[Rich Toscano]

You actually have it pretty easy, Ox. My girlfriend has a cat on the opposite end of the attention-seeking spectrum. For some reason this animal is possessed to constantly — I mean constantly — meow (loudly) and make a general racket by opening and slamming shut cabinets, etc etc. Including in the middle of the night.

For instance, a normal cat might decide to jump up on the bed. This cat meows really loudly, and THEN jumps up on the bed. Or a normal cat might just, I don’t know, lie on the bed and purr or something. This one walks back and forth on my head, or just sits on the floor, staring fixedly at a spot on the wall (where there is nothing to look at) and meowing over and over.

This didn’t really pair well with my tendency towards insomnia, so we started closing the bedroom door at night. Her response was to meow, really loudly and aggressively, and to scratch at the door like a starved wolverine. Not just scratching tentatively with one paw — she would literally stand on her hind legs and go to town on the door with both paws at once (think like a climbing motion). She would do this for hours at a time, no joke.

Eventually we moved to a two-story house where she can be locked away on her own floor at night. I still have to wear earplugs to get to sleep, lest I hear her carrying on every night.

So all in all, having a furry houseplant sounds pretty good to me.

I imagine that the cat sympathizers are queuing up with excuses for the cat, so just let me head that off. She is not out of food, she does not have a medical condition, and she does not receive too little attention (far from it). She’s just crazy, and has always been so (she’s 14 years old). And Enorah (welcome back btw, haven’t seen you in a while) — I was quite friendly with this cat at first, until she started keeping me up all night on a regular basis. The relationship cooled a bit after that, to put it lightly — but she started it!

[Rich Toscano]

You actually have it pretty easy, Ox. My girlfriend has a cat on the opposite end of the attention-seeking spectrum. For some reason this animal is possessed to constantly — I mean constantly — meow (loudly) and make a general racket by opening and slamming shut cabinets, etc etc. Including in the middle of the night.

For instance, a normal cat might decide to jump up on the bed. This cat meows really loudly, and THEN jumps up on the bed. Or a normal cat might just, I don’t know, lie on the bed and purr or something. This one walks back and forth on my head, or just sits on the floor, staring fixedly at a spot on the wall (where there is nothing to look at) and meowing over and over.

This didn’t really pair well with my tendency towards insomnia, so we started closing the bedroom door at night. Her response was to meow, really loudly and aggressively, and to scratch at the door like a starved wolverine. Not just scratching tentatively with one paw — she would literally stand on her hind legs and go to town on the door with both paws at once (think like a climbing motion). She would do this for hours at a time, no joke.

Eventually we moved to a two-story house where she can be locked away on her own floor at night. I still have to wear earplugs to get to sleep, lest I hear her carrying on every night.

So all in all, having a furry houseplant sounds pretty good to me.

I imagine that the cat sympathizers are queuing up with excuses for the cat, so just let me head that off. She is not out of food, she does not have a medical condition, and she does not receive too little attention (far from it). She’s just crazy, and has always been so (she’s 14 years old). And Enorah (welcome back btw, haven’t seen you in a while) — I was quite friendly with this cat at first, until she started keeping me up all night on a regular basis. The relationship cooled a bit after that, to put it lightly — but she started it!

[Rich Toscano]

You actually have it pretty easy, Ox. My girlfriend has a cat on the opposite end of the attention-seeking spectrum. For some reason this animal is possessed to constantly — I mean constantly — meow (loudly) and make a general racket by opening and slamming shut cabinets, etc etc. Including in the middle of the night.

For instance, a normal cat might decide to jump up on the bed. This cat meows really loudly, and THEN jumps up on the bed. Or a normal cat might just, I don’t know, lie on the bed and purr or something. This one walks back and forth on my head, or just sits on the floor, staring fixedly at a spot on the wall (where there is nothing to look at) and meowing over and over.

This didn’t really pair well with my tendency towards insomnia, so we started closing the bedroom door at night. Her response was to meow, really loudly and aggressively, and to scratch at the door like a starved wolverine. Not just scratching tentatively with one paw — she would literally stand on her hind legs and go to town on the door with both paws at once (think like a climbing motion). She would do this for hours at a time, no joke.

Eventually we moved to a two-story house where she can be locked away on her own floor at night. I still have to wear earplugs to get to sleep, lest I hear her carrying on every night.

So all in all, having a furry houseplant sounds pretty good to me.

I imagine that the cat sympathizers are queuing up with excuses for the cat, so just let me head that off. She is not out of food, she does not have a medical condition, and she does not receive too little attention (far from it). She’s just crazy, and has always been so (she’s 14 years old). And Enorah (welcome back btw, haven’t seen you in a while) — I was quite friendly with this cat at first, until she started keeping me up all night on a regular basis. The relationship cooled a bit after that, to put it lightly — but she started it!

[Rich Toscano]

You actually have it pretty easy, Ox. My girlfriend has a cat on the opposite end of the attention-seeking spectrum. For some reason this animal is possessed to constantly — I mean constantly — meow (loudly) and make a general racket by opening and slamming shut cabinets, etc etc. Including in the middle of the night.

For instance, a normal cat might decide to jump up on the bed. This cat meows really loudly, and THEN jumps up on the bed. Or a normal cat might just, I don’t know, lie on the bed and purr or something. This one walks back and forth on my head, or just sits on the floor, staring fixedly at a spot on the wall (where there is nothing to look at) and meowing over and over.

This didn’t really pair well with my tendency towards insomnia, so we started closing the bedroom door at night. Her response was to meow, really loudly and aggressively, and to scratch at the door like a starved wolverine. Not just scratching tentatively with one paw — she would literally stand on her hind legs and go to town on the door with both paws at once (think like a climbing motion). She would do this for hours at a time, no joke.

Eventually we moved to a two-story house where she can be locked away on her own floor at night. I still have to wear earplugs to get to sleep, lest I hear her carrying on every night.

So all in all, having a furry houseplant sounds pretty good to me.

I imagine that the cat sympathizers are queuing up with excuses for the cat, so just let me head that off. She is not out of food, she does not have a medical condition, and she does not receive too little attention (far from it). She’s just crazy, and has always been so (she’s 14 years old). And Enorah (welcome back btw, haven’t seen you in a while) — I was quite friendly with this cat at first, until she started keeping me up all night on a regular basis. The relationship cooled a bit after that, to put it lightly — but she started it!

[Rich Toscano]

That is a good list Gandalf, and fwiw I agree with most if not all of what you’ve said in this thread.

To be honest with you, though, I don’t enjoy the “here’s what my policy would be” thing. No disrespect to anyone who does. I just find it too frustrating. I could put all this time into researching and contemplating and designing what I think is the best possible policy, and what would be the result?

Nothing… the actual policy that gets put in place will be the typical combination of a completely misguided analytical framework, special interest favoritism, and whipping people into a tribalistic left-vs-right frenzy so they give a pass to the outrageously bad policy that gets put in place.

Like i said, just too frustrating.

I am just offering this up as a reason why I am not diving down into your question and proposal, except to say that they were very thoughtful and imho largely on the right track.

[Rich Toscano]

That is a good list Gandalf, and fwiw I agree with most if not all of what you’ve said in this thread.

To be honest with you, though, I don’t enjoy the “here’s what my policy would be” thing. No disrespect to anyone who does. I just find it too frustrating. I could put all this time into researching and contemplating and designing what I think is the best possible policy, and what would be the result?

Nothing… the actual policy that gets put in place will be the typical combination of a completely misguided analytical framework, special interest favoritism, and whipping people into a tribalistic left-vs-right frenzy so they give a pass to the outrageously bad policy that gets put in place.

Like i said, just too frustrating.

I am just offering this up as a reason why I am not diving down into your question and proposal, except to say that they were very thoughtful and imho largely on the right track.

[Rich Toscano]

That is a good list Gandalf, and fwiw I agree with most if not all of what you’ve said in this thread.

To be honest with you, though, I don’t enjoy the “here’s what my policy would be” thing. No disrespect to anyone who does. I just find it too frustrating. I could put all this time into researching and contemplating and designing what I think is the best possible policy, and what would be the result?

Nothing… the actual policy that gets put in place will be the typical combination of a completely misguided analytical framework, special interest favoritism, and whipping people into a tribalistic left-vs-right frenzy so they give a pass to the outrageously bad policy that gets put in place.

Like i said, just too frustrating.

I am just offering this up as a reason why I am not diving down into your question and proposal, except to say that they were very thoughtful and imho largely on the right track.

[Rich Toscano]

That is a good list Gandalf, and fwiw I agree with most if not all of what you’ve said in this thread.

To be honest with you, though, I don’t enjoy the “here’s what my policy would be” thing. No disrespect to anyone who does. I just find it too frustrating. I could put all this time into researching and contemplating and designing what I think is the best possible policy, and what would be the result?

Nothing… the actual policy that gets put in place will be the typical combination of a completely misguided analytical framework, special interest favoritism, and whipping people into a tribalistic left-vs-right frenzy so they give a pass to the outrageously bad policy that gets put in place.

Like i said, just too frustrating.

I am just offering this up as a reason why I am not diving down into your question and proposal, except to say that they were very thoughtful and imho largely on the right track.

[Rich Toscano]

That is a good list Gandalf, and fwiw I agree with most if not all of what you’ve said in this thread.

To be honest with you, though, I don’t enjoy the “here’s what my policy would be” thing. No disrespect to anyone who does. I just find it too frustrating. I could put all this time into researching and contemplating and designing what I think is the best possible policy, and what would be the result?

Nothing… the actual policy that gets put in place will be the typical combination of a completely misguided analytical framework, special interest favoritism, and whipping people into a tribalistic left-vs-right frenzy so they give a pass to the outrageously bad policy that gets put in place.

Like i said, just too frustrating.

I am just offering this up as a reason why I am not diving down into your question and proposal, except to say that they were very thoughtful and imho largely on the right track.

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=briansd1]

We have to look at the Administration’s policies in the context of the Great Recession and financial collapse, and compare them to the ideas of the opposition which would have been to do nothing.

I’m saying that Republicans would have done nothing judging from the fact that the stimulus bill passed along party lines. Zero out of 178 Republicans supported the bill. The stimulus bill included $300 billion in tax cuts.

What were the Republican ideas for getting us out of recession? None.

Of the ideas advanced by each side, which ones are preferable? That’s the question.[/quote]

No, that’s not the question.

I don’t really care what the Republicans would have done. You said that the current administration has done a “great job” with their economic policy during the recession. I said that this is horribly misguided. To disagree with this, in my opinion, is to completely misunderstand the nature of what got us here, and of what could eventually get us out. What the Republicans would have done is irrelevant.

That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.

Now look. If you like one side better than the other, that’s fine. But you conflate being better than the Republicans (in your opinion) with being great. Those aren’t the same things. And I feel the same way for all the right wingers who give the Republicans a free pass for all their sins, despite the fact that (in their opinion) the Republicans are better than the Democrats.

They both suck. Sorry. That is incontrovertible, in my opinion. So when someone says that the current administration has done a “great job” with economic economy, I’m going to call it out as being the misguided partisan cheerleading that it is.

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=briansd1]

We have to look at the Administration’s policies in the context of the Great Recession and financial collapse, and compare them to the ideas of the opposition which would have been to do nothing.

I’m saying that Republicans would have done nothing judging from the fact that the stimulus bill passed along party lines. Zero out of 178 Republicans supported the bill. The stimulus bill included $300 billion in tax cuts.

What were the Republican ideas for getting us out of recession? None.

Of the ideas advanced by each side, which ones are preferable? That’s the question.[/quote]

No, that’s not the question.

I don’t really care what the Republicans would have done. You said that the current administration has done a “great job” with their economic policy during the recession. I said that this is horribly misguided. To disagree with this, in my opinion, is to completely misunderstand the nature of what got us here, and of what could eventually get us out. What the Republicans would have done is irrelevant.

That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.

Now look. If you like one side better than the other, that’s fine. But you conflate being better than the Republicans (in your opinion) with being great. Those aren’t the same things. And I feel the same way for all the right wingers who give the Republicans a free pass for all their sins, despite the fact that (in their opinion) the Republicans are better than the Democrats.

They both suck. Sorry. That is incontrovertible, in my opinion. So when someone says that the current administration has done a “great job” with economic economy, I’m going to call it out as being the misguided partisan cheerleading that it is.

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=briansd1]

We have to look at the Administration’s policies in the context of the Great Recession and financial collapse, and compare them to the ideas of the opposition which would have been to do nothing.

I’m saying that Republicans would have done nothing judging from the fact that the stimulus bill passed along party lines. Zero out of 178 Republicans supported the bill. The stimulus bill included $300 billion in tax cuts.

What were the Republican ideas for getting us out of recession? None.

Of the ideas advanced by each side, which ones are preferable? That’s the question.[/quote]

No, that’s not the question.

I don’t really care what the Republicans would have done. You said that the current administration has done a “great job” with their economic policy during the recession. I said that this is horribly misguided. To disagree with this, in my opinion, is to completely misunderstand the nature of what got us here, and of what could eventually get us out. What the Republicans would have done is irrelevant.

That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.

Now look. If you like one side better than the other, that’s fine. But you conflate being better than the Republicans (in your opinion) with being great. Those aren’t the same things. And I feel the same way for all the right wingers who give the Republicans a free pass for all their sins, despite the fact that (in their opinion) the Republicans are better than the Democrats.

They both suck. Sorry. That is incontrovertible, in my opinion. So when someone says that the current administration has done a “great job” with economic economy, I’m going to call it out as being the misguided partisan cheerleading that it is.

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=briansd1]

We have to look at the Administration’s policies in the context of the Great Recession and financial collapse, and compare them to the ideas of the opposition which would have been to do nothing.

I’m saying that Republicans would have done nothing judging from the fact that the stimulus bill passed along party lines. Zero out of 178 Republicans supported the bill. The stimulus bill included $300 billion in tax cuts.

What were the Republican ideas for getting us out of recession? None.

Of the ideas advanced by each side, which ones are preferable? That’s the question.[/quote]

No, that’s not the question.

I don’t really care what the Republicans would have done. You said that the current administration has done a “great job” with their economic policy during the recession. I said that this is horribly misguided. To disagree with this, in my opinion, is to completely misunderstand the nature of what got us here, and of what could eventually get us out. What the Republicans would have done is irrelevant.

That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.

Now look. If you like one side better than the other, that’s fine. But you conflate being better than the Republicans (in your opinion) with being great. Those aren’t the same things. And I feel the same way for all the right wingers who give the Republicans a free pass for all their sins, despite the fact that (in their opinion) the Republicans are better than the Democrats.

They both suck. Sorry. That is incontrovertible, in my opinion. So when someone says that the current administration has done a “great job” with economic economy, I’m going to call it out as being the misguided partisan cheerleading that it is.

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=briansd1]

We have to look at the Administration’s policies in the context of the Great Recession and financial collapse, and compare them to the ideas of the opposition which would have been to do nothing.

I’m saying that Republicans would have done nothing judging from the fact that the stimulus bill passed along party lines. Zero out of 178 Republicans supported the bill. The stimulus bill included $300 billion in tax cuts.

What were the Republican ideas for getting us out of recession? None.

Of the ideas advanced by each side, which ones are preferable? That’s the question.[/quote]

No, that’s not the question.

I don’t really care what the Republicans would have done. You said that the current administration has done a “great job” with their economic policy during the recession. I said that this is horribly misguided. To disagree with this, in my opinion, is to completely misunderstand the nature of what got us here, and of what could eventually get us out. What the Republicans would have done is irrelevant.

That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.

Now look. If you like one side better than the other, that’s fine. But you conflate being better than the Republicans (in your opinion) with being great. Those aren’t the same things. And I feel the same way for all the right wingers who give the Republicans a free pass for all their sins, despite the fact that (in their opinion) the Republicans are better than the Democrats.

They both suck. Sorry. That is incontrovertible, in my opinion. So when someone says that the current administration has done a “great job” with economic economy, I’m going to call it out as being the misguided partisan cheerleading that it is.

[Rich Toscano]

[quote=briansd1]
This Administration inherited a horrible recession would have turned into a Great Depression without government intervention. They have done a great job in preventing the world from falling into economic calamity.
[/quote]

This is just nonsense… all they did was borrow a bunch of money they didn’t have. They didn’t even do a good job spending it. They just crippled future growth (or future dollar purchasing power, depending on which way it plays out), spent a huge amount of money, wasted most of it on propping up the most incompetent industries, and then announced “Mission Accomplished.”

Let’s revisit this thread in 5 years and see what a fantastic job they did when all is said and done.

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