[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=patientrenter]FormerSanDiegan, if removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities (and I agree), then why shouldn’t we target getting that completed, and get a schedule with an end date, and make sure that each step we take is in the direction of the ultimate target, and not some other direction? That is a rational response.
[/quote]

Excellent points. It is a concept worth considering. In order to map out how to get to point B we should consider how we got to point A in the first place, and how it operates under current law.

Part 1 – How we got here

Under Reagan in ~1986 many tax loopholes were closed (in conjunction with lowering tax rates across the board). This included eliminating interest deductions for many forms of interest. Mortgage interest was allowed to remain deductible. Prior to this change ALL forms of interest were deductible against income,including credit card interest, auto payments, whatever. This interest deduction has been present in the US Tax code since at least 1913.

So, the Government did not explicitly place the mortgage interest deduction into the code as a subsidy to homeowners. No sure this matters but at least now we know the history.

So, we could take the Reagan idea one step further and eliminate mortgage interest deduction. Perhaps at the same time lowering overall rates, so that those who would have been subsidizing see their savings.

Seems reasonable, right ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=patientrenter]FormerSanDiegan, if removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities (and I agree), then why shouldn’t we target getting that completed, and get a schedule with an end date, and make sure that each step we take is in the direction of the ultimate target, and not some other direction? That is a rational response.
[/quote]

Excellent points. It is a concept worth considering. In order to map out how to get to point B we should consider how we got to point A in the first place, and how it operates under current law.

Part 1 – How we got here

Under Reagan in ~1986 many tax loopholes were closed (in conjunction with lowering tax rates across the board). This included eliminating interest deductions for many forms of interest. Mortgage interest was allowed to remain deductible. Prior to this change ALL forms of interest were deductible against income,including credit card interest, auto payments, whatever. This interest deduction has been present in the US Tax code since at least 1913.

So, the Government did not explicitly place the mortgage interest deduction into the code as a subsidy to homeowners. No sure this matters but at least now we know the history.

So, we could take the Reagan idea one step further and eliminate mortgage interest deduction. Perhaps at the same time lowering overall rates, so that those who would have been subsidizing see their savings.

Seems reasonable, right ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=CalFord]

And to the rest of you clowns, facts speak for themselves. Take YOUR time to acquire the records and do the research, this is YOUR JOB. At my billing rates I do not have the time to render endless published articles on the subject. You are given the basic facts, now get off your asses and do your due diligence.

[/quote]

So, let me get this straight. It is our job to bring data to support the point you were making because you think you bill out at a higher rate ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=CalFord]

And to the rest of you clowns, facts speak for themselves. Take YOUR time to acquire the records and do the research, this is YOUR JOB. At my billing rates I do not have the time to render endless published articles on the subject. You are given the basic facts, now get off your asses and do your due diligence.

[/quote]

So, let me get this straight. It is our job to bring data to support the point you were making because you think you bill out at a higher rate ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=CalFord]

And to the rest of you clowns, facts speak for themselves. Take YOUR time to acquire the records and do the research, this is YOUR JOB. At my billing rates I do not have the time to render endless published articles on the subject. You are given the basic facts, now get off your asses and do your due diligence.

[/quote]

So, let me get this straight. It is our job to bring data to support the point you were making because you think you bill out at a higher rate ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=CalFord]

And to the rest of you clowns, facts speak for themselves. Take YOUR time to acquire the records and do the research, this is YOUR JOB. At my billing rates I do not have the time to render endless published articles on the subject. You are given the basic facts, now get off your asses and do your due diligence.

[/quote]

So, let me get this straight. It is our job to bring data to support the point you were making because you think you bill out at a higher rate ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=CalFord]

And to the rest of you clowns, facts speak for themselves. Take YOUR time to acquire the records and do the research, this is YOUR JOB. At my billing rates I do not have the time to render endless published articles on the subject. You are given the basic facts, now get off your asses and do your due diligence.

[/quote]

So, let me get this straight. It is our job to bring data to support the point you were making because you think you bill out at a higher rate ?

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

In an ideal world, removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities. However, given the point we are in time and the history of such subsidies, immediate removal of these subsidies would do the opposite by deepening the current recession. So, that is not a pragmatic solution.

P.S. – In this world and on this site we are free to express our thoughts and opinions. I’ve learned a lot from others by taking their comments and ideas and considering their point of view. I may technically be a MF, since I am married and have children. However, I assure you I am not a Marxist slumlord, as by definition a slumlord cannot be a true Marxist. It is an oxymoron.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

In an ideal world, removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities. However, given the point we are in time and the history of such subsidies, immediate removal of these subsidies would do the opposite by deepening the current recession. So, that is not a pragmatic solution.

P.S. – In this world and on this site we are free to express our thoughts and opinions. I’ve learned a lot from others by taking their comments and ideas and considering their point of view. I may technically be a MF, since I am married and have children. However, I assure you I am not a Marxist slumlord, as by definition a slumlord cannot be a true Marxist. It is an oxymoron.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

In an ideal world, removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities. However, given the point we are in time and the history of such subsidies, immediate removal of these subsidies would do the opposite by deepening the current recession. So, that is not a pragmatic solution.

P.S. – In this world and on this site we are free to express our thoughts and opinions. I’ve learned a lot from others by taking their comments and ideas and considering their point of view. I may technically be a MF, since I am married and have children. However, I assure you I am not a Marxist slumlord, as by definition a slumlord cannot be a true Marxist. It is an oxymoron.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

In an ideal world, removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities. However, given the point we are in time and the history of such subsidies, immediate removal of these subsidies would do the opposite by deepening the current recession. So, that is not a pragmatic solution.

P.S. – In this world and on this site we are free to express our thoughts and opinions. I’ve learned a lot from others by taking their comments and ideas and considering their point of view. I may technically be a MF, since I am married and have children. However, I assure you I am not a Marxist slumlord, as by definition a slumlord cannot be a true Marxist. It is an oxymoron.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

In an ideal world, removing housing subsidies would likely reallocate capital to more productive activities. However, given the point we are in time and the history of such subsidies, immediate removal of these subsidies would do the opposite by deepening the current recession. So, that is not a pragmatic solution.

P.S. – In this world and on this site we are free to express our thoughts and opinions. I’ve learned a lot from others by taking their comments and ideas and considering their point of view. I may technically be a MF, since I am married and have children. However, I assure you I am not a Marxist slumlord, as by definition a slumlord cannot be a true Marxist. It is an oxymoron.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=TheBreeze]And not only is the government subsidizing housing for rich a-holes, they are allowing banks to keep their REOs off the market. According the Mr. Mortgage, banks are hoarding 2/3rds of their REOs:

Additionally, they also forget about ’shadow inventory’ in the form of REO that is not listed. Realty Trac said in a recent story that they show that only about a third of all REO is listed and trackable as inventory. The rest is sitting rotting at the banks/servicers.

http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/

So now those of us looking to buy a house get screwed two ways: Government subsidies have pushed up the price of housing and the government is allowing banks to keep a large chunk of housing inventory off the market which further drives up housing costs.

F***! F***! F***! I’m tired of getting shafted by the government.

I hope all that shadow REO inventory hits the market soon and breaks all the ‘mom and pops’. You probably see the ‘mom and pops’ as some type of American hero. I just see them as slumlords who are basically equivalent to a welfare queen in my mind as they both suck off the government teat.

I’m surprised to see so many Piggs in favor of all this government housing assistance. I thought most of you guys were in favor of capitalism. Instead, most of you are more socialist than Marx. [/quote]

The combination of low mortgage rates and decline in prices has brought housing in San Diego to an afforability level seen in maybe 4 years out of the last 30. (as of last fall). At some point this year as a result of the REOs in the pipeline, assuming rates hover in the 5.5% range San Diego will likely be at levels of affordability (monthly payment relative to income for 30-year fixed) not seen in over 30 years …

… and you are still focused on how “those of us looking to buy a house get screwed two ways.”

To some people the glass is half full, others keep asking for a bigger glass and complain that it’s more than half empty.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=TheBreeze]And not only is the government subsidizing housing for rich a-holes, they are allowing banks to keep their REOs off the market. According the Mr. Mortgage, banks are hoarding 2/3rds of their REOs:

Additionally, they also forget about ’shadow inventory’ in the form of REO that is not listed. Realty Trac said in a recent story that they show that only about a third of all REO is listed and trackable as inventory. The rest is sitting rotting at the banks/servicers.

http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/

So now those of us looking to buy a house get screwed two ways: Government subsidies have pushed up the price of housing and the government is allowing banks to keep a large chunk of housing inventory off the market which further drives up housing costs.

F***! F***! F***! I’m tired of getting shafted by the government.

I hope all that shadow REO inventory hits the market soon and breaks all the ‘mom and pops’. You probably see the ‘mom and pops’ as some type of American hero. I just see them as slumlords who are basically equivalent to a welfare queen in my mind as they both suck off the government teat.

I’m surprised to see so many Piggs in favor of all this government housing assistance. I thought most of you guys were in favor of capitalism. Instead, most of you are more socialist than Marx. [/quote]

The combination of low mortgage rates and decline in prices has brought housing in San Diego to an afforability level seen in maybe 4 years out of the last 30. (as of last fall). At some point this year as a result of the REOs in the pipeline, assuming rates hover in the 5.5% range San Diego will likely be at levels of affordability (monthly payment relative to income for 30-year fixed) not seen in over 30 years …

… and you are still focused on how “those of us looking to buy a house get screwed two ways.”

To some people the glass is half full, others keep asking for a bigger glass and complain that it’s more than half empty.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=TheBreeze]And not only is the government subsidizing housing for rich a-holes, they are allowing banks to keep their REOs off the market. According the Mr. Mortgage, banks are hoarding 2/3rds of their REOs:

Additionally, they also forget about ’shadow inventory’ in the form of REO that is not listed. Realty Trac said in a recent story that they show that only about a third of all REO is listed and trackable as inventory. The rest is sitting rotting at the banks/servicers.

http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/

So now those of us looking to buy a house get screwed two ways: Government subsidies have pushed up the price of housing and the government is allowing banks to keep a large chunk of housing inventory off the market which further drives up housing costs.

F***! F***! F***! I’m tired of getting shafted by the government.

I hope all that shadow REO inventory hits the market soon and breaks all the ‘mom and pops’. You probably see the ‘mom and pops’ as some type of American hero. I just see them as slumlords who are basically equivalent to a welfare queen in my mind as they both suck off the government teat.

I’m surprised to see so many Piggs in favor of all this government housing assistance. I thought most of you guys were in favor of capitalism. Instead, most of you are more socialist than Marx. [/quote]

The combination of low mortgage rates and decline in prices has brought housing in San Diego to an afforability level seen in maybe 4 years out of the last 30. (as of last fall). At some point this year as a result of the REOs in the pipeline, assuming rates hover in the 5.5% range San Diego will likely be at levels of affordability (monthly payment relative to income for 30-year fixed) not seen in over 30 years …

… and you are still focused on how “those of us looking to buy a house get screwed two ways.”

To some people the glass is half full, others keep asking for a bigger glass and complain that it’s more than half empty.

[Author]

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