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surveyor
Participant[quote=Arraya]Right now fundamentalist evangelicals and zionists are actively supporting ethnic cleansing in Gaza because of prophecy and divine right.[/quote]
So what scripture of the Talmud are they using to justify their ethnic cleansing?
[quote=Arraya]However, this is state sanctioned religious fundamentalism and the cause of much of the resurgence of muslim religious killing.[/quote]
No, actually persecution of others and specifically jews by muslims has been going on for centuries. It never stopped.
[quote=Arraya]Jihadists actively seeking to kill innocents took a several hundred year hiatus until the past few decades. It is helpful to understand why rather than blathering about religious scripture. Because two can play that game.[/quote]
I don’t see you quoting any scripture. Because if you’re playing that game, you’re not even scoring.
But I will tell you that jihadism was badly damaged during WW2 when the Mufti of Jerusalem sided with Adolf Hitler.
Jihadism also failed miserably at blackmailing the then new nation of the United States into protection money. This resulted in the first Barbary War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
The ambassadors strategy of the Barbary states (who were independent muslim states at the time) is very telling:
It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy’s ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.
Whoops there’s that word again. And gee, they must be so pissed off at zionism because they are clearly engaging in terrorism and jihadist behavior. Too bad this occurred a couple of hundred years before Israel was founded.
Anyways, it just seems like you’re just trying too hard to basically say, “we’re just as violent as them” or “well the zionists do it so the jihadists are justified”. Or “well we go to war and we need excuses”. Or other things. Kind of like telling a raped woman, well you dressed inappropriately, you were asking for it.
Unfortunately, the jihadists do know why they do what they do and they tell us. They say it is because they have been commanded by Mohammed. They often say it is because the Koran commands that they attack jews and infidels. Now these motivations have nothing to do with zionists or oil, or anything else. They’ve been telling us their motivations for centuries and even after 9/11 many of us aren’t listening.
Still, some interesting reading:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203946904574300241762121888.html
The Hebron Massacre. No jewish state then. No zionists then. No war for oil then. But yet here is a modern example of jihadism.
Participant[quote=Arraya]Right now fundamentalist evangelicals and zionists are actively supporting ethnic cleansing in Gaza because of prophecy and divine right.[/quote]
So what scripture of the Talmud are they using to justify their ethnic cleansing?
[quote=Arraya]However, this is state sanctioned religious fundamentalism and the cause of much of the resurgence of muslim religious killing.[/quote]
No, actually persecution of others and specifically jews by muslims has been going on for centuries. It never stopped.
[quote=Arraya]Jihadists actively seeking to kill innocents took a several hundred year hiatus until the past few decades. It is helpful to understand why rather than blathering about religious scripture. Because two can play that game.[/quote]
I don’t see you quoting any scripture. Because if you’re playing that game, you’re not even scoring.
But I will tell you that jihadism was badly damaged during WW2 when the Mufti of Jerusalem sided with Adolf Hitler.
Jihadism also failed miserably at blackmailing the then new nation of the United States into protection money. This resulted in the first Barbary War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
The ambassadors strategy of the Barbary states (who were independent muslim states at the time) is very telling:
It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy’s ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.
Whoops there’s that word again. And gee, they must be so pissed off at zionism because they are clearly engaging in terrorism and jihadist behavior. Too bad this occurred a couple of hundred years before Israel was founded.
Anyways, it just seems like you’re just trying too hard to basically say, “we’re just as violent as them” or “well the zionists do it so the jihadists are justified”. Or “well we go to war and we need excuses”. Or other things. Kind of like telling a raped woman, well you dressed inappropriately, you were asking for it.
Unfortunately, the jihadists do know why they do what they do and they tell us. They say it is because they have been commanded by Mohammed. They often say it is because the Koran commands that they attack jews and infidels. Now these motivations have nothing to do with zionists or oil, or anything else. They’ve been telling us their motivations for centuries and even after 9/11 many of us aren’t listening.
Still, some interesting reading:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203946904574300241762121888.html
The Hebron Massacre. No jewish state then. No zionists then. No war for oil then. But yet here is a modern example of jihadism.
Participant[quote=Arraya]Right now fundamentalist evangelicals and zionists are actively supporting ethnic cleansing in Gaza because of prophecy and divine right.[/quote]
So what scripture of the Talmud are they using to justify their ethnic cleansing?
[quote=Arraya]However, this is state sanctioned religious fundamentalism and the cause of much of the resurgence of muslim religious killing.[/quote]
No, actually persecution of others and specifically jews by muslims has been going on for centuries. It never stopped.
[quote=Arraya]Jihadists actively seeking to kill innocents took a several hundred year hiatus until the past few decades. It is helpful to understand why rather than blathering about religious scripture. Because two can play that game.[/quote]
I don’t see you quoting any scripture. Because if you’re playing that game, you’re not even scoring.
But I will tell you that jihadism was badly damaged during WW2 when the Mufti of Jerusalem sided with Adolf Hitler.
Jihadism also failed miserably at blackmailing the then new nation of the United States into protection money. This resulted in the first Barbary War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
The ambassadors strategy of the Barbary states (who were independent muslim states at the time) is very telling:
It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy’s ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.
Whoops there’s that word again. And gee, they must be so pissed off at zionism because they are clearly engaging in terrorism and jihadist behavior. Too bad this occurred a couple of hundred years before Israel was founded.
Anyways, it just seems like you’re just trying too hard to basically say, “we’re just as violent as them” or “well the zionists do it so the jihadists are justified”. Or “well we go to war and we need excuses”. Or other things. Kind of like telling a raped woman, well you dressed inappropriately, you were asking for it.
Unfortunately, the jihadists do know why they do what they do and they tell us. They say it is because they have been commanded by Mohammed. They often say it is because the Koran commands that they attack jews and infidels. Now these motivations have nothing to do with zionists or oil, or anything else. They’ve been telling us their motivations for centuries and even after 9/11 many of us aren’t listening.
Still, some interesting reading:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203946904574300241762121888.html
The Hebron Massacre. No jewish state then. No zionists then. No war for oil then. But yet here is a modern example of jihadism.
Participant[quote=afx114]Surveyor,
Why is the Christian Right opposed to calling violence against homosexuals a hate crime? Would they rather it be called terrorism?[/quote]
I don’t know, I’m not part of the Christian right.
Participant[quote=afx114]Surveyor,
Why is the Christian Right opposed to calling violence against homosexuals a hate crime? Would they rather it be called terrorism?[/quote]
I don’t know, I’m not part of the Christian right.
Participant[quote=afx114]Surveyor,
Why is the Christian Right opposed to calling violence against homosexuals a hate crime? Would they rather it be called terrorism?[/quote]
I don’t know, I’m not part of the Christian right.
Participant[quote=afx114]Surveyor,
Why is the Christian Right opposed to calling violence against homosexuals a hate crime? Would they rather it be called terrorism?[/quote]
I don’t know, I’m not part of the Christian right.
Participant[quote=afx114]Surveyor,
Why is the Christian Right opposed to calling violence against homosexuals a hate crime? Would they rather it be called terrorism?[/quote]
I don’t know, I’m not part of the Christian right.
Participant[quote=Arraya]There may be violent verses in the Bible, but there are none that actively say or have been interpreted by religious scholars as “go kill people today”.
What about this guy…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
WICHITA, Kansas – Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation’s few providers of late-term abortions through decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir.[/quote]
Huh. I must have missed the part where the killer quoted religious scripture as his justification. And that he was backed up by a few hundred years of religious rulings by the relevant religious scholars.
Nice try though. One guy killed for somewhat questionable religious motives vs. more than 10,000 since 9/11.
Participant[quote=Arraya]There may be violent verses in the Bible, but there are none that actively say or have been interpreted by religious scholars as “go kill people today”.
What about this guy…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
WICHITA, Kansas – Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation’s few providers of late-term abortions through decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir.[/quote]
Huh. I must have missed the part where the killer quoted religious scripture as his justification. And that he was backed up by a few hundred years of religious rulings by the relevant religious scholars.
Nice try though. One guy killed for somewhat questionable religious motives vs. more than 10,000 since 9/11.
Participant[quote=Arraya]There may be violent verses in the Bible, but there are none that actively say or have been interpreted by religious scholars as “go kill people today”.
What about this guy…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
WICHITA, Kansas – Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation’s few providers of late-term abortions through decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir.[/quote]
Huh. I must have missed the part where the killer quoted religious scripture as his justification. And that he was backed up by a few hundred years of religious rulings by the relevant religious scholars.
Nice try though. One guy killed for somewhat questionable religious motives vs. more than 10,000 since 9/11.
Participant[quote=Arraya]There may be violent verses in the Bible, but there are none that actively say or have been interpreted by religious scholars as “go kill people today”.
What about this guy…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
WICHITA, Kansas – Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation’s few providers of late-term abortions through decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir.[/quote]
Huh. I must have missed the part where the killer quoted religious scripture as his justification. And that he was backed up by a few hundred years of religious rulings by the relevant religious scholars.
Nice try though. One guy killed for somewhat questionable religious motives vs. more than 10,000 since 9/11.
Participant[quote=Arraya]There may be violent verses in the Bible, but there are none that actively say or have been interpreted by religious scholars as “go kill people today”.
What about this guy…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31029377/
WICHITA, Kansas – Dr. George Tiller, who remained one of the nation’s few providers of late-term abortions through decades of protests and attacks, was shot and killed Sunday in a church where he was serving as an usher and his wife was in the choir.[/quote]
Huh. I must have missed the part where the killer quoted religious scripture as his justification. And that he was backed up by a few hundred years of religious rulings by the relevant religious scholars.
Nice try though. One guy killed for somewhat questionable religious motives vs. more than 10,000 since 9/11.
Participant[quote=sdduuuude][quote=surveyor][quote=sdduuuude]
Has nothing to do with Muslim or not Muslim. The quesiton is – what was this guy trying to accomplish and did he demand anything first ?[/quote]Bzzzzt! Wrong, sorry, thank you for playing.
[/quote]How could I be wrong ?
I asked a question – did he demand anything first ?Just because he wants the people to sing the praises of Islam doesn’t mean that he actually asked them to before or after the violence. In other words, hey may have wanted to terrorize – that is, scare the people into converting, but did he actually terrorize ? That’s all I’m saying.
Unless you issue demands, you are just a killer, not a terrorist.
I’d label this a hate-crime or a fundamental religious nut-job, but not terrorism the way I believe it is defined.[/quote]
=sigh= Ok, let me spell it out for you then.
According to the scripture I quoted, many muslims are commanded by the Koran to TERRORIZE. This interpretation of the Koran has been upheld by many of their religious scholars, even up to today. So your statement of whether he was muslim or not muslim having nothing to do with his action was wrong. It had everything to do with his being a muslim.
You know, maybe he didn’t fit your definition of terrorist. But when you look at the Koran and his actions, he is following the commandments of the Koran and Mohammed’s example, who said to TERRORIZE. So he is a terrorist.
There may be violent verses in the Bible, but there are none that actively say or have been interpreted by religious scholars as “go kill people today”.
Instantly assuming that his being muslim had nothing to do with his actions is willful blindness, the same kind of willful blindness that let the military to keep him inside despite his long history of disturbing behavior. It was this blindness that allowed him to kill those people in Ft. Hood.
That’s how you were wrong.
Qur’an (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”
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