[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Effective Demand][quote=urbanrealtor]Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.[/quote]

It is pretty black and white and tends to favor the damaged party…

[quote=urbanrealtor]I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific. [/quote]

California Civil Code Section 1951.2 and basic contract law

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.[/quote]

You can reasonably disagree on fees and it not be bad faith. The LL made a good faith effort in mitigating damage (Heck I was impressed he rented it so quick!).

I think the calculus of the decision goes something like this.

If the LL didn’t itemize deductions and work effort for repairs in 21 days of move out then he gives up the right to retaining security deposit and all the wear and tear type damage. BUT, that does not mean he gives up the right to the breach of contract damages he incurred and he would have to ask and then sue the OP for that money.

By the OP’s count I see the breach of contract damage at a minimum:

15 days unrented = $1487
11 months at lowered rent = $1375

Then the OP and LL would be fighting about the stuff in the middle (how many actual days it was empty the LL claims 20, marketing fees to get it rented, OP’s claim to the gardner money should be paid back). I think the difference between the deposit and minimum liability is small (a few hundred dollars) and the difference over the deposit and maximum liability is significant (couple grand) that calling it even sounds awfully darn good.[/quote]

It only sounds good if you are a landlord.
Contract law is not some western Koran.
Contracts get broken all the time.
I actually specialize in breaking lending and real estate contracts.
Its how I pay the bills.
Circumstances change and consequences (like a withheld deposit) are the remedy.
This is about negotiating what is an appropriate consequence.
But back to the specific issues mentioned:
The law allows for 3 types of deduction from deposit:
-unpaid rent (vacant days may arguably qualify)
-damage beyond wear and tear
-cleaning

There is no provision for some sort of non-specific “breach of contract damages”.

That would be an illegal deduction.

Doing construction and fraudulently describing them as being necessary to repair extraordinary damage (as alleged by the OP) is by definition acting in bad faith. This is easy to clear up as receipts and specific clarification must be produced upon demand. “Reasonable disagreement” is hard (though not impossible) to imagine.

That would also be an illegal deduction.

There is no provision for the change in the rental market or the need for an agent.

Those would also be illegal deductions.

In this case, I think the injured party would be seen as the tenant.

Further, deducting for the days of vacancy could (though would not necessarily) require that the landlord document that he advertised the property as soon as he got the notice (which the OP said he gave).
Finally, there is the bad faith again and the treble damages.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Effective Demand][quote=urbanrealtor]Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.[/quote]

It is pretty black and white and tends to favor the damaged party…

[quote=urbanrealtor]I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific. [/quote]

California Civil Code Section 1951.2 and basic contract law

[quote=urbanrealtor]Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.[/quote]

You can reasonably disagree on fees and it not be bad faith. The LL made a good faith effort in mitigating damage (Heck I was impressed he rented it so quick!).

I think the calculus of the decision goes something like this.

If the LL didn’t itemize deductions and work effort for repairs in 21 days of move out then he gives up the right to retaining security deposit and all the wear and tear type damage. BUT, that does not mean he gives up the right to the breach of contract damages he incurred and he would have to ask and then sue the OP for that money.

By the OP’s count I see the breach of contract damage at a minimum:

15 days unrented = $1487
11 months at lowered rent = $1375

Then the OP and LL would be fighting about the stuff in the middle (how many actual days it was empty the LL claims 20, marketing fees to get it rented, OP’s claim to the gardner money should be paid back). I think the difference between the deposit and minimum liability is small (a few hundred dollars) and the difference over the deposit and maximum liability is significant (couple grand) that calling it even sounds awfully darn good.[/quote]

It only sounds good if you are a landlord.
Contract law is not some western Koran.
Contracts get broken all the time.
I actually specialize in breaking lending and real estate contracts.
Its how I pay the bills.
Circumstances change and consequences (like a withheld deposit) are the remedy.
This is about negotiating what is an appropriate consequence.
But back to the specific issues mentioned:
The law allows for 3 types of deduction from deposit:
-unpaid rent (vacant days may arguably qualify)
-damage beyond wear and tear
-cleaning

There is no provision for some sort of non-specific “breach of contract damages”.

That would be an illegal deduction.

Doing construction and fraudulently describing them as being necessary to repair extraordinary damage (as alleged by the OP) is by definition acting in bad faith. This is easy to clear up as receipts and specific clarification must be produced upon demand. “Reasonable disagreement” is hard (though not impossible) to imagine.

That would also be an illegal deduction.

There is no provision for the change in the rental market or the need for an agent.

Those would also be illegal deductions.

In this case, I think the injured party would be seen as the tenant.

Further, deducting for the days of vacancy could (though would not necessarily) require that the landlord document that he advertised the property as soon as he got the notice (which the OP said he gave).
Finally, there is the bad faith again and the treble damages.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=DataAgent]WCN…
urbanrealtor is wrong. You have no case.

However, if you want a very tenant-friendly lawyer to review your situation, here’s a good guy:
http://www.tenantslegalcenter.com/html/the_tenants_legal_center.html

I’ve sent several people to him and they all came away pleased with the results. His basic fee is less than $200. A bargain in the lawyer business. If you have any chance of recovering some cash from your landlord, he’ll let you know. At a minimum, you’ll learn a lot about Californis tenant law and be better prepared for next time.

Good luck.[/quote]

Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.

If you can show me I am wrong, I would be glad to expand my knowledge.

I have done this several times and I read a lot on tenant rights.

I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific.

Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.

If it were me, I would do this in a heartbeat and would not spend more than the cost of small claim filing fee. Also, they have legal advisors there at the small claims office.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=DataAgent]WCN…
urbanrealtor is wrong. You have no case.

However, if you want a very tenant-friendly lawyer to review your situation, here’s a good guy:
http://www.tenantslegalcenter.com/html/the_tenants_legal_center.html

I’ve sent several people to him and they all came away pleased with the results. His basic fee is less than $200. A bargain in the lawyer business. If you have any chance of recovering some cash from your landlord, he’ll let you know. At a minimum, you’ll learn a lot about Californis tenant law and be better prepared for next time.

Good luck.[/quote]

Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.

If you can show me I am wrong, I would be glad to expand my knowledge.

I have done this several times and I read a lot on tenant rights.

I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific.

Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.

If it were me, I would do this in a heartbeat and would not spend more than the cost of small claim filing fee. Also, they have legal advisors there at the small claims office.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=DataAgent]WCN…
urbanrealtor is wrong. You have no case.

However, if you want a very tenant-friendly lawyer to review your situation, here’s a good guy:
http://www.tenantslegalcenter.com/html/the_tenants_legal_center.html

I’ve sent several people to him and they all came away pleased with the results. His basic fee is less than $200. A bargain in the lawyer business. If you have any chance of recovering some cash from your landlord, he’ll let you know. At a minimum, you’ll learn a lot about Californis tenant law and be better prepared for next time.

Good luck.[/quote]

Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.

If you can show me I am wrong, I would be glad to expand my knowledge.

I have done this several times and I read a lot on tenant rights.

I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific.

Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.

If it were me, I would do this in a heartbeat and would not spend more than the cost of small claim filing fee. Also, they have legal advisors there at the small claims office.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=DataAgent]WCN…
urbanrealtor is wrong. You have no case.

However, if you want a very tenant-friendly lawyer to review your situation, here’s a good guy:
http://www.tenantslegalcenter.com/html/the_tenants_legal_center.html

I’ve sent several people to him and they all came away pleased with the results. His basic fee is less than $200. A bargain in the lawyer business. If you have any chance of recovering some cash from your landlord, he’ll let you know. At a minimum, you’ll learn a lot about Californis tenant law and be better prepared for next time.

Good luck.[/quote]

Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.

If you can show me I am wrong, I would be glad to expand my knowledge.

I have done this several times and I read a lot on tenant rights.

I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific.

Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.

If it were me, I would do this in a heartbeat and would not spend more than the cost of small claim filing fee. Also, they have legal advisors there at the small claims office.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=DataAgent]WCN…
urbanrealtor is wrong. You have no case.

However, if you want a very tenant-friendly lawyer to review your situation, here’s a good guy:
http://www.tenantslegalcenter.com/html/the_tenants_legal_center.html

I’ve sent several people to him and they all came away pleased with the results. His basic fee is less than $200. A bargain in the lawyer business. If you have any chance of recovering some cash from your landlord, he’ll let you know. At a minimum, you’ll learn a lot about Californis tenant law and be better prepared for next time.

Good luck.[/quote]

Why is there no case? The law is pretty black and white on this stuff and tends to favor the tenant.

If you can show me I am wrong, I would be glad to expand my knowledge.

I have done this several times and I read a lot on tenant rights.

I am open to the idea that I am wrong but I would like it if you could be specific.

Also, lying about work being done (as alleged by the OP) counts as bad faith. Treble damages really would apply.

If it were me, I would do this in a heartbeat and would not spend more than the cost of small claim filing fee. Also, they have legal advisors there at the small claims office.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=WestCoastNole]OK – I have heard back from my former landlord and he is proposing that we basically “call it even” – (i.e. he keeps my Security Deposit (2975 + 250 pet deposit), AND the 200 for the gardener ) – Here is his “accounting” of the charges that he is applying against the deposit:

1) Labor + cost of material: $1700 – $1900
2) 6% commision paid to realtor: $1881
(6% x $2850/months x 11months)
3) 20 days lost rent: $1983
(20 days / 30 days x $2975/month)
4) Monthly lost due to lower rent $1375 ($2975-$2850) x 11 months

1) Item 1 is nuts – this is what he paid a contractor to do some work around the house, but he has not included a detailed accounting of what the contractor did and what he is specifically charging me for ( i.e. I get the whole bill just because – I talked with the contractor when I was there and the majority of the work had NOTHING to do with our use of the property (i.e. there was illegal plumbing in the wall behind the kitchen that leaked and caused damage to the particle board that needed to be repaired ) – A good portion of the remainder of the work falls into the “fair wear and tear” in my book, but I am sure that that has alot to do with perspective so for argument’s sake I’ll assume that there is $250.00 above and beyond what is reasonable wear and tear.

2) WHAT – This is absurd – I am supposed to pay for his cost to rerent the unit ? Am I missing something here ?

3) Not too far off – I calculated 15 days so we are pretty close on this.

4) This is a surprise – since he rented out the place for less than he was charging me, Am I on the hook for the difference ????

I am going to sleep on this and put together a “counter offer” in the morning – ANY insight or opinions as to what I should and should not agree to would be, as always, very much appreciated.

Thanks again for all the input !!!

WCN[/quote]

Item 1:
He will need to provide receipts for this.
If he does not, he can’t collect.
If he does, you can ask the contractor for elaboration.

Item 2:
Uhhh no.
He can’t really charge you for this.

Item 3:
Whatever.

Item 4:
Uhh no again.

He can only deduct for
-negligent/excessive damage
-back rent (including days while he looked for a tenant)
-cleaning

Please remind him that California awards treble damages. Offer to cover the empty days and advise that if he does not return the rest, you will see him in court. Remind him about the video.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=WestCoastNole]OK – I have heard back from my former landlord and he is proposing that we basically “call it even” – (i.e. he keeps my Security Deposit (2975 + 250 pet deposit), AND the 200 for the gardener ) – Here is his “accounting” of the charges that he is applying against the deposit:

1) Labor + cost of material: $1700 – $1900
2) 6% commision paid to realtor: $1881
(6% x $2850/months x 11months)
3) 20 days lost rent: $1983
(20 days / 30 days x $2975/month)
4) Monthly lost due to lower rent $1375 ($2975-$2850) x 11 months

1) Item 1 is nuts – this is what he paid a contractor to do some work around the house, but he has not included a detailed accounting of what the contractor did and what he is specifically charging me for ( i.e. I get the whole bill just because – I talked with the contractor when I was there and the majority of the work had NOTHING to do with our use of the property (i.e. there was illegal plumbing in the wall behind the kitchen that leaked and caused damage to the particle board that needed to be repaired ) – A good portion of the remainder of the work falls into the “fair wear and tear” in my book, but I am sure that that has alot to do with perspective so for argument’s sake I’ll assume that there is $250.00 above and beyond what is reasonable wear and tear.

2) WHAT – This is absurd – I am supposed to pay for his cost to rerent the unit ? Am I missing something here ?

3) Not too far off – I calculated 15 days so we are pretty close on this.

4) This is a surprise – since he rented out the place for less than he was charging me, Am I on the hook for the difference ????

I am going to sleep on this and put together a “counter offer” in the morning – ANY insight or opinions as to what I should and should not agree to would be, as always, very much appreciated.

Thanks again for all the input !!!

WCN[/quote]

Item 1:
He will need to provide receipts for this.
If he does not, he can’t collect.
If he does, you can ask the contractor for elaboration.

Item 2:
Uhhh no.
He can’t really charge you for this.

Item 3:
Whatever.

Item 4:
Uhh no again.

He can only deduct for
-negligent/excessive damage
-back rent (including days while he looked for a tenant)
-cleaning

Please remind him that California awards treble damages. Offer to cover the empty days and advise that if he does not return the rest, you will see him in court. Remind him about the video.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=WestCoastNole]OK – I have heard back from my former landlord and he is proposing that we basically “call it even” – (i.e. he keeps my Security Deposit (2975 + 250 pet deposit), AND the 200 for the gardener ) – Here is his “accounting” of the charges that he is applying against the deposit:

1) Labor + cost of material: $1700 – $1900
2) 6% commision paid to realtor: $1881
(6% x $2850/months x 11months)
3) 20 days lost rent: $1983
(20 days / 30 days x $2975/month)
4) Monthly lost due to lower rent $1375 ($2975-$2850) x 11 months

1) Item 1 is nuts – this is what he paid a contractor to do some work around the house, but he has not included a detailed accounting of what the contractor did and what he is specifically charging me for ( i.e. I get the whole bill just because – I talked with the contractor when I was there and the majority of the work had NOTHING to do with our use of the property (i.e. there was illegal plumbing in the wall behind the kitchen that leaked and caused damage to the particle board that needed to be repaired ) – A good portion of the remainder of the work falls into the “fair wear and tear” in my book, but I am sure that that has alot to do with perspective so for argument’s sake I’ll assume that there is $250.00 above and beyond what is reasonable wear and tear.

2) WHAT – This is absurd – I am supposed to pay for his cost to rerent the unit ? Am I missing something here ?

3) Not too far off – I calculated 15 days so we are pretty close on this.

4) This is a surprise – since he rented out the place for less than he was charging me, Am I on the hook for the difference ????

I am going to sleep on this and put together a “counter offer” in the morning – ANY insight or opinions as to what I should and should not agree to would be, as always, very much appreciated.

Thanks again for all the input !!!

WCN[/quote]

Item 1:
He will need to provide receipts for this.
If he does not, he can’t collect.
If he does, you can ask the contractor for elaboration.

Item 2:
Uhhh no.
He can’t really charge you for this.

Item 3:
Whatever.

Item 4:
Uhh no again.

He can only deduct for
-negligent/excessive damage
-back rent (including days while he looked for a tenant)
-cleaning

Please remind him that California awards treble damages. Offer to cover the empty days and advise that if he does not return the rest, you will see him in court. Remind him about the video.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=WestCoastNole]OK – I have heard back from my former landlord and he is proposing that we basically “call it even” – (i.e. he keeps my Security Deposit (2975 + 250 pet deposit), AND the 200 for the gardener ) – Here is his “accounting” of the charges that he is applying against the deposit:

1) Labor + cost of material: $1700 – $1900
2) 6% commision paid to realtor: $1881
(6% x $2850/months x 11months)
3) 20 days lost rent: $1983
(20 days / 30 days x $2975/month)
4) Monthly lost due to lower rent $1375 ($2975-$2850) x 11 months

1) Item 1 is nuts – this is what he paid a contractor to do some work around the house, but he has not included a detailed accounting of what the contractor did and what he is specifically charging me for ( i.e. I get the whole bill just because – I talked with the contractor when I was there and the majority of the work had NOTHING to do with our use of the property (i.e. there was illegal plumbing in the wall behind the kitchen that leaked and caused damage to the particle board that needed to be repaired ) – A good portion of the remainder of the work falls into the “fair wear and tear” in my book, but I am sure that that has alot to do with perspective so for argument’s sake I’ll assume that there is $250.00 above and beyond what is reasonable wear and tear.

2) WHAT – This is absurd – I am supposed to pay for his cost to rerent the unit ? Am I missing something here ?

3) Not too far off – I calculated 15 days so we are pretty close on this.

4) This is a surprise – since he rented out the place for less than he was charging me, Am I on the hook for the difference ????

I am going to sleep on this and put together a “counter offer” in the morning – ANY insight or opinions as to what I should and should not agree to would be, as always, very much appreciated.

Thanks again for all the input !!!

WCN[/quote]

Item 1:
He will need to provide receipts for this.
If he does not, he can’t collect.
If he does, you can ask the contractor for elaboration.

Item 2:
Uhhh no.
He can’t really charge you for this.

Item 3:
Whatever.

Item 4:
Uhh no again.

He can only deduct for
-negligent/excessive damage
-back rent (including days while he looked for a tenant)
-cleaning

Please remind him that California awards treble damages. Offer to cover the empty days and advise that if he does not return the rest, you will see him in court. Remind him about the video.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=WestCoastNole]OK – I have heard back from my former landlord and he is proposing that we basically “call it even” – (i.e. he keeps my Security Deposit (2975 + 250 pet deposit), AND the 200 for the gardener ) – Here is his “accounting” of the charges that he is applying against the deposit:

1) Labor + cost of material: $1700 – $1900
2) 6% commision paid to realtor: $1881
(6% x $2850/months x 11months)
3) 20 days lost rent: $1983
(20 days / 30 days x $2975/month)
4) Monthly lost due to lower rent $1375 ($2975-$2850) x 11 months

1) Item 1 is nuts – this is what he paid a contractor to do some work around the house, but he has not included a detailed accounting of what the contractor did and what he is specifically charging me for ( i.e. I get the whole bill just because – I talked with the contractor when I was there and the majority of the work had NOTHING to do with our use of the property (i.e. there was illegal plumbing in the wall behind the kitchen that leaked and caused damage to the particle board that needed to be repaired ) – A good portion of the remainder of the work falls into the “fair wear and tear” in my book, but I am sure that that has alot to do with perspective so for argument’s sake I’ll assume that there is $250.00 above and beyond what is reasonable wear and tear.

2) WHAT – This is absurd – I am supposed to pay for his cost to rerent the unit ? Am I missing something here ?

3) Not too far off – I calculated 15 days so we are pretty close on this.

4) This is a surprise – since he rented out the place for less than he was charging me, Am I on the hook for the difference ????

I am going to sleep on this and put together a “counter offer” in the morning – ANY insight or opinions as to what I should and should not agree to would be, as always, very much appreciated.

Thanks again for all the input !!!

WCN[/quote]

Item 1:
He will need to provide receipts for this.
If he does not, he can’t collect.
If he does, you can ask the contractor for elaboration.

Item 2:
Uhhh no.
He can’t really charge you for this.

Item 3:
Whatever.

Item 4:
Uhh no again.

He can only deduct for
-negligent/excessive damage
-back rent (including days while he looked for a tenant)
-cleaning

Please remind him that California awards treble damages. Offer to cover the empty days and advise that if he does not return the rest, you will see him in court. Remind him about the video.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Effective Demand][quote=WestCoastNole]NOTE – The property has been rented out already ( we have been keeping tabs – the moving truck showed up on August 10th ) . . .[/quote]

Well that certainly limits your downside.[/quote]

No shit.

Ask for the money (in writing).

Refer him to this site:
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/index.shtml

Then go spend some time with the small claims division at the courthouse on Clairemont Mesa Blvd.

The legal advice desk is very helpful and they actually seem to enjoy their job.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Effective Demand][quote=WestCoastNole]NOTE – The property has been rented out already ( we have been keeping tabs – the moving truck showed up on August 10th ) . . .[/quote]

Well that certainly limits your downside.[/quote]

No shit.

Ask for the money (in writing).

Refer him to this site:
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/index.shtml

Then go spend some time with the small claims division at the courthouse on Clairemont Mesa Blvd.

The legal advice desk is very helpful and they actually seem to enjoy their job.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=Effective Demand][quote=WestCoastNole]NOTE – The property has been rented out already ( we have been keeping tabs – the moving truck showed up on August 10th ) . . .[/quote]

Well that certainly limits your downside.[/quote]

No shit.

Ask for the money (in writing).

Refer him to this site:
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/index.shtml

Then go spend some time with the small claims division at the courthouse on Clairemont Mesa Blvd.

The legal advice desk is very helpful and they actually seem to enjoy their job.

[Author]

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