[urbanrealtor]

[quote=BGinRB]
Ah, I see a straw man and possible ad hominem.
Ad hominem: “you will be able.”
Straw man: necessity vs. possibility of money being spent.

Since the future appreciation cannot be known there is no point in arguing about it.

[/quote]
The terms you used don’t seem to jive with the citations you made. Unless you 2 had a separate conversation that was not on the thread, I saw no personal attack be esmith on you (your ad hominem). Just using the second person does not generally qualify.
Also, making a competing argument is (necessity v possibility) does not a straw man make. I did not see her (I think its her) reduce your arguments to absurdity and attack them.

While we are bandying about debate club terms, your inapplicable use of “straw-man” and “ad-hominem” are “red-herrings”. It is a distraction from the primary debate and (while intention cannot be determined) they seem to be an intentional attempt to distract.

It seems like you are trying to throw her off her argument (which seems pretty strong).

I don’t generally agree with esmith. But her rent v buy scenario does seem to stand up here. Appreciation can never be known but trends and graphs that track rent to purchase can be obtained (and thus speculation can be made). Rich’s previous graphs about cash flow were very good for this purpose.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=BGinRB]
Ah, I see a straw man and possible ad hominem.
Ad hominem: “you will be able.”
Straw man: necessity vs. possibility of money being spent.

Since the future appreciation cannot be known there is no point in arguing about it.

[/quote]
The terms you used don’t seem to jive with the citations you made. Unless you 2 had a separate conversation that was not on the thread, I saw no personal attack be esmith on you (your ad hominem). Just using the second person does not generally qualify.
Also, making a competing argument is (necessity v possibility) does not a straw man make. I did not see her (I think its her) reduce your arguments to absurdity and attack them.

While we are bandying about debate club terms, your inapplicable use of “straw-man” and “ad-hominem” are “red-herrings”. It is a distraction from the primary debate and (while intention cannot be determined) they seem to be an intentional attempt to distract.

It seems like you are trying to throw her off her argument (which seems pretty strong).

I don’t generally agree with esmith. But her rent v buy scenario does seem to stand up here. Appreciation can never be known but trends and graphs that track rent to purchase can be obtained (and thus speculation can be made). Rich’s previous graphs about cash flow were very good for this purpose.

[urbanrealtor]

If some of this was covered in previous posts on this thread, I apologize. I did not read all of them.

To Esmith.
National City’s hispanic component is generally regarded as Chicano (as I technically am) and not Mexican. In other words, people whose grandparents and great-grandparents came over the border. Alternatively, some saw the border change and so therefore the country they lived in. Those areas generally do not have a high percentage of illegals. It is always hard to tell when you have a group that is averse to being identified so numbers are always slippery but this is why Oceanside probably has more illegals than East Los Angeles.

As a professional, I have seen only a few buyers that appeared to be using a relatives papers for purchasing. Even then it was structured as the legal resident purchasing and showing up to fill out forms. Usually, they referred to the relative without papers as their “advisor” or “assistant” so the real arrangement was unclear. I speak Spanish (which my clients don’t realize) and there was never open discussion about it. My point here is that I doubt there were huge effects on itinerant illegals but maybe someone else has better information?

[urbanrealtor]

If some of this was covered in previous posts on this thread, I apologize. I did not read all of them.

To Esmith.
National City’s hispanic component is generally regarded as Chicano (as I technically am) and not Mexican. In other words, people whose grandparents and great-grandparents came over the border. Alternatively, some saw the border change and so therefore the country they lived in. Those areas generally do not have a high percentage of illegals. It is always hard to tell when you have a group that is averse to being identified so numbers are always slippery but this is why Oceanside probably has more illegals than East Los Angeles.

As a professional, I have seen only a few buyers that appeared to be using a relatives papers for purchasing. Even then it was structured as the legal resident purchasing and showing up to fill out forms. Usually, they referred to the relative without papers as their “advisor” or “assistant” so the real arrangement was unclear. I speak Spanish (which my clients don’t realize) and there was never open discussion about it. My point here is that I doubt there were huge effects on itinerant illegals but maybe someone else has better information?

[urbanrealtor]

If some of this was covered in previous posts on this thread, I apologize. I did not read all of them.

To Esmith.
National City’s hispanic component is generally regarded as Chicano (as I technically am) and not Mexican. In other words, people whose grandparents and great-grandparents came over the border. Alternatively, some saw the border change and so therefore the country they lived in. Those areas generally do not have a high percentage of illegals. It is always hard to tell when you have a group that is averse to being identified so numbers are always slippery but this is why Oceanside probably has more illegals than East Los Angeles.

As a professional, I have seen only a few buyers that appeared to be using a relatives papers for purchasing. Even then it was structured as the legal resident purchasing and showing up to fill out forms. Usually, they referred to the relative without papers as their “advisor” or “assistant” so the real arrangement was unclear. I speak Spanish (which my clients don’t realize) and there was never open discussion about it. My point here is that I doubt there were huge effects on itinerant illegals but maybe someone else has better information?

[urbanrealtor]

If some of this was covered in previous posts on this thread, I apologize. I did not read all of them.

To Esmith.
National City’s hispanic component is generally regarded as Chicano (as I technically am) and not Mexican. In other words, people whose grandparents and great-grandparents came over the border. Alternatively, some saw the border change and so therefore the country they lived in. Those areas generally do not have a high percentage of illegals. It is always hard to tell when you have a group that is averse to being identified so numbers are always slippery but this is why Oceanside probably has more illegals than East Los Angeles.

As a professional, I have seen only a few buyers that appeared to be using a relatives papers for purchasing. Even then it was structured as the legal resident purchasing and showing up to fill out forms. Usually, they referred to the relative without papers as their “advisor” or “assistant” so the real arrangement was unclear. I speak Spanish (which my clients don’t realize) and there was never open discussion about it. My point here is that I doubt there were huge effects on itinerant illegals but maybe someone else has better information?

[urbanrealtor]

If some of this was covered in previous posts on this thread, I apologize. I did not read all of them.

To Esmith.
National City’s hispanic component is generally regarded as Chicano (as I technically am) and not Mexican. In other words, people whose grandparents and great-grandparents came over the border. Alternatively, some saw the border change and so therefore the country they lived in. Those areas generally do not have a high percentage of illegals. It is always hard to tell when you have a group that is averse to being identified so numbers are always slippery but this is why Oceanside probably has more illegals than East Los Angeles.

As a professional, I have seen only a few buyers that appeared to be using a relatives papers for purchasing. Even then it was structured as the legal resident purchasing and showing up to fill out forms. Usually, they referred to the relative without papers as their “advisor” or “assistant” so the real arrangement was unclear. I speak Spanish (which my clients don’t realize) and there was never open discussion about it. My point here is that I doubt there were huge effects on itinerant illegals but maybe someone else has better information?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=nostradamus]You camp there too?

Anyone else seen the police drills in Balboa park? Full gear, swat teams, horses, shields, 200+ men. looks like prep. for riots to me. Go ahead and check it out early in the mornings.[/quote]

I camp in many very weird places (Cuba, Thailand, India, KOA…).

But seriously, are other people seeing this?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=nostradamus]You camp there too?

Anyone else seen the police drills in Balboa park? Full gear, swat teams, horses, shields, 200+ men. looks like prep. for riots to me. Go ahead and check it out early in the mornings.[/quote]

I camp in many very weird places (Cuba, Thailand, India, KOA…).

But seriously, are other people seeing this?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=nostradamus]You camp there too?

Anyone else seen the police drills in Balboa park? Full gear, swat teams, horses, shields, 200+ men. looks like prep. for riots to me. Go ahead and check it out early in the mornings.[/quote]

I camp in many very weird places (Cuba, Thailand, India, KOA…).

But seriously, are other people seeing this?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=nostradamus]You camp there too?

Anyone else seen the police drills in Balboa park? Full gear, swat teams, horses, shields, 200+ men. looks like prep. for riots to me. Go ahead and check it out early in the mornings.[/quote]

I camp in many very weird places (Cuba, Thailand, India, KOA…).

But seriously, are other people seeing this?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=nostradamus]You camp there too?

Anyone else seen the police drills in Balboa park? Full gear, swat teams, horses, shields, 200+ men. looks like prep. for riots to me. Go ahead and check it out early in the mornings.[/quote]

I camp in many very weird places (Cuba, Thailand, India, KOA…).

But seriously, are other people seeing this?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]Maybe I should start a new topic, but I’m wondering who is buying out there these days, maybe the Realtors can comment.

Is it first time buyers?[/quote]
Many of them.

[quote=cooprider] Are people moving up, moving down? [/quote]Very few that involve people also selling so usually an additional place or a first home or a first investment property.
[quote=cooprider] Foreigners? [/quote]
Piles of them. Lots of people who have seen their US net worth increase 20% and now want something with a beach that has nice weather and a zoo.
[quote=cooprider] And how are they paying for it these days? 20% down?[/quote]
This part really varies. Generally foreigners bring as large a cash component as possible. People buying a first home generally dont need a lot down because in many places purchase carrying cost at 90-97% financed is about the same as market rent.

[quote=cooprider]

I tend to think we are in a transitional phase where people might be moving into something more affordable, but then there’s the issue of how they sell what they currently own and can’t afford. I’ve read of people fraudulently claiming rental income on a house they own only to foreclose on it once they close on the new one. Seen that?[/quote]
I have heard of it but not actually seen it.
This only has some utility because (and people don’t realize this part) many of the loans don’t stop with foreclosure. The banks will sometimes follow you for the money after. The only loans that are immune to this are original purchase money loans.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]Maybe I should start a new topic, but I’m wondering who is buying out there these days, maybe the Realtors can comment.

Is it first time buyers?[/quote]
Many of them.

[quote=cooprider] Are people moving up, moving down? [/quote]Very few that involve people also selling so usually an additional place or a first home or a first investment property.
[quote=cooprider] Foreigners? [/quote]
Piles of them. Lots of people who have seen their US net worth increase 20% and now want something with a beach that has nice weather and a zoo.
[quote=cooprider] And how are they paying for it these days? 20% down?[/quote]
This part really varies. Generally foreigners bring as large a cash component as possible. People buying a first home generally dont need a lot down because in many places purchase carrying cost at 90-97% financed is about the same as market rent.

[quote=cooprider]

I tend to think we are in a transitional phase where people might be moving into something more affordable, but then there’s the issue of how they sell what they currently own and can’t afford. I’ve read of people fraudulently claiming rental income on a house they own only to foreclose on it once they close on the new one. Seen that?[/quote]
I have heard of it but not actually seen it.
This only has some utility because (and people don’t realize this part) many of the loans don’t stop with foreclosure. The banks will sometimes follow you for the money after. The only loans that are immune to this are original purchase money loans.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]Maybe I should start a new topic, but I’m wondering who is buying out there these days, maybe the Realtors can comment.

Is it first time buyers?[/quote]
Many of them.

[quote=cooprider] Are people moving up, moving down? [/quote]Very few that involve people also selling so usually an additional place or a first home or a first investment property.
[quote=cooprider] Foreigners? [/quote]
Piles of them. Lots of people who have seen their US net worth increase 20% and now want something with a beach that has nice weather and a zoo.
[quote=cooprider] And how are they paying for it these days? 20% down?[/quote]
This part really varies. Generally foreigners bring as large a cash component as possible. People buying a first home generally dont need a lot down because in many places purchase carrying cost at 90-97% financed is about the same as market rent.

[quote=cooprider]

I tend to think we are in a transitional phase where people might be moving into something more affordable, but then there’s the issue of how they sell what they currently own and can’t afford. I’ve read of people fraudulently claiming rental income on a house they own only to foreclose on it once they close on the new one. Seen that?[/quote]
I have heard of it but not actually seen it.
This only has some utility because (and people don’t realize this part) many of the loans don’t stop with foreclosure. The banks will sometimes follow you for the money after. The only loans that are immune to this are original purchase money loans.

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