[jficquette]

[quote=Mark Holmes]John, how is this quote by Michelle Obama something that would reflect negatively on Obama:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

It’s very similar to this passage:

“If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize as we have never realized before our interdependence on each other; that we can not merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will bind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife.”

That’s from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s 1st Inaugural Address, his famous “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” speech.

I would argue that speech is much more laden with overt and symbolic religious references.[/quote]

What is interesting about FDR and Obama is Obama is saying similar things that FDR did.

Consider this except/comment from a speech of FDR’s:

Beginning with his inauguration address, Roosevelt began blaming the economic crisis on bankers and financiers, the quest for profit, and the self-interest basis of capitalism:

“ Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence….The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

People are interesting. As long as their stocks go up they don’t even want to know why or how. As soon as they tank they get pissed off and start blaming the crooks on wall street. Yes wall street is crooked but thats ok as long as everyone’s making money.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=Mark Holmes]John, how is this quote by Michelle Obama something that would reflect negatively on Obama:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

It’s very similar to this passage:

“If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize as we have never realized before our interdependence on each other; that we can not merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will bind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife.”

That’s from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s 1st Inaugural Address, his famous “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” speech.

I would argue that speech is much more laden with overt and symbolic religious references.[/quote]

What is interesting about FDR and Obama is Obama is saying similar things that FDR did.

Consider this except/comment from a speech of FDR’s:

Beginning with his inauguration address, Roosevelt began blaming the economic crisis on bankers and financiers, the quest for profit, and the self-interest basis of capitalism:

“ Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence….The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

People are interesting. As long as their stocks go up they don’t even want to know why or how. As soon as they tank they get pissed off and start blaming the crooks on wall street. Yes wall street is crooked but thats ok as long as everyone’s making money.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=Mark Holmes]John, how is this quote by Michelle Obama something that would reflect negatively on Obama:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

It’s very similar to this passage:

“If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize as we have never realized before our interdependence on each other; that we can not merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will bind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife.”

That’s from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s 1st Inaugural Address, his famous “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” speech.

I would argue that speech is much more laden with overt and symbolic religious references.[/quote]

What is interesting about FDR and Obama is Obama is saying similar things that FDR did.

Consider this except/comment from a speech of FDR’s:

Beginning with his inauguration address, Roosevelt began blaming the economic crisis on bankers and financiers, the quest for profit, and the self-interest basis of capitalism:

“ Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence….The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

People are interesting. As long as their stocks go up they don’t even want to know why or how. As soon as they tank they get pissed off and start blaming the crooks on wall street. Yes wall street is crooked but thats ok as long as everyone’s making money.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=Mark Holmes]John, how is this quote by Michelle Obama something that would reflect negatively on Obama:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

It’s very similar to this passage:

“If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize as we have never realized before our interdependence on each other; that we can not merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will bind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife.”

That’s from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s 1st Inaugural Address, his famous “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” speech.

I would argue that speech is much more laden with overt and symbolic religious references.[/quote]

What is interesting about FDR and Obama is Obama is saying similar things that FDR did.

Consider this except/comment from a speech of FDR’s:

Beginning with his inauguration address, Roosevelt began blaming the economic crisis on bankers and financiers, the quest for profit, and the self-interest basis of capitalism:

“ Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence….The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

People are interesting. As long as their stocks go up they don’t even want to know why or how. As soon as they tank they get pissed off and start blaming the crooks on wall street. Yes wall street is crooked but thats ok as long as everyone’s making money.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=Mark Holmes]John, how is this quote by Michelle Obama something that would reflect negatively on Obama:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

It’s very similar to this passage:

“If I read the temper of our people correctly, we now realize as we have never realized before our interdependence on each other; that we can not merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective. We are, I know, ready and willing to submit our lives and property to such discipline, because it makes possible a leadership which aims at a larger good. This I propose to offer, pledging that the larger purposes will bind upon us all as a sacred obligation with a unity of duty hitherto evoked only in time of armed strife.”

That’s from Franklin D. Roosevelt’s 1st Inaugural Address, his famous “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” speech.

I would argue that speech is much more laden with overt and symbolic religious references.[/quote]

What is interesting about FDR and Obama is Obama is saying similar things that FDR did.

Consider this except/comment from a speech of FDR’s:

Beginning with his inauguration address, Roosevelt began blaming the economic crisis on bankers and financiers, the quest for profit, and the self-interest basis of capitalism:

“ Primarily this is because rulers of the exchange of mankind’s goods have failed through their own stubbornness and their own incompetence, have admitted their failure, and have abdicated. Practices of the unscrupulous money changers stand indicted in the court of public opinion, rejected by the hearts and minds of men. True they have tried, but their efforts have been cast in the pattern of an outworn tradition. Faced by failure of credit they have proposed only the lending of more money. Stripped of the lure of profit by which to induce our people to follow their false leadership, they have resorted to exhortations, pleading tearfully for restored confidence….The money changers have fled from their high seats in the temple of our civilization. We may now restore that temple to the ancient truths. The measure of the restoration lies in the extent to which we apply social values more noble than mere monetary profit.

People are interesting. As long as their stocks go up they don’t even want to know why or how. As soon as they tank they get pissed off and start blaming the crooks on wall street. Yes wall street is crooked but thats ok as long as everyone’s making money.

John

[jficquette]

[quote=creechrr][quote=jficquette]

You could ask old Russians who remember Stalin or old Germans who remember Hitler or sons or daughters of those that remember them.

Maybe they could tell you what is like to be lead by someone who feels that the church is the enemy of the state.

John[/quote]

Sounds like you are more concerned about his religious interests more than would like to admit.

Must revisit Rev. Wright…

The man is a Christian. Whatever that means. Like any other group Christians come in many varying flavors. Just as much evil is done in the name of Christ as is done in the name of Mohammed. Pretty much a wash there.[/quote]

So you are not concerned that he claims a divine influence is in operation in his campaign?

Consider this quote from his wife:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

What about all the people who call him the Messiah, “The One”? Do you want to vote with people goofy enough to say that kind of crap??

John

[jficquette]

[quote=creechrr][quote=jficquette]

You could ask old Russians who remember Stalin or old Germans who remember Hitler or sons or daughters of those that remember them.

Maybe they could tell you what is like to be lead by someone who feels that the church is the enemy of the state.

John[/quote]

Sounds like you are more concerned about his religious interests more than would like to admit.

Must revisit Rev. Wright…

The man is a Christian. Whatever that means. Like any other group Christians come in many varying flavors. Just as much evil is done in the name of Christ as is done in the name of Mohammed. Pretty much a wash there.[/quote]

So you are not concerned that he claims a divine influence is in operation in his campaign?

Consider this quote from his wife:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

What about all the people who call him the Messiah, “The One”? Do you want to vote with people goofy enough to say that kind of crap??

John

[jficquette]

[quote=creechrr][quote=jficquette]

You could ask old Russians who remember Stalin or old Germans who remember Hitler or sons or daughters of those that remember them.

Maybe they could tell you what is like to be lead by someone who feels that the church is the enemy of the state.

John[/quote]

Sounds like you are more concerned about his religious interests more than would like to admit.

Must revisit Rev. Wright…

The man is a Christian. Whatever that means. Like any other group Christians come in many varying flavors. Just as much evil is done in the name of Christ as is done in the name of Mohammed. Pretty much a wash there.[/quote]

So you are not concerned that he claims a divine influence is in operation in his campaign?

Consider this quote from his wife:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

What about all the people who call him the Messiah, “The One”? Do you want to vote with people goofy enough to say that kind of crap??

John

[jficquette]

[quote=creechrr][quote=jficquette]

You could ask old Russians who remember Stalin or old Germans who remember Hitler or sons or daughters of those that remember them.

Maybe they could tell you what is like to be lead by someone who feels that the church is the enemy of the state.

John[/quote]

Sounds like you are more concerned about his religious interests more than would like to admit.

Must revisit Rev. Wright…

The man is a Christian. Whatever that means. Like any other group Christians come in many varying flavors. Just as much evil is done in the name of Christ as is done in the name of Mohammed. Pretty much a wash there.[/quote]

So you are not concerned that he claims a divine influence is in operation in his campaign?

Consider this quote from his wife:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

What about all the people who call him the Messiah, “The One”? Do you want to vote with people goofy enough to say that kind of crap??

John

[jficquette]

[quote=creechrr][quote=jficquette]

You could ask old Russians who remember Stalin or old Germans who remember Hitler or sons or daughters of those that remember them.

Maybe they could tell you what is like to be lead by someone who feels that the church is the enemy of the state.

John[/quote]

Sounds like you are more concerned about his religious interests more than would like to admit.

Must revisit Rev. Wright…

The man is a Christian. Whatever that means. Like any other group Christians come in many varying flavors. Just as much evil is done in the name of Christ as is done in the name of Mohammed. Pretty much a wash there.[/quote]

So you are not concerned that he claims a divine influence is in operation in his campaign?

Consider this quote from his wife:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed”.

What about all the people who call him the Messiah, “The One”? Do you want to vote with people goofy enough to say that kind of crap??

John

[jficquette]

[quote=Omega Point][quote]Uh, dude, ever heard of the Civil War?[/quote]

uhhhhhh, duuude… of course I have heard of the Civil War but what is your point? This war wasn’t about taxes and if you were referring to income taxes, yes there were income taxes but they were only temporary and they did nothing to build the U.S. into the largest economy in the world during that century.

High taxes are most often the causes of revolutions or haven’t you heard of the American and French Revolutions.

Anything I “get” from taxes is mostly outweighed by things that are taken away from me by force. Hardly a bargain.

A stable society is ensured by the morals of the people. If people believe they can legally steal from others, you’ll soon not have a functioning society.[/quote]

Good post.

[jficquette]

[quote=Omega Point][quote]Uh, dude, ever heard of the Civil War?[/quote]

uhhhhhh, duuude… of course I have heard of the Civil War but what is your point? This war wasn’t about taxes and if you were referring to income taxes, yes there were income taxes but they were only temporary and they did nothing to build the U.S. into the largest economy in the world during that century.

High taxes are most often the causes of revolutions or haven’t you heard of the American and French Revolutions.

Anything I “get” from taxes is mostly outweighed by things that are taken away from me by force. Hardly a bargain.

A stable society is ensured by the morals of the people. If people believe they can legally steal from others, you’ll soon not have a functioning society.[/quote]

Good post.

[jficquette]

[quote=Omega Point][quote]Uh, dude, ever heard of the Civil War?[/quote]

uhhhhhh, duuude… of course I have heard of the Civil War but what is your point? This war wasn’t about taxes and if you were referring to income taxes, yes there were income taxes but they were only temporary and they did nothing to build the U.S. into the largest economy in the world during that century.

High taxes are most often the causes of revolutions or haven’t you heard of the American and French Revolutions.

Anything I “get” from taxes is mostly outweighed by things that are taken away from me by force. Hardly a bargain.

A stable society is ensured by the morals of the people. If people believe they can legally steal from others, you’ll soon not have a functioning society.[/quote]

Good post.

[jficquette]

[quote=Omega Point][quote]Uh, dude, ever heard of the Civil War?[/quote]

uhhhhhh, duuude… of course I have heard of the Civil War but what is your point? This war wasn’t about taxes and if you were referring to income taxes, yes there were income taxes but they were only temporary and they did nothing to build the U.S. into the largest economy in the world during that century.

High taxes are most often the causes of revolutions or haven’t you heard of the American and French Revolutions.

Anything I “get” from taxes is mostly outweighed by things that are taken away from me by force. Hardly a bargain.

A stable society is ensured by the morals of the people. If people believe they can legally steal from others, you’ll soon not have a functioning society.[/quote]

Good post.

[jficquette]

[quote=Omega Point][quote]Uh, dude, ever heard of the Civil War?[/quote]

uhhhhhh, duuude… of course I have heard of the Civil War but what is your point? This war wasn’t about taxes and if you were referring to income taxes, yes there were income taxes but they were only temporary and they did nothing to build the U.S. into the largest economy in the world during that century.

High taxes are most often the causes of revolutions or haven’t you heard of the American and French Revolutions.

Anything I “get” from taxes is mostly outweighed by things that are taken away from me by force. Hardly a bargain.

A stable society is ensured by the morals of the people. If people believe they can legally steal from others, you’ll soon not have a functioning society.[/quote]

Good post.

[Author]

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