[ocrenter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=briansd1]. . . I think it’s good advice but he won’t see anybody where there’s a record that can resurface later.

Security screening can uncover medical records and affect his job. [/quote]

brian, your friend can see a mental health professional, attend rehab and detox and/or obtain hypnosis or other treatment on his own on the sly as long as he is able to pay for it and thus keep it out of the “big insurance computer in the sky.”

He just has to save up at least a month of annual leave (if he doesn’t already have 4-6 weeks “on the books”), put in for it and tell his co-workers he’s going on vacation. No one would be the wiser :=]

Celebrities and politicians do this all the time.[/quote]

there are tons of psychiatrist or psychologist that see patients on cash basis. these are unlikely to be discoverable.

[ocrenter]

[quote=bearishgurl][quote=briansd1]. . . I think it’s good advice but he won’t see anybody where there’s a record that can resurface later.

Security screening can uncover medical records and affect his job. [/quote]

brian, your friend can see a mental health professional, attend rehab and detox and/or obtain hypnosis or other treatment on his own on the sly as long as he is able to pay for it and thus keep it out of the “big insurance computer in the sky.”

He just has to save up at least a month of annual leave (if he doesn’t already have 4-6 weeks “on the books”), put in for it and tell his co-workers he’s going on vacation. No one would be the wiser :=]

Celebrities and politicians do this all the time.[/quote]

there are tons of psychiatrist or psychologist that see patients on cash basis. these are unlikely to be discoverable.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Rustico]OCR, What is the highest occurrence of multi-factorial disease that is not alcoholism?[/quote]

most diseases out there are multi-factorial. it is extremely rare to have a disease coming from a specific cause or specific genetic mutation.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Rustico]OCR, What is the highest occurrence of multi-factorial disease that is not alcoholism?[/quote]

most diseases out there are multi-factorial. it is extremely rare to have a disease coming from a specific cause or specific genetic mutation.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Rustico]OCR, What is the highest occurrence of multi-factorial disease that is not alcoholism?[/quote]

most diseases out there are multi-factorial. it is extremely rare to have a disease coming from a specific cause or specific genetic mutation.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Rustico]OCR, What is the highest occurrence of multi-factorial disease that is not alcoholism?[/quote]

most diseases out there are multi-factorial. it is extremely rare to have a disease coming from a specific cause or specific genetic mutation.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Rustico]OCR, What is the highest occurrence of multi-factorial disease that is not alcoholism?[/quote]

most diseases out there are multi-factorial. it is extremely rare to have a disease coming from a specific cause or specific genetic mutation.

[ocrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]If the liver enzyme is BS, then that changes my view quite a bit. That makes me think then that some people just have a weaker constitution/personality. That makes me think will power plays a much stronger role than I thought.[/quote]

liver enzyme issue is BS. Asians and Native Americans both have the enzyme issue. Obviously one have significantly lower alcohol issue than the other.

there is a genetic predisposition, there’s no question about it, but we are more likely to find that in relation to neurotransmitters than liver enzyme.

but genetics is only part of the issue. and can only explain a subset of the alcoholic population.

alcohol is a sedative and works great for folks with anxiety disorder or other mood disorders. so you have a huge subset that essentially found their way to use it for purposes of self-medication. (just like large number of folks with ADHD end up finding tobacco, which does end up treating their disorder, but with deadly consequences.)

people with mood disorder that self medicate with alcohol and become addicted are more likely to respond to behavioral and psychologic treatment because they don’t really have the genetic predisposition. these also likely make up the bulk of alcoholics that “wake up” and realize they need to quit and do.

unfortunately, the genetic guys are sh!t out of luck. the typical pattern is generation I is alcoholic. generation II is split between ones that follow the lead of gen I vs the ones that swear to abstinence because they were repulsed by gen I. The interesting thing is members of gen III (offsprings of the abstinent gen II) still end up becoming alcoholics.

so you end up with these heated debates that goes on forever because nobody is stepping up to separate these groups from the very beginning and treat them differently.

please realize what is happening is folks are using the “mood disorder origin alcoholics” to disprove the genetic model. and on the other camp we have folks using the “genetic alcoholics” to disprove the environmental and will power model.

this is why brian’s friend need to go see a psychiatrist first, to figure out just which camp he belongs before the right strategy can be implemented.

[ocrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]If the liver enzyme is BS, then that changes my view quite a bit. That makes me think then that some people just have a weaker constitution/personality. That makes me think will power plays a much stronger role than I thought.[/quote]

liver enzyme issue is BS. Asians and Native Americans both have the enzyme issue. Obviously one have significantly lower alcohol issue than the other.

there is a genetic predisposition, there’s no question about it, but we are more likely to find that in relation to neurotransmitters than liver enzyme.

but genetics is only part of the issue. and can only explain a subset of the alcoholic population.

alcohol is a sedative and works great for folks with anxiety disorder or other mood disorders. so you have a huge subset that essentially found their way to use it for purposes of self-medication. (just like large number of folks with ADHD end up finding tobacco, which does end up treating their disorder, but with deadly consequences.)

people with mood disorder that self medicate with alcohol and become addicted are more likely to respond to behavioral and psychologic treatment because they don’t really have the genetic predisposition. these also likely make up the bulk of alcoholics that “wake up” and realize they need to quit and do.

unfortunately, the genetic guys are sh!t out of luck. the typical pattern is generation I is alcoholic. generation II is split between ones that follow the lead of gen I vs the ones that swear to abstinence because they were repulsed by gen I. The interesting thing is members of gen III (offsprings of the abstinent gen II) still end up becoming alcoholics.

so you end up with these heated debates that goes on forever because nobody is stepping up to separate these groups from the very beginning and treat them differently.

please realize what is happening is folks are using the “mood disorder origin alcoholics” to disprove the genetic model. and on the other camp we have folks using the “genetic alcoholics” to disprove the environmental and will power model.

this is why brian’s friend need to go see a psychiatrist first, to figure out just which camp he belongs before the right strategy can be implemented.

[ocrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]If the liver enzyme is BS, then that changes my view quite a bit. That makes me think then that some people just have a weaker constitution/personality. That makes me think will power plays a much stronger role than I thought.[/quote]

liver enzyme issue is BS. Asians and Native Americans both have the enzyme issue. Obviously one have significantly lower alcohol issue than the other.

there is a genetic predisposition, there’s no question about it, but we are more likely to find that in relation to neurotransmitters than liver enzyme.

but genetics is only part of the issue. and can only explain a subset of the alcoholic population.

alcohol is a sedative and works great for folks with anxiety disorder or other mood disorders. so you have a huge subset that essentially found their way to use it for purposes of self-medication. (just like large number of folks with ADHD end up finding tobacco, which does end up treating their disorder, but with deadly consequences.)

people with mood disorder that self medicate with alcohol and become addicted are more likely to respond to behavioral and psychologic treatment because they don’t really have the genetic predisposition. these also likely make up the bulk of alcoholics that “wake up” and realize they need to quit and do.

unfortunately, the genetic guys are sh!t out of luck. the typical pattern is generation I is alcoholic. generation II is split between ones that follow the lead of gen I vs the ones that swear to abstinence because they were repulsed by gen I. The interesting thing is members of gen III (offsprings of the abstinent gen II) still end up becoming alcoholics.

so you end up with these heated debates that goes on forever because nobody is stepping up to separate these groups from the very beginning and treat them differently.

please realize what is happening is folks are using the “mood disorder origin alcoholics” to disprove the genetic model. and on the other camp we have folks using the “genetic alcoholics” to disprove the environmental and will power model.

this is why brian’s friend need to go see a psychiatrist first, to figure out just which camp he belongs before the right strategy can be implemented.

[ocrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]If the liver enzyme is BS, then that changes my view quite a bit. That makes me think then that some people just have a weaker constitution/personality. That makes me think will power plays a much stronger role than I thought.[/quote]

liver enzyme issue is BS. Asians and Native Americans both have the enzyme issue. Obviously one have significantly lower alcohol issue than the other.

there is a genetic predisposition, there’s no question about it, but we are more likely to find that in relation to neurotransmitters than liver enzyme.

but genetics is only part of the issue. and can only explain a subset of the alcoholic population.

alcohol is a sedative and works great for folks with anxiety disorder or other mood disorders. so you have a huge subset that essentially found their way to use it for purposes of self-medication. (just like large number of folks with ADHD end up finding tobacco, which does end up treating their disorder, but with deadly consequences.)

people with mood disorder that self medicate with alcohol and become addicted are more likely to respond to behavioral and psychologic treatment because they don’t really have the genetic predisposition. these also likely make up the bulk of alcoholics that “wake up” and realize they need to quit and do.

unfortunately, the genetic guys are sh!t out of luck. the typical pattern is generation I is alcoholic. generation II is split between ones that follow the lead of gen I vs the ones that swear to abstinence because they were repulsed by gen I. The interesting thing is members of gen III (offsprings of the abstinent gen II) still end up becoming alcoholics.

so you end up with these heated debates that goes on forever because nobody is stepping up to separate these groups from the very beginning and treat them differently.

please realize what is happening is folks are using the “mood disorder origin alcoholics” to disprove the genetic model. and on the other camp we have folks using the “genetic alcoholics” to disprove the environmental and will power model.

this is why brian’s friend need to go see a psychiatrist first, to figure out just which camp he belongs before the right strategy can be implemented.

[ocrenter]

[quote=jpinpb]If the liver enzyme is BS, then that changes my view quite a bit. That makes me think then that some people just have a weaker constitution/personality. That makes me think will power plays a much stronger role than I thought.[/quote]

liver enzyme issue is BS. Asians and Native Americans both have the enzyme issue. Obviously one have significantly lower alcohol issue than the other.

there is a genetic predisposition, there’s no question about it, but we are more likely to find that in relation to neurotransmitters than liver enzyme.

but genetics is only part of the issue. and can only explain a subset of the alcoholic population.

alcohol is a sedative and works great for folks with anxiety disorder or other mood disorders. so you have a huge subset that essentially found their way to use it for purposes of self-medication. (just like large number of folks with ADHD end up finding tobacco, which does end up treating their disorder, but with deadly consequences.)

people with mood disorder that self medicate with alcohol and become addicted are more likely to respond to behavioral and psychologic treatment because they don’t really have the genetic predisposition. these also likely make up the bulk of alcoholics that “wake up” and realize they need to quit and do.

unfortunately, the genetic guys are sh!t out of luck. the typical pattern is generation I is alcoholic. generation II is split between ones that follow the lead of gen I vs the ones that swear to abstinence because they were repulsed by gen I. The interesting thing is members of gen III (offsprings of the abstinent gen II) still end up becoming alcoholics.

so you end up with these heated debates that goes on forever because nobody is stepping up to separate these groups from the very beginning and treat them differently.

please realize what is happening is folks are using the “mood disorder origin alcoholics” to disprove the genetic model. and on the other camp we have folks using the “genetic alcoholics” to disprove the environmental and will power model.

this is why brian’s friend need to go see a psychiatrist first, to figure out just which camp he belongs before the right strategy can be implemented.

[ocrenter]

all very good and well thought-out comments. we are ultimately back at nature vs nurture. of course, the debate will never end because this is a multi-factorial problem, meaning we simply will not have a single solution for every alcoholics out there.

brian, get your friend to a psychiatrist specializing in chemical dependency. how to get him there will of course be the toughest part.

here’s a good read on the subject:

http://courses.missouristate.edu/ChrisBarnhart/bio121/readings/drunk_monkeys/drunk_monkeys_files/featdrunk.htm

[ocrenter]

all very good and well thought-out comments. we are ultimately back at nature vs nurture. of course, the debate will never end because this is a multi-factorial problem, meaning we simply will not have a single solution for every alcoholics out there.

brian, get your friend to a psychiatrist specializing in chemical dependency. how to get him there will of course be the toughest part.

here’s a good read on the subject:

http://courses.missouristate.edu/ChrisBarnhart/bio121/readings/drunk_monkeys/drunk_monkeys_files/featdrunk.htm

[ocrenter]

all very good and well thought-out comments. we are ultimately back at nature vs nurture. of course, the debate will never end because this is a multi-factorial problem, meaning we simply will not have a single solution for every alcoholics out there.

brian, get your friend to a psychiatrist specializing in chemical dependency. how to get him there will of course be the toughest part.

here’s a good read on the subject:

http://courses.missouristate.edu/ChrisBarnhart/bio121/readings/drunk_monkeys/drunk_monkeys_files/featdrunk.htm

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