[eavesdropper]

[quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – nice Star Trek exchange!

I wish you wouldn’t have picked Palin as an example. I agree w/the example, but I can see this turning to politics. I hope not. I got the point, which was anosognosia.[/quote]

I did agonize over that decision, jpinpb. However, the only case of disability-level anosognosia I could think of that was even more glaring was my brother-in-law, and, being unknown to Piggs, he would not have been an educational example. I do hope that it doesn’t turn into a political flame-war, because the topic is a worthy one.

BTW, davelj, thanks for posting the link to the article.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=jpinpb]eavesdropper – nice Star Trek exchange!

I wish you wouldn’t have picked Palin as an example. I agree w/the example, but I can see this turning to politics. I hope not. I got the point, which was anosognosia.[/quote]

I did agonize over that decision, jpinpb. However, the only case of disability-level anosognosia I could think of that was even more glaring was my brother-in-law, and, being unknown to Piggs, he would not have been an educational example. I do hope that it doesn’t turn into a political flame-war, because the topic is a worthy one.

BTW, davelj, thanks for posting the link to the article.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=davelj]Taleb’s primary thesis is that as humans we systematically underestimate the frequency and importance of random events; that is, we underestimate the role of luck (randomness) in our lives.[/quote]

Reminds me of one of my favorite StarTrek exchanges (from the original series):
Spock: “Random chance seems to have operated in our favor”.
McCoy: “In plain, non-Vulcan English: We’ve been lucky.”
Spock: “I believe I said that, Doctor”.

[quote=davelj] This article, among other things, addresses the fact that humans systematically overestimate their understanding of all sorts of things. One of the themes that’s discussed is one I’ve mentioned here at the Pigg many times: What you know is not nearly as important as knowing/acknowledging what you don’t know. As humans we’re all bad at this to varying degrees. [/quote]

Spot-on, davelj. I’ve advised students many times over to ask questions, and pointed out that the only way to get to know something that you don’t already know is to ask questions. Without questions, there is no learning; without learning, there is no knowledge. Sounds ridiculously simplistic, like one of those “inspirational” posters that they sell at office supply stores. But it’s mind-boggling how many people, in all age groups, will not ask questions. Is it that they’re too embarrassed to ask, or that they simply lack intellectual curiosity?

However, several years back, I became aware of the phenomenon of “not knowing what you don’t know”, and shortly thereafter, realized that there are many people who will not acknowledge that there may be things that they do not know, including things that are essential to doing their jobs. The most glaring recent example that comes to mind – and I am NOT hijacking the thread – is Sarah Palin. Despite the fact that her experience included 6 years as mayor of a town of less than 6000 people in a relatively isolated state, and 18 months as that state’s governor, she insists that she never hesitated about accepting McCain’s offer. Since that time, she appears to have made no effort to fill the gaps that exist in her base of knowledge – indeed, she doesn’t seem to acknowledge to herself that any such gaps exist. Given the seriousness with which she gave (and repeatedly defended) answers such as “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” to reporters expressing doubts about her foreign policy knowledge and experience, it would certainly appear that Ms. Palin is afflicted with anosognosia as described in the article.

Again, in mentioning Ms. Palin, I’m not attempting to sway the direction of this thread to one that is political. I think the subject matter of the NYT article is strong enough to stand on its own, and hope that other Piggs will weigh in with their thoughts and opinions on it. I’ve come across many people employed in positions who not only aren’t in possession of the skills and knowledge to perform the duties required by the job, but are entirely unaware that such gaps exist. It’s almost as though they believe “having” the job constitutes “doing” the job. It’s scary.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=davelj]Taleb’s primary thesis is that as humans we systematically underestimate the frequency and importance of random events; that is, we underestimate the role of luck (randomness) in our lives.[/quote]

Reminds me of one of my favorite StarTrek exchanges (from the original series):
Spock: “Random chance seems to have operated in our favor”.
McCoy: “In plain, non-Vulcan English: We’ve been lucky.”
Spock: “I believe I said that, Doctor”.

[quote=davelj] This article, among other things, addresses the fact that humans systematically overestimate their understanding of all sorts of things. One of the themes that’s discussed is one I’ve mentioned here at the Pigg many times: What you know is not nearly as important as knowing/acknowledging what you don’t know. As humans we’re all bad at this to varying degrees. [/quote]

Spot-on, davelj. I’ve advised students many times over to ask questions, and pointed out that the only way to get to know something that you don’t already know is to ask questions. Without questions, there is no learning; without learning, there is no knowledge. Sounds ridiculously simplistic, like one of those “inspirational” posters that they sell at office supply stores. But it’s mind-boggling how many people, in all age groups, will not ask questions. Is it that they’re too embarrassed to ask, or that they simply lack intellectual curiosity?

However, several years back, I became aware of the phenomenon of “not knowing what you don’t know”, and shortly thereafter, realized that there are many people who will not acknowledge that there may be things that they do not know, including things that are essential to doing their jobs. The most glaring recent example that comes to mind – and I am NOT hijacking the thread – is Sarah Palin. Despite the fact that her experience included 6 years as mayor of a town of less than 6000 people in a relatively isolated state, and 18 months as that state’s governor, she insists that she never hesitated about accepting McCain’s offer. Since that time, she appears to have made no effort to fill the gaps that exist in her base of knowledge – indeed, she doesn’t seem to acknowledge to herself that any such gaps exist. Given the seriousness with which she gave (and repeatedly defended) answers such as “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” to reporters expressing doubts about her foreign policy knowledge and experience, it would certainly appear that Ms. Palin is afflicted with anosognosia as described in the article.

Again, in mentioning Ms. Palin, I’m not attempting to sway the direction of this thread to one that is political. I think the subject matter of the NYT article is strong enough to stand on its own, and hope that other Piggs will weigh in with their thoughts and opinions on it. I’ve come across many people employed in positions who not only aren’t in possession of the skills and knowledge to perform the duties required by the job, but are entirely unaware that such gaps exist. It’s almost as though they believe “having” the job constitutes “doing” the job. It’s scary.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=davelj]Taleb’s primary thesis is that as humans we systematically underestimate the frequency and importance of random events; that is, we underestimate the role of luck (randomness) in our lives.[/quote]

Reminds me of one of my favorite StarTrek exchanges (from the original series):
Spock: “Random chance seems to have operated in our favor”.
McCoy: “In plain, non-Vulcan English: We’ve been lucky.”
Spock: “I believe I said that, Doctor”.

[quote=davelj] This article, among other things, addresses the fact that humans systematically overestimate their understanding of all sorts of things. One of the themes that’s discussed is one I’ve mentioned here at the Pigg many times: What you know is not nearly as important as knowing/acknowledging what you don’t know. As humans we’re all bad at this to varying degrees. [/quote]

Spot-on, davelj. I’ve advised students many times over to ask questions, and pointed out that the only way to get to know something that you don’t already know is to ask questions. Without questions, there is no learning; without learning, there is no knowledge. Sounds ridiculously simplistic, like one of those “inspirational” posters that they sell at office supply stores. But it’s mind-boggling how many people, in all age groups, will not ask questions. Is it that they’re too embarrassed to ask, or that they simply lack intellectual curiosity?

However, several years back, I became aware of the phenomenon of “not knowing what you don’t know”, and shortly thereafter, realized that there are many people who will not acknowledge that there may be things that they do not know, including things that are essential to doing their jobs. The most glaring recent example that comes to mind – and I am NOT hijacking the thread – is Sarah Palin. Despite the fact that her experience included 6 years as mayor of a town of less than 6000 people in a relatively isolated state, and 18 months as that state’s governor, she insists that she never hesitated about accepting McCain’s offer. Since that time, she appears to have made no effort to fill the gaps that exist in her base of knowledge – indeed, she doesn’t seem to acknowledge to herself that any such gaps exist. Given the seriousness with which she gave (and repeatedly defended) answers such as “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” to reporters expressing doubts about her foreign policy knowledge and experience, it would certainly appear that Ms. Palin is afflicted with anosognosia as described in the article.

Again, in mentioning Ms. Palin, I’m not attempting to sway the direction of this thread to one that is political. I think the subject matter of the NYT article is strong enough to stand on its own, and hope that other Piggs will weigh in with their thoughts and opinions on it. I’ve come across many people employed in positions who not only aren’t in possession of the skills and knowledge to perform the duties required by the job, but are entirely unaware that such gaps exist. It’s almost as though they believe “having” the job constitutes “doing” the job. It’s scary.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=davelj]Taleb’s primary thesis is that as humans we systematically underestimate the frequency and importance of random events; that is, we underestimate the role of luck (randomness) in our lives.[/quote]

Reminds me of one of my favorite StarTrek exchanges (from the original series):
Spock: “Random chance seems to have operated in our favor”.
McCoy: “In plain, non-Vulcan English: We’ve been lucky.”
Spock: “I believe I said that, Doctor”.

[quote=davelj] This article, among other things, addresses the fact that humans systematically overestimate their understanding of all sorts of things. One of the themes that’s discussed is one I’ve mentioned here at the Pigg many times: What you know is not nearly as important as knowing/acknowledging what you don’t know. As humans we’re all bad at this to varying degrees. [/quote]

Spot-on, davelj. I’ve advised students many times over to ask questions, and pointed out that the only way to get to know something that you don’t already know is to ask questions. Without questions, there is no learning; without learning, there is no knowledge. Sounds ridiculously simplistic, like one of those “inspirational” posters that they sell at office supply stores. But it’s mind-boggling how many people, in all age groups, will not ask questions. Is it that they’re too embarrassed to ask, or that they simply lack intellectual curiosity?

However, several years back, I became aware of the phenomenon of “not knowing what you don’t know”, and shortly thereafter, realized that there are many people who will not acknowledge that there may be things that they do not know, including things that are essential to doing their jobs. The most glaring recent example that comes to mind – and I am NOT hijacking the thread – is Sarah Palin. Despite the fact that her experience included 6 years as mayor of a town of less than 6000 people in a relatively isolated state, and 18 months as that state’s governor, she insists that she never hesitated about accepting McCain’s offer. Since that time, she appears to have made no effort to fill the gaps that exist in her base of knowledge – indeed, she doesn’t seem to acknowledge to herself that any such gaps exist. Given the seriousness with which she gave (and repeatedly defended) answers such as “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” to reporters expressing doubts about her foreign policy knowledge and experience, it would certainly appear that Ms. Palin is afflicted with anosognosia as described in the article.

Again, in mentioning Ms. Palin, I’m not attempting to sway the direction of this thread to one that is political. I think the subject matter of the NYT article is strong enough to stand on its own, and hope that other Piggs will weigh in with their thoughts and opinions on it. I’ve come across many people employed in positions who not only aren’t in possession of the skills and knowledge to perform the duties required by the job, but are entirely unaware that such gaps exist. It’s almost as though they believe “having” the job constitutes “doing” the job. It’s scary.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=davelj]Taleb’s primary thesis is that as humans we systematically underestimate the frequency and importance of random events; that is, we underestimate the role of luck (randomness) in our lives.[/quote]

Reminds me of one of my favorite StarTrek exchanges (from the original series):
Spock: “Random chance seems to have operated in our favor”.
McCoy: “In plain, non-Vulcan English: We’ve been lucky.”
Spock: “I believe I said that, Doctor”.

[quote=davelj] This article, among other things, addresses the fact that humans systematically overestimate their understanding of all sorts of things. One of the themes that’s discussed is one I’ve mentioned here at the Pigg many times: What you know is not nearly as important as knowing/acknowledging what you don’t know. As humans we’re all bad at this to varying degrees. [/quote]

Spot-on, davelj. I’ve advised students many times over to ask questions, and pointed out that the only way to get to know something that you don’t already know is to ask questions. Without questions, there is no learning; without learning, there is no knowledge. Sounds ridiculously simplistic, like one of those “inspirational” posters that they sell at office supply stores. But it’s mind-boggling how many people, in all age groups, will not ask questions. Is it that they’re too embarrassed to ask, or that they simply lack intellectual curiosity?

However, several years back, I became aware of the phenomenon of “not knowing what you don’t know”, and shortly thereafter, realized that there are many people who will not acknowledge that there may be things that they do not know, including things that are essential to doing their jobs. The most glaring recent example that comes to mind – and I am NOT hijacking the thread – is Sarah Palin. Despite the fact that her experience included 6 years as mayor of a town of less than 6000 people in a relatively isolated state, and 18 months as that state’s governor, she insists that she never hesitated about accepting McCain’s offer. Since that time, she appears to have made no effort to fill the gaps that exist in her base of knowledge – indeed, she doesn’t seem to acknowledge to herself that any such gaps exist. Given the seriousness with which she gave (and repeatedly defended) answers such as “They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska” to reporters expressing doubts about her foreign policy knowledge and experience, it would certainly appear that Ms. Palin is afflicted with anosognosia as described in the article.

Again, in mentioning Ms. Palin, I’m not attempting to sway the direction of this thread to one that is political. I think the subject matter of the NYT article is strong enough to stand on its own, and hope that other Piggs will weigh in with their thoughts and opinions on it. I’ve come across many people employed in positions who not only aren’t in possession of the skills and knowledge to perform the duties required by the job, but are entirely unaware that such gaps exist. It’s almost as though they believe “having” the job constitutes “doing” the job. It’s scary.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]Sounds like the Obama admistration is trying to expand on these collective organizations. I’m all for banks shutting down these so called credit unions.

What’s next collectives for heathcare?

We are headed down socialism path and the democrats are ramming down the healthcare plan with death panels.

If you want true change, vote Palin 2012[/quote]

Newt, don’t you have some neighbors that you need to terrorize with your pit bull instead of terrorizing us with your illiterate bullshit. Jeez, you’re tiresome.

Go away, and don’t come back until (1) you learn how to construct a sentence; (2) you learn how to spell, define, and use PUNCTUATION (no, it’s not a form of socialism); and (3) get some new material. Please.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]Sounds like the Obama admistration is trying to expand on these collective organizations. I’m all for banks shutting down these so called credit unions.

What’s next collectives for heathcare?

We are headed down socialism path and the democrats are ramming down the healthcare plan with death panels.

If you want true change, vote Palin 2012[/quote]

Newt, don’t you have some neighbors that you need to terrorize with your pit bull instead of terrorizing us with your illiterate bullshit. Jeez, you’re tiresome.

Go away, and don’t come back until (1) you learn how to construct a sentence; (2) you learn how to spell, define, and use PUNCTUATION (no, it’s not a form of socialism); and (3) get some new material. Please.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]Sounds like the Obama admistration is trying to expand on these collective organizations. I’m all for banks shutting down these so called credit unions.

What’s next collectives for heathcare?

We are headed down socialism path and the democrats are ramming down the healthcare plan with death panels.

If you want true change, vote Palin 2012[/quote]

Newt, don’t you have some neighbors that you need to terrorize with your pit bull instead of terrorizing us with your illiterate bullshit. Jeez, you’re tiresome.

Go away, and don’t come back until (1) you learn how to construct a sentence; (2) you learn how to spell, define, and use PUNCTUATION (no, it’s not a form of socialism); and (3) get some new material. Please.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]Sounds like the Obama admistration is trying to expand on these collective organizations. I’m all for banks shutting down these so called credit unions.

What’s next collectives for heathcare?

We are headed down socialism path and the democrats are ramming down the healthcare plan with death panels.

If you want true change, vote Palin 2012[/quote]

Newt, don’t you have some neighbors that you need to terrorize with your pit bull instead of terrorizing us with your illiterate bullshit. Jeez, you’re tiresome.

Go away, and don’t come back until (1) you learn how to construct a sentence; (2) you learn how to spell, define, and use PUNCTUATION (no, it’s not a form of socialism); and (3) get some new material. Please.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=NewtoSanDiego]Sounds like the Obama admistration is trying to expand on these collective organizations. I’m all for banks shutting down these so called credit unions.

What’s next collectives for heathcare?

We are headed down socialism path and the democrats are ramming down the healthcare plan with death panels.

If you want true change, vote Palin 2012[/quote]

Newt, don’t you have some neighbors that you need to terrorize with your pit bull instead of terrorizing us with your illiterate bullshit. Jeez, you’re tiresome.

Go away, and don’t come back until (1) you learn how to construct a sentence; (2) you learn how to spell, define, and use PUNCTUATION (no, it’s not a form of socialism); and (3) get some new material. Please.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=svelte] I don’t think that would prove anything except that Toyota drivers are timid. [/quote]

I don’t know, svelte. I’ve bought four Toyotas in the last seven years. Hasn’t done a thing to calm me down. Camrys, minivans, even a Prius finally – doesn’t matter. They could all be ’68 Plymouth Road Runners as far as I’m concerned. I think I was inspired by the Beach Boys’ “Little Old Lady From Pasadena” as a kid.

[quote=svelte] I curse every time I get behind a white Camry because I know that person is going to drive under the speed limit and be afraid of every movement of every vehicle around them. Other color Camrys and most Corolla drivers are almost as bad, but white Camrys are the absolute worst.[/quote]

However, I do think there’s something to your white Camry theory. I’d go so far as to say any driver of a white sedan, at least here in the east. Really strange phenomenon.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=svelte] I don’t think that would prove anything except that Toyota drivers are timid. [/quote]

I don’t know, svelte. I’ve bought four Toyotas in the last seven years. Hasn’t done a thing to calm me down. Camrys, minivans, even a Prius finally – doesn’t matter. They could all be ’68 Plymouth Road Runners as far as I’m concerned. I think I was inspired by the Beach Boys’ “Little Old Lady From Pasadena” as a kid.

[quote=svelte] I curse every time I get behind a white Camry because I know that person is going to drive under the speed limit and be afraid of every movement of every vehicle around them. Other color Camrys and most Corolla drivers are almost as bad, but white Camrys are the absolute worst.[/quote]

However, I do think there’s something to your white Camry theory. I’d go so far as to say any driver of a white sedan, at least here in the east. Really strange phenomenon.

[eavesdropper]

[quote=svelte] I don’t think that would prove anything except that Toyota drivers are timid. [/quote]

I don’t know, svelte. I’ve bought four Toyotas in the last seven years. Hasn’t done a thing to calm me down. Camrys, minivans, even a Prius finally – doesn’t matter. They could all be ’68 Plymouth Road Runners as far as I’m concerned. I think I was inspired by the Beach Boys’ “Little Old Lady From Pasadena” as a kid.

[quote=svelte] I curse every time I get behind a white Camry because I know that person is going to drive under the speed limit and be afraid of every movement of every vehicle around them. Other color Camrys and most Corolla drivers are almost as bad, but white Camrys are the absolute worst.[/quote]

However, I do think there’s something to your white Camry theory. I’d go so far as to say any driver of a white sedan, at least here in the east. Really strange phenomenon.

[Author]

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