[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

[quote=beachlover]

Either the US endorses and practices torture or we don’t. We either agree to stand behind the conventions we sign and endorse or we don’t. The circumstances cannot justify the ends no matter the enemy.

[/quote]

Beachlover, unfortunately in America or any other country in the world nothing is black and white. There is gray in just about everything. The thought of torturing probably didn’t occur until terrorists destroyed two sacred buildings in this country with many of our citizens.

You may want to read some laws about what is deemed legal or illegal in our government’s current actions. We may not all agree with the stimulus packages, but unfortunately we don’t have that choice. Sometimes things have to be done for a reason and neither you or I have a choice in the matter. If they work they work and if they don’t what can we do?

You might want to step outside the box for a moment and realize that playing by the rules doesn’t always work. Ask a fellow responsible American about that!

[socrattt]

I do appreciate all the insight here! Last night after writing this post I started doing a bit more research and went to bed thinking today may be a very telling day in the markets. In fact so telling that I wanted to put money in some short financial ETF’s like Proshares SKF (of course it was up 20% today). Unfortunately I woke up a bit too late but my instinct was correct. The market has gone on an upswing way too long. The banks can’t hide all this negative information too much longer and at some level we shouldn’t see any stability in either the stock markets or RE markets for sometime.

I agree that the government is looking at the RE markets from a much broader aspect than those strictly focused on Real Estate, so it is hard for many of us to understand the motives here. We can definitely speculate, but their plans are far from obvious. In order for the government to stabilize the markets they are going to have to control the supply, which they have done. There are obvious problems when trying to control supply and demand and we will probably see the ramifications of this within the next 12 months. The banks are going to continue to lose as the government can only do so much. We still have a lot of negative news that will have a much greater impact in my opinion. I think the commercial RE collapse will also cause a wide range of problems for banks. This storm is still brewing, but should take shape within the next 6-12 months as well.

All that said we can only hope hyper-inflation won’t take a dramatic hold of the US Dollar as the Fed doesn’t have the ability to stop it. We are going to need a miracle for these markets to remain sustainable and at this point, I just don’t see that happening.

[socrattt]

I do appreciate all the insight here! Last night after writing this post I started doing a bit more research and went to bed thinking today may be a very telling day in the markets. In fact so telling that I wanted to put money in some short financial ETF’s like Proshares SKF (of course it was up 20% today). Unfortunately I woke up a bit too late but my instinct was correct. The market has gone on an upswing way too long. The banks can’t hide all this negative information too much longer and at some level we shouldn’t see any stability in either the stock markets or RE markets for sometime.

I agree that the government is looking at the RE markets from a much broader aspect than those strictly focused on Real Estate, so it is hard for many of us to understand the motives here. We can definitely speculate, but their plans are far from obvious. In order for the government to stabilize the markets they are going to have to control the supply, which they have done. There are obvious problems when trying to control supply and demand and we will probably see the ramifications of this within the next 12 months. The banks are going to continue to lose as the government can only do so much. We still have a lot of negative news that will have a much greater impact in my opinion. I think the commercial RE collapse will also cause a wide range of problems for banks. This storm is still brewing, but should take shape within the next 6-12 months as well.

All that said we can only hope hyper-inflation won’t take a dramatic hold of the US Dollar as the Fed doesn’t have the ability to stop it. We are going to need a miracle for these markets to remain sustainable and at this point, I just don’t see that happening.

[socrattt]

I do appreciate all the insight here! Last night after writing this post I started doing a bit more research and went to bed thinking today may be a very telling day in the markets. In fact so telling that I wanted to put money in some short financial ETF’s like Proshares SKF (of course it was up 20% today). Unfortunately I woke up a bit too late but my instinct was correct. The market has gone on an upswing way too long. The banks can’t hide all this negative information too much longer and at some level we shouldn’t see any stability in either the stock markets or RE markets for sometime.

I agree that the government is looking at the RE markets from a much broader aspect than those strictly focused on Real Estate, so it is hard for many of us to understand the motives here. We can definitely speculate, but their plans are far from obvious. In order for the government to stabilize the markets they are going to have to control the supply, which they have done. There are obvious problems when trying to control supply and demand and we will probably see the ramifications of this within the next 12 months. The banks are going to continue to lose as the government can only do so much. We still have a lot of negative news that will have a much greater impact in my opinion. I think the commercial RE collapse will also cause a wide range of problems for banks. This storm is still brewing, but should take shape within the next 6-12 months as well.

All that said we can only hope hyper-inflation won’t take a dramatic hold of the US Dollar as the Fed doesn’t have the ability to stop it. We are going to need a miracle for these markets to remain sustainable and at this point, I just don’t see that happening.

[socrattt]

I do appreciate all the insight here! Last night after writing this post I started doing a bit more research and went to bed thinking today may be a very telling day in the markets. In fact so telling that I wanted to put money in some short financial ETF’s like Proshares SKF (of course it was up 20% today). Unfortunately I woke up a bit too late but my instinct was correct. The market has gone on an upswing way too long. The banks can’t hide all this negative information too much longer and at some level we shouldn’t see any stability in either the stock markets or RE markets for sometime.

I agree that the government is looking at the RE markets from a much broader aspect than those strictly focused on Real Estate, so it is hard for many of us to understand the motives here. We can definitely speculate, but their plans are far from obvious. In order for the government to stabilize the markets they are going to have to control the supply, which they have done. There are obvious problems when trying to control supply and demand and we will probably see the ramifications of this within the next 12 months. The banks are going to continue to lose as the government can only do so much. We still have a lot of negative news that will have a much greater impact in my opinion. I think the commercial RE collapse will also cause a wide range of problems for banks. This storm is still brewing, but should take shape within the next 6-12 months as well.

All that said we can only hope hyper-inflation won’t take a dramatic hold of the US Dollar as the Fed doesn’t have the ability to stop it. We are going to need a miracle for these markets to remain sustainable and at this point, I just don’t see that happening.

[socrattt]

I do appreciate all the insight here! Last night after writing this post I started doing a bit more research and went to bed thinking today may be a very telling day in the markets. In fact so telling that I wanted to put money in some short financial ETF’s like Proshares SKF (of course it was up 20% today). Unfortunately I woke up a bit too late but my instinct was correct. The market has gone on an upswing way too long. The banks can’t hide all this negative information too much longer and at some level we shouldn’t see any stability in either the stock markets or RE markets for sometime.

I agree that the government is looking at the RE markets from a much broader aspect than those strictly focused on Real Estate, so it is hard for many of us to understand the motives here. We can definitely speculate, but their plans are far from obvious. In order for the government to stabilize the markets they are going to have to control the supply, which they have done. There are obvious problems when trying to control supply and demand and we will probably see the ramifications of this within the next 12 months. The banks are going to continue to lose as the government can only do so much. We still have a lot of negative news that will have a much greater impact in my opinion. I think the commercial RE collapse will also cause a wide range of problems for banks. This storm is still brewing, but should take shape within the next 6-12 months as well.

All that said we can only hope hyper-inflation won’t take a dramatic hold of the US Dollar as the Fed doesn’t have the ability to stop it. We are going to need a miracle for these markets to remain sustainable and at this point, I just don’t see that happening.

[socrattt]

[quote=SD Realtor]Socratt I have given up trying to figure it out. The housing market is absolutely on fire right now and yes to me it does not make any sense. All I can say is that people are doing exactly what the government wants them to do. They are buying homes, they are buying into the stock market and pretty much just chugging along. I am not saying I have a clue what will happen because it seems impossible to be sustainable. However it is absolutely imperative to get some of this shadow inventory to get into the market because it is just crazy right now. [/quote]

SDR, it’s interesting because in one sense I can’t complain because my business is doing really well right now and there is much more cash on the table than there was a couple of months ago. On the other hand I wonder if we are being misinformed simply to keep US consumer spending moving which will in turn put a temporary float on the economic numbers.

I agree 100% that we need this inventory to start showing up on the market ASAP because it seems as though we could have an immediate impact to prices if these inventories hit the market in a 2-3 month period. I read some interesting numbers about the release of foreclosures supposedly hitting the market during the months of May and July, which would seem to have a pretty dramatic impact nationally.

I think it would have been a much smarter move for the banks to leak these ghost inventories sporadically rather than hold them for such a long period. Assuming rates won’t stay this low for a long period, I can’t imagine that was the right decision. Once the inventory is released a number of these new plans instated by our government, i.e. 105% loans, won’t make much of difference.

I must say it has been very interesting to watch!

[socrattt]

[quote=SD Realtor]Socratt I have given up trying to figure it out. The housing market is absolutely on fire right now and yes to me it does not make any sense. All I can say is that people are doing exactly what the government wants them to do. They are buying homes, they are buying into the stock market and pretty much just chugging along. I am not saying I have a clue what will happen because it seems impossible to be sustainable. However it is absolutely imperative to get some of this shadow inventory to get into the market because it is just crazy right now. [/quote]

SDR, it’s interesting because in one sense I can’t complain because my business is doing really well right now and there is much more cash on the table than there was a couple of months ago. On the other hand I wonder if we are being misinformed simply to keep US consumer spending moving which will in turn put a temporary float on the economic numbers.

I agree 100% that we need this inventory to start showing up on the market ASAP because it seems as though we could have an immediate impact to prices if these inventories hit the market in a 2-3 month period. I read some interesting numbers about the release of foreclosures supposedly hitting the market during the months of May and July, which would seem to have a pretty dramatic impact nationally.

I think it would have been a much smarter move for the banks to leak these ghost inventories sporadically rather than hold them for such a long period. Assuming rates won’t stay this low for a long period, I can’t imagine that was the right decision. Once the inventory is released a number of these new plans instated by our government, i.e. 105% loans, won’t make much of difference.

I must say it has been very interesting to watch!

[socrattt]

[quote=SD Realtor]Socratt I have given up trying to figure it out. The housing market is absolutely on fire right now and yes to me it does not make any sense. All I can say is that people are doing exactly what the government wants them to do. They are buying homes, they are buying into the stock market and pretty much just chugging along. I am not saying I have a clue what will happen because it seems impossible to be sustainable. However it is absolutely imperative to get some of this shadow inventory to get into the market because it is just crazy right now. [/quote]

SDR, it’s interesting because in one sense I can’t complain because my business is doing really well right now and there is much more cash on the table than there was a couple of months ago. On the other hand I wonder if we are being misinformed simply to keep US consumer spending moving which will in turn put a temporary float on the economic numbers.

I agree 100% that we need this inventory to start showing up on the market ASAP because it seems as though we could have an immediate impact to prices if these inventories hit the market in a 2-3 month period. I read some interesting numbers about the release of foreclosures supposedly hitting the market during the months of May and July, which would seem to have a pretty dramatic impact nationally.

I think it would have been a much smarter move for the banks to leak these ghost inventories sporadically rather than hold them for such a long period. Assuming rates won’t stay this low for a long period, I can’t imagine that was the right decision. Once the inventory is released a number of these new plans instated by our government, i.e. 105% loans, won’t make much of difference.

I must say it has been very interesting to watch!

[socrattt]

[quote=SD Realtor]Socratt I have given up trying to figure it out. The housing market is absolutely on fire right now and yes to me it does not make any sense. All I can say is that people are doing exactly what the government wants them to do. They are buying homes, they are buying into the stock market and pretty much just chugging along. I am not saying I have a clue what will happen because it seems impossible to be sustainable. However it is absolutely imperative to get some of this shadow inventory to get into the market because it is just crazy right now. [/quote]

SDR, it’s interesting because in one sense I can’t complain because my business is doing really well right now and there is much more cash on the table than there was a couple of months ago. On the other hand I wonder if we are being misinformed simply to keep US consumer spending moving which will in turn put a temporary float on the economic numbers.

I agree 100% that we need this inventory to start showing up on the market ASAP because it seems as though we could have an immediate impact to prices if these inventories hit the market in a 2-3 month period. I read some interesting numbers about the release of foreclosures supposedly hitting the market during the months of May and July, which would seem to have a pretty dramatic impact nationally.

I think it would have been a much smarter move for the banks to leak these ghost inventories sporadically rather than hold them for such a long period. Assuming rates won’t stay this low for a long period, I can’t imagine that was the right decision. Once the inventory is released a number of these new plans instated by our government, i.e. 105% loans, won’t make much of difference.

I must say it has been very interesting to watch!

[socrattt]

[quote=SD Realtor]Socratt I have given up trying to figure it out. The housing market is absolutely on fire right now and yes to me it does not make any sense. All I can say is that people are doing exactly what the government wants them to do. They are buying homes, they are buying into the stock market and pretty much just chugging along. I am not saying I have a clue what will happen because it seems impossible to be sustainable. However it is absolutely imperative to get some of this shadow inventory to get into the market because it is just crazy right now. [/quote]

SDR, it’s interesting because in one sense I can’t complain because my business is doing really well right now and there is much more cash on the table than there was a couple of months ago. On the other hand I wonder if we are being misinformed simply to keep US consumer spending moving which will in turn put a temporary float on the economic numbers.

I agree 100% that we need this inventory to start showing up on the market ASAP because it seems as though we could have an immediate impact to prices if these inventories hit the market in a 2-3 month period. I read some interesting numbers about the release of foreclosures supposedly hitting the market during the months of May and July, which would seem to have a pretty dramatic impact nationally.

I think it would have been a much smarter move for the banks to leak these ghost inventories sporadically rather than hold them for such a long period. Assuming rates won’t stay this low for a long period, I can’t imagine that was the right decision. Once the inventory is released a number of these new plans instated by our government, i.e. 105% loans, won’t make much of difference.

I must say it has been very interesting to watch!

[Author]

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