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[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=fredo4]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.[/quote]

First, I would be willing to bet a huge sum of money that not a single person I know personally would describe me as anything approaching a grouch. In fact, I probably have one of the most optimistic dispositions (well, optimistic about my prospects – not necessarily those of others or the world, in general) of anyone I know. I don’t think this type of ad hominem opening bolsters your argument much; in fact, it weakens it.

Second, if most of the people you hang around with have such happy marriages, then how does that jibe with this previous comment of yours: “I’m often in groups of women where all they do is bitch about their husbands- then they look at me like.. well, what do you have to add to the conversation?” Yup, it’s quite clear that the folks you “often” (your word) hang around with are ecstatic regarding their relationships. I’ll leave it to you to reconcile these conflicting comments.

As to the rest… you just keep working on reinforcing your position in your mind. It’s no skin off my back.[/quote]

Defensive, defensive… I was just kidding (sort of) about the grouch part. You have to admit that you don’t exactly sound like a Disney character (wait…I forgot about the Grouchy dwarf in Snow White).
Also, I said that the people that I “choose” to hang around with have happy marriages. But I end up, often around women who bitch too. I generally try to stay around people who are positive.
And they usually seem to have happy marriages.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

[quote=davelj][quote=temeculaguy]It’s almost poetic to see this debate play out, let’s just agree neither of you will convince the other, when it comes to one’s chosen lifestyle, I think we all land where we want/should be. [/quote]

I agree with many of your comments, but not this one. I think most people land where SOCIETY wants them to be because the pressure to conform is immense, especially as we are social creatures. Some people, however, figure this out and self-correct at some point. Most people, however, are so busy juggling the various responsibilities and obligations in their lives (doing what they’re “supposed” to be doing according to society) that they never take the time to sit down and figure out exactly what’s going to make them truly content (and, vice versa, what’s going to make them miserable). Which is why so many folks are unsatisfied with their lot in life.

[quote=temeculaguy]With regards to gramps advice, in all three cases, leasing or borrowing are better options than rentals. All three have potential safety risks, the rentals can be overly used and poorly maintained.[/quote]

Gramps lumped renting, leasing and borrowing into “rent it.” It makes the phrasing catchier. The point was not to own these things.[/quote]

Dave you are such a grouch. I don’t know who you hang around, but most of the people that I choose to spend time with have pretty happy marriages.
They’re not married because it’s what society expects. Many of them are the products of baby boomers and have seen how chaotic their parents “unconventional” lives turned out. Others came from happy homes (mom and dad happily married) and wanted the same thing.
I don’t see that the pressure to marry is so great– there are so many options now. Look at the illegitimacy rates.

[fredo4]

Everything has been verbal. We’ve asked several times for a lease contract but haven’t gotten it yet. But so far he hasn’t asked for any kind of security deposit either. So there seem to be pluses and minuses to the situation.

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