[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy]You could definitely be right ocr, my only point was that the landscaping itself seemed nicely done, well above the level one would expect to get from the builder.

Of course, as we know the majority of the landscaping that means anything is underground…who knows what schedule PVC they used, how the footers on the hardscaping were done, etc.[/quote]

I do agree with that. And while they are better than the typical “free” builder included landscape, they are still quite pedestrian and relatively inexpensive.

I will also say this about Serenity. it may very well still be a viable alternative for buyers, but savvyshopper should really use Toll to exert pressure on Serenity to get the pricing down.

For example, in all likelihood the offerings from Toll will prove to be of better standard and quality. Take a Toll model at $850k on a lot without premium. And compare to Serenity’s offering with the front yard landscaped for $880k. Subtract the $30k extra, which is basically the front yard and the kitchen upgrades, I would still say the serenity home is not worth $850k. More like $800k or even high 700k for those two lots prior to the dress up.

So if savvyshopper is willing, I say wait for the Toll models to be built. You’ll be able to see for yourself that Toll may be of better quality, and use Toll to drive down the serenity prices by $50k.

[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy]You could definitely be right ocr, my only point was that the landscaping itself seemed nicely done, well above the level one would expect to get from the builder.

Of course, as we know the majority of the landscaping that means anything is underground…who knows what schedule PVC they used, how the footers on the hardscaping were done, etc.[/quote]

I do agree with that. And while they are better than the typical “free” builder included landscape, they are still quite pedestrian and relatively inexpensive.

I will also say this about Serenity. it may very well still be a viable alternative for buyers, but savvyshopper should really use Toll to exert pressure on Serenity to get the pricing down.

For example, in all likelihood the offerings from Toll will prove to be of better standard and quality. Take a Toll model at $850k on a lot without premium. And compare to Serenity’s offering with the front yard landscaped for $880k. Subtract the $30k extra, which is basically the front yard and the kitchen upgrades, I would still say the serenity home is not worth $850k. More like $800k or even high 700k for those two lots prior to the dress up.

So if savvyshopper is willing, I say wait for the Toll models to be built. You’ll be able to see for yourself that Toll may be of better quality, and use Toll to drive down the serenity prices by $50k.

[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy][quote=SavvyShopper]We are looking at a home at Serenity that has front yard landscaping included,….[/quote]

I just noticed some of the new homes there have nice front landscaping included, much nicer than the typical “builder grade” landscaping one would expect. Unlike the humble landscaping Col Rich used in their homes in Tiburon, these are actually done the way an owner would have it done on their own. Was interesting to see for sure.[/quote]

Seems like serenity strategically picked the two worse lots to do the landscpaing upgrade in the front yard. 1st is a corner lot that have a cell tower jetting into its side. both lots have smaller usable lots with steep slope in the back, along with a house on Carowind very close to the edge of the slope so it would have full view of the two homes.

none of the view lots or even typical lots with slope (but homes on top are not adjacent to the slope line, limiting snooping) were selected for this special “landscaping upgrade.”

I think this is a case of trying to dress up the pigs. buyers beware.

[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy][quote=SavvyShopper]We are looking at a home at Serenity that has front yard landscaping included,….[/quote]

I just noticed some of the new homes there have nice front landscaping included, much nicer than the typical “builder grade” landscaping one would expect. Unlike the humble landscaping Col Rich used in their homes in Tiburon, these are actually done the way an owner would have it done on their own. Was interesting to see for sure.[/quote]

Seems like serenity strategically picked the two worse lots to do the landscpaing upgrade in the front yard. 1st is a corner lot that have a cell tower jetting into its side. both lots have smaller usable lots with steep slope in the back, along with a house on Carowind very close to the edge of the slope so it would have full view of the two homes.

none of the view lots or even typical lots with slope (but homes on top are not adjacent to the slope line, limiting snooping) were selected for this special “landscaping upgrade.”

I think this is a case of trying to dress up the pigs. buyers beware.

[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy][quote=SavvyShopper]We are looking at a home at Serenity that has front yard landscaping included,….[/quote]

I just noticed some of the new homes there have nice front landscaping included, much nicer than the typical “builder grade” landscaping one would expect. Unlike the humble landscaping Col Rich used in their homes in Tiburon, these are actually done the way an owner would have it done on their own. Was interesting to see for sure.[/quote]

Seems like serenity strategically picked the two worse lots to do the landscpaing upgrade in the front yard. 1st is a corner lot that have a cell tower jetting into its side. both lots have smaller usable lots with steep slope in the back, along with a house on Carowind very close to the edge of the slope so it would have full view of the two homes.

none of the view lots or even typical lots with slope (but homes on top are not adjacent to the slope line, limiting snooping) were selected for this special “landscaping upgrade.”

I think this is a case of trying to dress up the pigs. buyers beware.

[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy][quote=SavvyShopper]We are looking at a home at Serenity that has front yard landscaping included,….[/quote]

I just noticed some of the new homes there have nice front landscaping included, much nicer than the typical “builder grade” landscaping one would expect. Unlike the humble landscaping Col Rich used in their homes in Tiburon, these are actually done the way an owner would have it done on their own. Was interesting to see for sure.[/quote]

Seems like serenity strategically picked the two worse lots to do the landscpaing upgrade in the front yard. 1st is a corner lot that have a cell tower jetting into its side. both lots have smaller usable lots with steep slope in the back, along with a house on Carowind very close to the edge of the slope so it would have full view of the two homes.

none of the view lots or even typical lots with slope (but homes on top are not adjacent to the slope line, limiting snooping) were selected for this special “landscaping upgrade.”

I think this is a case of trying to dress up the pigs. buyers beware.

[ocrenter]

[quote=familyguy][quote=SavvyShopper]We are looking at a home at Serenity that has front yard landscaping included,….[/quote]

I just noticed some of the new homes there have nice front landscaping included, much nicer than the typical “builder grade” landscaping one would expect. Unlike the humble landscaping Col Rich used in their homes in Tiburon, these are actually done the way an owner would have it done on their own. Was interesting to see for sure.[/quote]

Seems like serenity strategically picked the two worse lots to do the landscpaing upgrade in the front yard. 1st is a corner lot that have a cell tower jetting into its side. both lots have smaller usable lots with steep slope in the back, along with a house on Carowind very close to the edge of the slope so it would have full view of the two homes.

none of the view lots or even typical lots with slope (but homes on top are not adjacent to the slope line, limiting snooping) were selected for this special “landscaping upgrade.”

I think this is a case of trying to dress up the pigs. buyers beware.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

IMO, obesity is a national security issue. We need to fight it harder than we fight terrorism.[/quote]

except it is easier to fight terrorism, because at least the enemy is foreign and recognizable.

the enemy in regard to obesity is us. it is the massive food and service industry. it is cultural, it is personal attitude.

the first lady has pushed for better and healthier selections of food at walmart, pushed for family gardens, pushed for exercise and weight loss. sounds nice, right? nope, she is a Food Nazi.

[img_assist|nid=15111|title=food nazi|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=450|height=338]

I am extremely pessimistic when it comes to our obesity crisis. I firmly believe the giant food industry has really learned well from the tobacco lobby and big pharma. They are truly in bed with the politicians and they will fly the flag of civil liberties whenever their interests are at risk. Best of all, they have cultivated a perfect scenario where they are able to sell absolute trash that gets people hooked and fat, yet be able to completely place the blame on the end consumer’s own gluttony.

Seriously, if you talk to any obese person, does a single obese person recognize half of the problem is the manipulative and powerful food industry? Nope. There is a lot of shame and self-loathing when you peel away the layers of defensiveness and avoidance. This overwhelming guilt that everything is their fault actually perpetuate the feeling of utter hopelessness in regard to their weight, which means a spiral into more severe obesity.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

IMO, obesity is a national security issue. We need to fight it harder than we fight terrorism.[/quote]

except it is easier to fight terrorism, because at least the enemy is foreign and recognizable.

the enemy in regard to obesity is us. it is the massive food and service industry. it is cultural, it is personal attitude.

the first lady has pushed for better and healthier selections of food at walmart, pushed for family gardens, pushed for exercise and weight loss. sounds nice, right? nope, she is a Food Nazi.

[img_assist|nid=15111|title=food nazi|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=450|height=338]

I am extremely pessimistic when it comes to our obesity crisis. I firmly believe the giant food industry has really learned well from the tobacco lobby and big pharma. They are truly in bed with the politicians and they will fly the flag of civil liberties whenever their interests are at risk. Best of all, they have cultivated a perfect scenario where they are able to sell absolute trash that gets people hooked and fat, yet be able to completely place the blame on the end consumer’s own gluttony.

Seriously, if you talk to any obese person, does a single obese person recognize half of the problem is the manipulative and powerful food industry? Nope. There is a lot of shame and self-loathing when you peel away the layers of defensiveness and avoidance. This overwhelming guilt that everything is their fault actually perpetuate the feeling of utter hopelessness in regard to their weight, which means a spiral into more severe obesity.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

IMO, obesity is a national security issue. We need to fight it harder than we fight terrorism.[/quote]

except it is easier to fight terrorism, because at least the enemy is foreign and recognizable.

the enemy in regard to obesity is us. it is the massive food and service industry. it is cultural, it is personal attitude.

the first lady has pushed for better and healthier selections of food at walmart, pushed for family gardens, pushed for exercise and weight loss. sounds nice, right? nope, she is a Food Nazi.

[img_assist|nid=15111|title=food nazi|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=450|height=338]

I am extremely pessimistic when it comes to our obesity crisis. I firmly believe the giant food industry has really learned well from the tobacco lobby and big pharma. They are truly in bed with the politicians and they will fly the flag of civil liberties whenever their interests are at risk. Best of all, they have cultivated a perfect scenario where they are able to sell absolute trash that gets people hooked and fat, yet be able to completely place the blame on the end consumer’s own gluttony.

Seriously, if you talk to any obese person, does a single obese person recognize half of the problem is the manipulative and powerful food industry? Nope. There is a lot of shame and self-loathing when you peel away the layers of defensiveness and avoidance. This overwhelming guilt that everything is their fault actually perpetuate the feeling of utter hopelessness in regard to their weight, which means a spiral into more severe obesity.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

IMO, obesity is a national security issue. We need to fight it harder than we fight terrorism.[/quote]

except it is easier to fight terrorism, because at least the enemy is foreign and recognizable.

the enemy in regard to obesity is us. it is the massive food and service industry. it is cultural, it is personal attitude.

the first lady has pushed for better and healthier selections of food at walmart, pushed for family gardens, pushed for exercise and weight loss. sounds nice, right? nope, she is a Food Nazi.

[img_assist|nid=15111|title=food nazi|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=450|height=338]

I am extremely pessimistic when it comes to our obesity crisis. I firmly believe the giant food industry has really learned well from the tobacco lobby and big pharma. They are truly in bed with the politicians and they will fly the flag of civil liberties whenever their interests are at risk. Best of all, they have cultivated a perfect scenario where they are able to sell absolute trash that gets people hooked and fat, yet be able to completely place the blame on the end consumer’s own gluttony.

Seriously, if you talk to any obese person, does a single obese person recognize half of the problem is the manipulative and powerful food industry? Nope. There is a lot of shame and self-loathing when you peel away the layers of defensiveness and avoidance. This overwhelming guilt that everything is their fault actually perpetuate the feeling of utter hopelessness in regard to their weight, which means a spiral into more severe obesity.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

IMO, obesity is a national security issue. We need to fight it harder than we fight terrorism.[/quote]

except it is easier to fight terrorism, because at least the enemy is foreign and recognizable.

the enemy in regard to obesity is us. it is the massive food and service industry. it is cultural, it is personal attitude.

the first lady has pushed for better and healthier selections of food at walmart, pushed for family gardens, pushed for exercise and weight loss. sounds nice, right? nope, she is a Food Nazi.

[img_assist|nid=15111|title=food nazi|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=450|height=338]

I am extremely pessimistic when it comes to our obesity crisis. I firmly believe the giant food industry has really learned well from the tobacco lobby and big pharma. They are truly in bed with the politicians and they will fly the flag of civil liberties whenever their interests are at risk. Best of all, they have cultivated a perfect scenario where they are able to sell absolute trash that gets people hooked and fat, yet be able to completely place the blame on the end consumer’s own gluttony.

Seriously, if you talk to any obese person, does a single obese person recognize half of the problem is the manipulative and powerful food industry? Nope. There is a lot of shame and self-loathing when you peel away the layers of defensiveness and avoidance. This overwhelming guilt that everything is their fault actually perpetuate the feeling of utter hopelessness in regard to their weight, which means a spiral into more severe obesity.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Jazzman]Thanks for the comments. I also used a cheap(er) dentist in Monterey Park, but it seems everyone is jumping on the implant band wagon. This is surgery.[/quote]

exactly, this is surgery.

you went from your original plan of having it done in Taiwan (1st world country with established standards) to Mexico (3rd world country with questionable standards). Just do not think it is worth the risk. I would equate Mexico with China in term of medical and dental facilities. There are definitely good ones, but the bad ones out number them. And finding the good ones take a lot of effort.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Jazzman]Thanks for the comments. I also used a cheap(er) dentist in Monterey Park, but it seems everyone is jumping on the implant band wagon. This is surgery.[/quote]

exactly, this is surgery.

you went from your original plan of having it done in Taiwan (1st world country with established standards) to Mexico (3rd world country with questionable standards). Just do not think it is worth the risk. I would equate Mexico with China in term of medical and dental facilities. There are definitely good ones, but the bad ones out number them. And finding the good ones take a lot of effort.

[ocrenter]

[quote=Jazzman]Thanks for the comments. I also used a cheap(er) dentist in Monterey Park, but it seems everyone is jumping on the implant band wagon. This is surgery.[/quote]

exactly, this is surgery.

you went from your original plan of having it done in Taiwan (1st world country with established standards) to Mexico (3rd world country with questionable standards). Just do not think it is worth the risk. I would equate Mexico with China in term of medical and dental facilities. There are definitely good ones, but the bad ones out number them. And finding the good ones take a lot of effort.

[Author]

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