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[quote=sd_matt][quote=Arraya]It’s no subsidy to the people for being tricked into buying increasingly over priced homes. It’s a crime against American people.

This is a last ditch desperate attempt to keep the whole banking system alive. Which will invariably fail.

FHA is practically giving subprime loans again. With an ever deteriorating real economy. Eventually, they will run out of buyers.[/quote]

Or maybe fence sitters will wait for ever bigger tax credits.

I still don’t quite understand the math in the article. Can someone here put it in laymans terms?[/quote]
Overly simplified: the subsidy of 1 million people at $15K should amount to $15K per house. However, only 20-30% are the additional buyers from the subsidy, not 100%; therefore, take $15B/(20-30%*1M)= 50K-75K, as the cost for each extra home bought with your subsidy money. Trick would be to give subsidy to only people who wouldn’t dream of buying without subsidy, but can’t really be done.

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[quote=Wickedheart]Kelly Bennett saw your message:
http://tinyurl.com/yfttegg%5B/quote%5D
Yahoo had Kelly’s link for a minute on front page in local news section.

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[quote=Wickedheart]Kelly Bennett saw your message:
http://tinyurl.com/yfttegg%5B/quote%5D
Yahoo had Kelly’s link for a minute on front page in local news section.

[equalizer]

[quote=Wickedheart]Kelly Bennett saw your message:
http://tinyurl.com/yfttegg%5B/quote%5D
Yahoo had Kelly’s link for a minute on front page in local news section.

[equalizer]

[quote=Wickedheart]Kelly Bennett saw your message:
http://tinyurl.com/yfttegg%5B/quote%5D
Yahoo had Kelly’s link for a minute on front page in local news section.

[equalizer]

[quote=Wickedheart]Kelly Bennett saw your message:
http://tinyurl.com/yfttegg%5B/quote%5D
Yahoo had Kelly’s link for a minute on front page in local news section.

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Stop the madness. Time, via TBP:

“Tens of thousands of people may have taken advantage of the first-time home buyer tax credit to defraud the government, an IRS watchdog office said Thursday, in testimony that could jeopardize efforts to extend the popular program.

Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration J. Russell George told a House panel that more than 19,000 people filed 2008 tax returns claiming the credit for homes they had not yet purchased. Russell said his office had identified another $500 million in claims, by some 74,000 taxpayers, where there were indications of prior home ownership.

He told a House Ways and Means oversight subcommittee that they also found 580 taxpayers under the age of 18 who claimed $4 million in first-time home buyer credit. One was 4 years old.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/10/fun-with-the-homebuyer-tax-credit/

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Stop the madness. Time, via TBP:

“Tens of thousands of people may have taken advantage of the first-time home buyer tax credit to defraud the government, an IRS watchdog office said Thursday, in testimony that could jeopardize efforts to extend the popular program.

Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration J. Russell George told a House panel that more than 19,000 people filed 2008 tax returns claiming the credit for homes they had not yet purchased. Russell said his office had identified another $500 million in claims, by some 74,000 taxpayers, where there were indications of prior home ownership.

He told a House Ways and Means oversight subcommittee that they also found 580 taxpayers under the age of 18 who claimed $4 million in first-time home buyer credit. One was 4 years old.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/10/fun-with-the-homebuyer-tax-credit/

[equalizer]

Stop the madness. Time, via TBP:

“Tens of thousands of people may have taken advantage of the first-time home buyer tax credit to defraud the government, an IRS watchdog office said Thursday, in testimony that could jeopardize efforts to extend the popular program.

Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration J. Russell George told a House panel that more than 19,000 people filed 2008 tax returns claiming the credit for homes they had not yet purchased. Russell said his office had identified another $500 million in claims, by some 74,000 taxpayers, where there were indications of prior home ownership.

He told a House Ways and Means oversight subcommittee that they also found 580 taxpayers under the age of 18 who claimed $4 million in first-time home buyer credit. One was 4 years old.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/10/fun-with-the-homebuyer-tax-credit/

[equalizer]

Stop the madness. Time, via TBP:

“Tens of thousands of people may have taken advantage of the first-time home buyer tax credit to defraud the government, an IRS watchdog office said Thursday, in testimony that could jeopardize efforts to extend the popular program.

Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration J. Russell George told a House panel that more than 19,000 people filed 2008 tax returns claiming the credit for homes they had not yet purchased. Russell said his office had identified another $500 million in claims, by some 74,000 taxpayers, where there were indications of prior home ownership.

He told a House Ways and Means oversight subcommittee that they also found 580 taxpayers under the age of 18 who claimed $4 million in first-time home buyer credit. One was 4 years old.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/10/fun-with-the-homebuyer-tax-credit/

[equalizer]

Stop the madness. Time, via TBP:

“Tens of thousands of people may have taken advantage of the first-time home buyer tax credit to defraud the government, an IRS watchdog office said Thursday, in testimony that could jeopardize efforts to extend the popular program.

Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration J. Russell George told a House panel that more than 19,000 people filed 2008 tax returns claiming the credit for homes they had not yet purchased. Russell said his office had identified another $500 million in claims, by some 74,000 taxpayers, where there were indications of prior home ownership.

He told a House Ways and Means oversight subcommittee that they also found 580 taxpayers under the age of 18 who claimed $4 million in first-time home buyer credit. One was 4 years old.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/10/fun-with-the-homebuyer-tax-credit/

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[quote=Nicole]Hi SD_matt,

Thanks for asking my opinion. I only had a chance to skim the first and last couple pages of the article (late day at work…) I agree that this article is well written and presents some interesting arguments, but my brief skimming of the article he seemed to be suggest a free market philosophy to drive healthcare costs down. He also seemed to suggest that people should pay for their preventative care like we pay for gas in our car. I don’t see our healthcare choices like other consumer choices. Most people agree that the best care is obtained when you stick with one provider (the concept of a “medical home”) the quality of your care will likely go down if you go shopping around every time you have a new healthcare need. Also expecting people without resources to pay for preventative is just never going to happen and they’ll still end up in the ER with illnesses that have progressed.

Sorry, I didn’t have time to comment on the many of the other points, but I figured better to keep it short anyway…[/quote]
Thanks for reading Allan, Matt, Nicole. If the byzantine payment structure is removed, more money will be spent on actual health care healers instead of office works slaving over billing.

There’s nothing in the article that precludes clinics financed in part by the county. Behaviorial economists (Thaler, “Nudge”; Dan Ariely, “Predictably Irrational”) have documented your concerns about people ignoring future needs in favor of present desires. I would not be opposed to fat tax to finance clinics. I think I’m personally responsible on demand side for sugar prices tripling in last 10 years. Sin taxes work wonders on consumption. Witness the CA beer lobby stopping new beer taxes in 09 and thus moving tax increases to car tax and general sales tax.

The population in USA has increased 30% in last 27 years and number of medical school graduates is still only 16K per year. The AMA certainly had something to do with that in 1979 with their dire warning of physician oversupply that has nearly stopped all additional enrollment. It is difficult to believe that with 30% more population that all those people are as lazy as me and couldn’t pass the muster. As for the expense, why wouldn’t the HMO’s be interested in funding these additional residencies?

Allan is right, I better shut my mouth. I already have the accounting industry after me because I dared suggest that we reallocate 2M people from worthless tax industry to financial planning, health care, etc. Then the defense industry (and most Congress members) are after me and Sec Gates because we dared speak up about worthless projects. Do I really want the health industry complex after me? Do I want to jeopardize my only decent investment VGHCX?

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/charts1982to2007.pdf

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[quote=Nicole]Hi SD_matt,

Thanks for asking my opinion. I only had a chance to skim the first and last couple pages of the article (late day at work…) I agree that this article is well written and presents some interesting arguments, but my brief skimming of the article he seemed to be suggest a free market philosophy to drive healthcare costs down. He also seemed to suggest that people should pay for their preventative care like we pay for gas in our car. I don’t see our healthcare choices like other consumer choices. Most people agree that the best care is obtained when you stick with one provider (the concept of a “medical home”) the quality of your care will likely go down if you go shopping around every time you have a new healthcare need. Also expecting people without resources to pay for preventative is just never going to happen and they’ll still end up in the ER with illnesses that have progressed.

Sorry, I didn’t have time to comment on the many of the other points, but I figured better to keep it short anyway…[/quote]
Thanks for reading Allan, Matt, Nicole. If the byzantine payment structure is removed, more money will be spent on actual health care healers instead of office works slaving over billing.

There’s nothing in the article that precludes clinics financed in part by the county. Behaviorial economists (Thaler, “Nudge”; Dan Ariely, “Predictably Irrational”) have documented your concerns about people ignoring future needs in favor of present desires. I would not be opposed to fat tax to finance clinics. I think I’m personally responsible on demand side for sugar prices tripling in last 10 years. Sin taxes work wonders on consumption. Witness the CA beer lobby stopping new beer taxes in 09 and thus moving tax increases to car tax and general sales tax.

The population in USA has increased 30% in last 27 years and number of medical school graduates is still only 16K per year. The AMA certainly had something to do with that in 1979 with their dire warning of physician oversupply that has nearly stopped all additional enrollment. It is difficult to believe that with 30% more population that all those people are as lazy as me and couldn’t pass the muster. As for the expense, why wouldn’t the HMO’s be interested in funding these additional residencies?

Allan is right, I better shut my mouth. I already have the accounting industry after me because I dared suggest that we reallocate 2M people from worthless tax industry to financial planning, health care, etc. Then the defense industry (and most Congress members) are after me and Sec Gates because we dared speak up about worthless projects. Do I really want the health industry complex after me? Do I want to jeopardize my only decent investment VGHCX?

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/charts1982to2007.pdf

[equalizer]

[quote=Nicole]Hi SD_matt,

Thanks for asking my opinion. I only had a chance to skim the first and last couple pages of the article (late day at work…) I agree that this article is well written and presents some interesting arguments, but my brief skimming of the article he seemed to be suggest a free market philosophy to drive healthcare costs down. He also seemed to suggest that people should pay for their preventative care like we pay for gas in our car. I don’t see our healthcare choices like other consumer choices. Most people agree that the best care is obtained when you stick with one provider (the concept of a “medical home”) the quality of your care will likely go down if you go shopping around every time you have a new healthcare need. Also expecting people without resources to pay for preventative is just never going to happen and they’ll still end up in the ER with illnesses that have progressed.

Sorry, I didn’t have time to comment on the many of the other points, but I figured better to keep it short anyway…[/quote]
Thanks for reading Allan, Matt, Nicole. If the byzantine payment structure is removed, more money will be spent on actual health care healers instead of office works slaving over billing.

There’s nothing in the article that precludes clinics financed in part by the county. Behaviorial economists (Thaler, “Nudge”; Dan Ariely, “Predictably Irrational”) have documented your concerns about people ignoring future needs in favor of present desires. I would not be opposed to fat tax to finance clinics. I think I’m personally responsible on demand side for sugar prices tripling in last 10 years. Sin taxes work wonders on consumption. Witness the CA beer lobby stopping new beer taxes in 09 and thus moving tax increases to car tax and general sales tax.

The population in USA has increased 30% in last 27 years and number of medical school graduates is still only 16K per year. The AMA certainly had something to do with that in 1979 with their dire warning of physician oversupply that has nearly stopped all additional enrollment. It is difficult to believe that with 30% more population that all those people are as lazy as me and couldn’t pass the muster. As for the expense, why wouldn’t the HMO’s be interested in funding these additional residencies?

Allan is right, I better shut my mouth. I already have the accounting industry after me because I dared suggest that we reallocate 2M people from worthless tax industry to financial planning, health care, etc. Then the defense industry (and most Congress members) are after me and Sec Gates because we dared speak up about worthless projects. Do I really want the health industry complex after me? Do I want to jeopardize my only decent investment VGHCX?

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/charts1982to2007.pdf

[equalizer]

[quote=Nicole]Hi SD_matt,

Thanks for asking my opinion. I only had a chance to skim the first and last couple pages of the article (late day at work…) I agree that this article is well written and presents some interesting arguments, but my brief skimming of the article he seemed to be suggest a free market philosophy to drive healthcare costs down. He also seemed to suggest that people should pay for their preventative care like we pay for gas in our car. I don’t see our healthcare choices like other consumer choices. Most people agree that the best care is obtained when you stick with one provider (the concept of a “medical home”) the quality of your care will likely go down if you go shopping around every time you have a new healthcare need. Also expecting people without resources to pay for preventative is just never going to happen and they’ll still end up in the ER with illnesses that have progressed.

Sorry, I didn’t have time to comment on the many of the other points, but I figured better to keep it short anyway…[/quote]
Thanks for reading Allan, Matt, Nicole. If the byzantine payment structure is removed, more money will be spent on actual health care healers instead of office works slaving over billing.

There’s nothing in the article that precludes clinics financed in part by the county. Behaviorial economists (Thaler, “Nudge”; Dan Ariely, “Predictably Irrational”) have documented your concerns about people ignoring future needs in favor of present desires. I would not be opposed to fat tax to finance clinics. I think I’m personally responsible on demand side for sugar prices tripling in last 10 years. Sin taxes work wonders on consumption. Witness the CA beer lobby stopping new beer taxes in 09 and thus moving tax increases to car tax and general sales tax.

The population in USA has increased 30% in last 27 years and number of medical school graduates is still only 16K per year. The AMA certainly had something to do with that in 1979 with their dire warning of physician oversupply that has nearly stopped all additional enrollment. It is difficult to believe that with 30% more population that all those people are as lazy as me and couldn’t pass the muster. As for the expense, why wouldn’t the HMO’s be interested in funding these additional residencies?

Allan is right, I better shut my mouth. I already have the accounting industry after me because I dared suggest that we reallocate 2M people from worthless tax industry to financial planning, health care, etc. Then the defense industry (and most Congress members) are after me and Sec Gates because we dared speak up about worthless projects. Do I really want the health industry complex after me? Do I want to jeopardize my only decent investment VGHCX?

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/charts1982to2007.pdf

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