive license, or perhaps just info gleaned on the web or in a class, think they have the skills to handle a transaction. Some are correct and some are not. Lots of people get screwed or screw other people doing this.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
As a second topic, if a buyer is making an offer without an agent, what’s the best place to get the necessary forms? In particular I’m thinking about the purchase contract, and disclosure forms. When I sold my house in 2004 I had to fill out pages of disclosures, and I’d like to be able to hand similar forms to the seller. I know some disclosures are required by law. I looked on the San Diego Association of Realtors site, but it looks like they won’t sell you forms unless you have a license.
[/quote]
The forms can be gotten from the listing agent.
That would be the most cost effective route. While the whole thrust of this thread is avoiding cost, I would consider it advisable to at the least hire a TC. They could advise you which forms are relevant. Though you could even avoid this. If you are opposite an agent from a big name brand brokerage (eg: a C21, ReMax, Pru Cal, or McMillin) then the agent broker or office manager will likely insist that the right forms get used.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
Thanks for all your comments,

XBoxBoy[/quote]

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]Rustico & SD Realtor,

I had no idea my questions would get so far into the nitty gritty of commissions. But wondering if we can follow up on the case where the person buying represents themselves and is not an agent, and does not work with a broker. Assume in this case that the buyer has found the property through websites, etc and is prepared to do a good bit of the leg work. (ie arrange for inspections, deal with escrow, etc)
[/quote]
First to Yoda, sorry if I seemed a bit contrary. I do that but I did not mean to get rude. Regarding alternative service models, I do see their value. I used to be a branch manager for a very productive HelpUSell office and I do acknowledge the value of keeping the service provided appropriate to demand. As far as the assistant, if they are licensed, then they are permitted to do transactions. Lots of the big-name teams classify their licensees as assistants even though they do much of the work. Now back to XBox…
[quote=XBoxBoy]
How open do you think most agents will be with an offer that rebates the buyer’s commission back to the seller? Can the offer specify that since the commission is agreed upon by the seller and their agent before the buyer ever enters the picture? Would the seller’s agent be likely to discourage the seller from taking such an offer, since a buyer without an agent is likely to be seen as a negative by the seller’s agent, and if you’re rebating the commission to the seller, what’s in it for the agent?
[/quote]
To some extent I think a listing agent could argue that it is not the buyer’s prerogative to interfere in the contract between seller and their agent. It would require that the listing agent approve it (not just the seller as with a usual offer). That being said, I have seen this kind of offer written first hand. While I think that you have a point that some or much of the leg work would be born by the buyer, the issue is that unrepresented non-realtors are widely considered to be more likely to do things that are considered “out of bounds” (lying about something material, being obstinate on an unimportant issue, changing a document after it has been signed, arguing about the fault line on a zone disclosure). As an agent I have seen several examples. This potential referee role is why most listing agents would prefer to treat this situation as a double-end where they represent both sides in the transaction (and get both comission sides). They feel that with only one professional, they are likely going to have to work much harder to keep things on the rails. This is what I have seen agents presented with this situation describe. Bottomline: The incentive structure of most real estate is against this type of arrangement and there is nothing beneficial in it for the listing agent. I may be naive or idealistic but I think most truly ethical agents would present such an offer and try to describe the relative merits dispassionately to their seller. Some who are not ethical would just shred it.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
If the seller’s agent is not receptive to rebating the buyers commission back to the seller, isn’t the buyer then better off going with someone like redfin that will at least rebate some of the commission to the buyer?
[/quote]
At an economic level, yes. If the work can be done just as effectively with more money back, this is a no-brainer. That qualifying “if” is the big variable. Lots of people who do not practice but have either an active license, an inactive license, or perhaps just info gleaned on the web or in a class, think they have the skills to handle a transaction. Some are correct and some are not. Lots of people get screwed or screw other people doing this.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
As a second topic, if a buyer is making an offer without an agent, what’s the best place to get the necessary forms? In particular I’m thinking about the purchase contract, and disclosure forms. When I sold my house in 2004 I had to fill out pages of disclosures, and I’d like to be able to hand similar forms to the seller. I know some disclosures are required by law. I looked on the San Diego Association of Realtors site, but it looks like they won’t sell you forms unless you have a license.
[/quote]
The forms can be gotten from the listing agent.
That would be the most cost effective route. While the whole thrust of this thread is avoiding cost, I would consider it advisable to at the least hire a TC. They could advise you which forms are relevant. Though you could even avoid this. If you are opposite an agent from a big name brand brokerage (eg: a C21, ReMax, Pru Cal, or McMillin) then the agent broker or office manager will likely insist that the right forms get used.
[quote=XBoxBoy]
Thanks for all your comments,

XBoxBoy[/quote]

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=SD Realtor]Lets try this again…

Call SDAR (San Diego Association of Realtors) and they can give you the costs for membership and MLS access. Your broker will need to be a member as well in order for you to receive access.
[/quote]

The one thing I would add to Yoda’s comments here is that the Sandicor (San Diego County Regional MLS) does allow non Realtor agents to have full MLS access for a different fee. I believe they have to be “brokered up” and the access is technically the broker’s access. Or if you broker with a Realtor with MLS access but you are not a Realtor yourself, you can get MLS access on a separate arrangement. EG: My assistant is a licensed agent. He is not a member of SDAR, CAR, or NAR. He pays a reduced fee (like 50 bucks a qtr) to have MLS access. My fees with everything included, is closer to 4x that.

One thing I did not hear you mention explicitly (though I may have missed it) is that if your goal is to get the entire CBB on your purchase, you will need a broker and a split arrangement. Also, some sellers (and/or their agents) will not award a CBB when the agent is the buyer. You might want to clarify that with the listing agent before offering.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=SD Realtor]Lets try this again…

Call SDAR (San Diego Association of Realtors) and they can give you the costs for membership and MLS access. Your broker will need to be a member as well in order for you to receive access.
[/quote]

The one thing I would add to Yoda’s comments here is that the Sandicor (San Diego County Regional MLS) does allow non Realtor agents to have full MLS access for a different fee. I believe they have to be “brokered up” and the access is technically the broker’s access. Or if you broker with a Realtor with MLS access but you are not a Realtor yourself, you can get MLS access on a separate arrangement. EG: My assistant is a licensed agent. He is not a member of SDAR, CAR, or NAR. He pays a reduced fee (like 50 bucks a qtr) to have MLS access. My fees with everything included, is closer to 4x that.

One thing I did not hear you mention explicitly (though I may have missed it) is that if your goal is to get the entire CBB on your purchase, you will need a broker and a split arrangement. Also, some sellers (and/or their agents) will not award a CBB when the agent is the buyer. You might want to clarify that with the listing agent before offering.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=SD Realtor]Lets try this again…

Call SDAR (San Diego Association of Realtors) and they can give you the costs for membership and MLS access. Your broker will need to be a member as well in order for you to receive access.
[/quote]

The one thing I would add to Yoda’s comments here is that the Sandicor (San Diego County Regional MLS) does allow non Realtor agents to have full MLS access for a different fee. I believe they have to be “brokered up” and the access is technically the broker’s access. Or if you broker with a Realtor with MLS access but you are not a Realtor yourself, you can get MLS access on a separate arrangement. EG: My assistant is a licensed agent. He is not a member of SDAR, CAR, or NAR. He pays a reduced fee (like 50 bucks a qtr) to have MLS access. My fees with everything included, is closer to 4x that.

One thing I did not hear you mention explicitly (though I may have missed it) is that if your goal is to get the entire CBB on your purchase, you will need a broker and a split arrangement. Also, some sellers (and/or their agents) will not award a CBB when the agent is the buyer. You might want to clarify that with the listing agent before offering.

[Author]

Posts