[jstoesz]

People do not laugh at sociology, but they do laugh at many sociologists. It is probably one of the most important skils/understandings modern man can learn. Many if not most problems people come across in life are sociological.

Many academic sociologists on the other hand, have a very warped understanding of society. I very much doubt the faculty of social science team at UC Santa Cruz is well grounded in reality. sociology is so open to confirmation bias it makes economics look like simple math.

[jstoesz]

[quote=CA renter][quote=jstoesz][quote=CA renter][quote=flu]And as I said, how is this NOT class warfare?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/occupy-movement-coming-encinitas/

An Encinitas version, called Occupy North County, is scheduled to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday at Encinitas Boulevard and Coast Highway 101. For more information on that event, go to Facebook.com and search for Occupy North County.

The overall movement’s slogan is “We are the 99,” as a reference to the discrepancy of wealth between the top 1 percent of wage earners in the country compared to the rest. The demonstrators are demanding financial reform that deals with rising student loan debt, high unemployment, and tax rates.

…Pssss. Careful sdrealtor…They are coming to get you…..Better not break out the bubblies and sip them fine bottles of wine on the rooftop while you watch the protesters…Otherwise they might paint you as a target….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY%5B/quote%5D

I have a better question. How is THIS not considered class warfare?

“Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the ’80s, ’90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html%5B/quote%5D

You just quoted a SOCIOLOGY professor from UCSC.[/quote]

And…?

There are all kinds of sources out there that show these same trends. What exactly are you trying to insiunate? That the middle and working classes have done as well as the top 1-5% in the past ~30 years? Show me a single piece of evidence that proves that assertion (if that’s what you’re trying to assert).[/quote]

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics” You can spin a web based on selective stats, but let us deal with the real question here. There is no debating that there is a difference in the rich and poor, that much is obvious.

Why/how is it that ALL rich people have gotten all their money off the backs of the 99? Did all rich people get that way through ill gotten gains?

Furthermore, even if you can show that some rich people have screwed over the lower classes, how do you then justify government confiscation and redistribution as a moral solution? Do you not think that many rich people have provided an incredible service to their employees and deserve the money they have made, by providing gainful and productive employment for many? By what grounds do you justify confiscating money from those with proper earned gains? Because they simply have more money then you? That is hardly a moral justification.

If you steal from the rich to give to the poor, you are still a thief (even if you are blanketed in the authority of the government). Just because inequality exists does not logically lead to class warfare by the rich on the poor.

[jstoesz]

I got zinged for that 10 years ago. Closed my account with wells fargo that month, and never looked back.

I say, it is a good lesson for people, and a cheap one at that. If you fail to learn it, well then, that is your fault.

[jstoesz]

[quote=Jacarandoso][quote=flu][quote=Jacarandoso]What exactly is wrong with class warfare FLU? Why should the rich guys go unchecked in their own campaign against the rest of America and the world.

My question about the people protesting is: Where was all their do-gooding when we were bombing the hell out of Iraq? Probably hoping we would get cheaper gas and an economy, maybe a welfare state that was a bit better than what they seem to be facing.[/quote]

because fingerpointing is a political agenda…Everyone was to blame for the financial crisis…Banks wrote shoddy loans…But obviously there was a market for them because people wanted them…

Anyone who wants to rail against wall street probably should come clean and boycott all their dependencies on “wall street products”…no different than if one really is so anti-china, to boycott products from china…Boycott your 401k, IRA, Roth IRA’s, stocks, bonds, derivatives are all a product of Wall Street more or less…And boycott big bank and move to a local one (preferably one that is still solvent)….[/quote]

I agree that there is a lot of sour grapes, hypocrisy and begging going on in all of this. Certainly, it is political. Still, it’s very unreasonable and unfair to expect people to be quiet unless they opt out of the system and cultural aspects of it entirely. Everybody should have a right to argue for their definition of what a just society is.[/quote]

I agree with your assertion. The calls of hypocrisy are not entirely fair. Something advocates should be aware of, but not to the complete negation of their point.

Unless of course you are an anarchist…

[jstoesz]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu]And as I said, how is this NOT class warfare?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/oct/13/occupy-movement-coming-encinitas/

An Encinitas version, called Occupy North County, is scheduled to begin at 1 p.m. Saturday at Encinitas Boulevard and Coast Highway 101. For more information on that event, go to Facebook.com and search for Occupy North County.

The overall movement’s slogan is “We are the 99,” as a reference to the discrepancy of wealth between the top 1 percent of wage earners in the country compared to the rest. The demonstrators are demanding financial reform that deals with rising student loan debt, high unemployment, and tax rates.

…Pssss. Careful sdrealtor…They are coming to get you…..Better not break out the bubblies and sip them fine bottles of wine on the rooftop while you watch the protesters…Otherwise they might paint you as a target….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY%5B/quote%5D

I have a better question. How is THIS not considered class warfare?

“Here are some dramatic facts that sum up how the wealth distribution became even more concentrated between 1983 and 2004, in good part due to the tax cuts for the wealthy and the defeat of labor unions: Of all the new financial wealth created by the American economy in that 21-year-period, fully 42% of it went to the top 1%. A whopping 94% went to the top 20%, which of course means that the bottom 80% received only 6% of all the new financial wealth generated in the United States during the ’80s, ’90s, and early 2000s (Wolff, 2007).

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html%5B/quote%5D

You just quoted a SOCIOLOGY professor from UCSC.

[jstoesz]

Are you assuming I am against all regulations? I and most people are not, that is a common straw.

We need to regulate banks and all industry in a way that ensures the truth is told. That is what regulations are for, to protect us against fraud. If a bank is hiding its bad investments under some phony boloney accounting practices, that should be illegal and every effort of the government should go into eliminating fraud.

But our Government is still in collusion with the banks, because they have not fixed the accounting practices of banks. I like the post from Ritholtz on the Big Picture the other day…

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/10/bankings-self-inflicted-wounds/

Get transparency into our banks.

I would also say, we need to limit the total assets of a single bank to some manageable size, so that there by nature of their size will never be another TBTF issue again.

But these policies are even handed across the board reforms. They are not restricting a banks specific dealings, only applying an across the board ethic to the entire industry. I would even venture to guess that most tea party types would agree with these common sense reforms.

The Frank Dodd bill and the myriad of other “regulations” are about control, not eliminating and illuminating fraud. It gives regulators unlimited power to make crap up as they go along, and it is not good regulation. It is ultimate corruption waiting to happen.

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1]Let’s look at toxic credit, jstoesz.

Why not ban banks from providing automatic overdraft protection. How is that to people’s benefit to be given the “benefit” of charging a $2 cup of coffee while paying a $10 bank fee for the privilege?

The banks should simple decline transactions over the limit. The consumer doesn’t buy the product and is better off.

How it is beneficial to allow banks to charge exorbitant fees while encouraging Americans to get further and further into debt?[/quote]

If people want, they can join a credit union or other entity they feel is non abusive. Why should you have an opinion on the matter?

Question Brian, do you like free checking? That service is paid for by other fees.

Now I am no lover of banks, personally I find them horribly corrupt. The solution is not to regulate their every action, because they will just find a new way to get their money (see BofA and their debit fees). I think we should have let them fail, not continue on in their dishonesty and general screwing over of the American public. The fact that we haven’t fixed the accounting rules yet is simply mind boggling. Bank sheet transparency anyone?

If people do not learn to watch out for those hidden fees when very little is on the line, imagine how stupid they will feel when their ARM blows up…

Woops.

[jstoesz]

Government should be about the rule of law, equal protection under the law, blind justice and all of that. As soon as you start playing social justice, or giving business targeted carve outs, you are picking favored classes, and giving opportunities for a few to game the many. Giving more and more power to the political/regulatory class will just result in more injustice. And soon enough your boys will not be running the show, and your opponents will have all the power you so happily gave up. And on that day, George W. Bush won’t look so bad.

Fix the inputs don’t equalize the outputs.

[jstoesz]

Classic Brian, thanks for the chuckle.

[jstoesz]

[quote=briansd1]

It’s all about human rights and citizens’ rights to express their grievances directly to their governments.[/quote]

I am confused, have these protests been shut down? The various cities seem fairly accommodating to me.
There have been some arrests, but that was for illegal activity/breaking park rules. Some parks/cities have made exceptions for the protesters, and that discretion seems pretty lenient. People are not being arrested for shouting and holding up signs. I would be hauled off if I started building a encampment in the middle of Balboa.

Are you already claiming victim hood?

[jstoesz]

It would be wise to give Egypt a few more years before using them as an example of an effective protest. That country will likely yet turn into a blood bath.

A quote from a Roosevelt admirer, maybe it will chasten you.

“A second danger to President Roosevelt’s valiant and heroic experiments seems to arise from the disposition to hunt down rich men as if they were noxious beasts. It is a very attractive sport, and once it gets started quite a lot of people everywhere are found ready to join in the chase. Moreover, the quarry is at once swift and crafty, and therefore elusive. The pursuit is long and exciting, and everyone’s blood is infected with its ardour. The question arises whether the general well-being of the masses of the community will be advanced by an excessive indulgence in this amusement. The millionaire or multi-millionaire is a highly economic animal. He sucks up with sponge-like efficiency money from all quarters. In this process, far from depriving ordinary people of their earnings, he launches enterprise and carries it through, raises values, and he expands that credit without which on a vast scale no fuller economic life can be opened to the millions. To hunt wealth is not to capture commonwealth.”
Winston Churchill

[jstoesz]

Deleted…

I am not going to poke the bear.

Damn the man!

[jstoesz]

pri…wondered the same thing. I think it was just not in fashion. THe olderplaces often have a proper crawl, but after that everything is a slab. Which is completely horrendous for serviceability. Can you imagine these homes lasting a hundred years?

“better” is hard to define. It is better than mission hills and southpark…the two closest similar neighborhoods in SD. There are a few streets that are similar, but few that are as nice where you could let you kid bike down the street in an city neighborhood and not worry them getting killed by a car.

It is totally subjective, but I lived in s. minneapolis till I went to college and 4 years in SD after I graduated. I love CA, but few neighborhoods are as nice as Tangletown. The closest I have found is the wooded area in Point loma (commerce is far away, but the uncrowded streets are similar) and the those few streets north of birmigham and w of the 5. Now if only I could afford those, then again those areas have the ocean whereas MN…doesn’t. But racing on Minnetonka is pretty hard to beat.

San Diego is sweet, and SD yacht club is sweet, but I am not wealthy. And there in lies the rub!

The yacht club I would join in MN is 500 bucks a year!!!!

[jstoesz]

[quote=sdduuuude]$400K for a very old 1800 sq. ft 3 bed, 1.5 bath home on .13 acres (about a 6,000 sq. ft lot) seems completely unexciting to me. Nice woodwork, but not really any more real-estate for the money than many parts of SD.[/quote]

Until you realize that this is a better neighborhood than mission hills, and there is a 1000 sqft semi finished basement which does not count in the sq footage.

The yard was small, and it was not an entirely good deal. But the architect was quite famous in MN.

If this house were located in a similar neighborhood in SD, it would be 30-40% more, at least in my experience.

Taxes are high, but I guess that is why one moves to Minnetonka or Edina (great old suburbs with cheap taxes and schools that rival Del Mar)

[jstoesz]

Could not have said it better myself.

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