[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?[/quote]

I don’t know much about this but I thought a lot of volunteer departments had a fire station and folks just volunteered for one night per week (or every two weeks) but stayed in the station for that night or two. So, it’s like a full-time station perpetually staffed by part-timers.

[quote=CA renter]
In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).[/quote]

That makes sense but if 73% of all fire fighters are indeed volunteers and we know that a huge proportion of the total population in the U.S. is in urban areas, then there must be a lot of volunteers in some major metropolitan areas as well. I agree that the rural model doesn’t translate perfectly to the urban model, but clearly a lot of folks are willing to do this work on a very part-time basis for free. In my view, we should figure out how to use these folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?[/quote]

I don’t know much about this but I thought a lot of volunteer departments had a fire station and folks just volunteered for one night per week (or every two weeks) but stayed in the station for that night or two. So, it’s like a full-time station perpetually staffed by part-timers.

[quote=CA renter]
In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).[/quote]

That makes sense but if 73% of all fire fighters are indeed volunteers and we know that a huge proportion of the total population in the U.S. is in urban areas, then there must be a lot of volunteers in some major metropolitan areas as well. I agree that the rural model doesn’t translate perfectly to the urban model, but clearly a lot of folks are willing to do this work on a very part-time basis for free. In my view, we should figure out how to use these folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?[/quote]

I don’t know much about this but I thought a lot of volunteer departments had a fire station and folks just volunteered for one night per week (or every two weeks) but stayed in the station for that night or two. So, it’s like a full-time station perpetually staffed by part-timers.

[quote=CA renter]
In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).[/quote]

That makes sense but if 73% of all fire fighters are indeed volunteers and we know that a huge proportion of the total population in the U.S. is in urban areas, then there must be a lot of volunteers in some major metropolitan areas as well. I agree that the rural model doesn’t translate perfectly to the urban model, but clearly a lot of folks are willing to do this work on a very part-time basis for free. In my view, we should figure out how to use these folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

In general, volunteer departments are in rural areas where paid fire departments are not needed, or where they can’t afford one. If you look at a map of the U.S., you’ll quickly see why we appear to have such a large volunteer force. Things are different from department to department, but in many (most?) cases, these departments would not have a staffed station. If a call comes in, the volunteers carry radios around with them and they meet where the call is located (usually one or two will go to the station first to get the engine, or it’s possible someone might bring the engine home). Can you imagine the reponse times in an urban/suburban setting?[/quote]

I don’t know much about this but I thought a lot of volunteer departments had a fire station and folks just volunteered for one night per week (or every two weeks) but stayed in the station for that night or two. So, it’s like a full-time station perpetually staffed by part-timers.

[quote=CA renter]
In urban/suburban areas, if there is a volunteer component to a paid department, it would be used for training new recruits. Of course, the promise/hope of a job in the paid force is the incentive that makes these kids work for “free” (it still costs the department WRT administrative and training costs, equipment, insurance, etc.). If they don’t think the volunteer experience will land them a job, or significantly increase their chances, I guarantee you there would be precious few full-time volunteers, if any (and the ones who would volunteer F/T are the weird “groupie” types that are actually very dangerous — nobody wants to hire those).[/quote]

That makes sense but if 73% of all fire fighters are indeed volunteers and we know that a huge proportion of the total population in the U.S. is in urban areas, then there must be a lot of volunteers in some major metropolitan areas as well. I agree that the rural model doesn’t translate perfectly to the urban model, but clearly a lot of folks are willing to do this work on a very part-time basis for free. In my view, we should figure out how to use these folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]
Again, these positions are NOT the same as professional firefighters/paramedics. They don’t have anywhere near the same education/training, experience, professionalism, etc. These are training programs for people who want to become professional firefighters/paramedics.
[/quote]

Are you sure? This site for Pasadena’s fire department makes it sound like the volunteers provide all of the fire and related services to the City of Pasadena. I would think that a wealthy city like Pasadena would pay their fire department if they felt there was some quality discrepancy between the volunteers and the “professionals.” What am I missing here?

[Edit – this is Pasadena, Texas! Not Pasadena, California… whoops! So skip to the final paragraph below…]

http://www.pasadenavfd.com/about.html

In the larger scheme of things, are all of the 73% of volunteer fire fighters in the U.S. simply being trained to be paid fire fighters? I doubt that’s the case, but I could be wrong.

[davelj]

[quote=davelj]Why don’t we add a large volunteer component to San Diego’s fire department?

Plenty of large cities have both a full-time (career) component alongside an even larger volunteer component. 73% of all fire fighters in the U.S. are volunteers. There’s no evidence to suggest that the volunteers perform any worse than the full-timers. Why don’t we do that here? That would solve a lot of comp-related issues going forward.[/quote]

No one responded to this. As a taxpayer I’m wondering why we don’t harness the energies of all of those folks who want to be paramedics and fire fighters for free? They don’t want ANY compensation. I see no reason for San Diego’s fire department not to have a large volunteer component like a lot of other cities. Hell, Pasadena’s fire department is entirely voluntary.

[davelj]

[quote=davelj]Why don’t we add a large volunteer component to San Diego’s fire department?

Plenty of large cities have both a full-time (career) component alongside an even larger volunteer component. 73% of all fire fighters in the U.S. are volunteers. There’s no evidence to suggest that the volunteers perform any worse than the full-timers. Why don’t we do that here? That would solve a lot of comp-related issues going forward.[/quote]

No one responded to this. As a taxpayer I’m wondering why we don’t harness the energies of all of those folks who want to be paramedics and fire fighters for free? They don’t want ANY compensation. I see no reason for San Diego’s fire department not to have a large volunteer component like a lot of other cities. Hell, Pasadena’s fire department is entirely voluntary.

[davelj]

[quote=davelj]Why don’t we add a large volunteer component to San Diego’s fire department?

Plenty of large cities have both a full-time (career) component alongside an even larger volunteer component. 73% of all fire fighters in the U.S. are volunteers. There’s no evidence to suggest that the volunteers perform any worse than the full-timers. Why don’t we do that here? That would solve a lot of comp-related issues going forward.[/quote]

No one responded to this. As a taxpayer I’m wondering why we don’t harness the energies of all of those folks who want to be paramedics and fire fighters for free? They don’t want ANY compensation. I see no reason for San Diego’s fire department not to have a large volunteer component like a lot of other cities. Hell, Pasadena’s fire department is entirely voluntary.

[davelj]

[quote=davelj]Why don’t we add a large volunteer component to San Diego’s fire department?

Plenty of large cities have both a full-time (career) component alongside an even larger volunteer component. 73% of all fire fighters in the U.S. are volunteers. There’s no evidence to suggest that the volunteers perform any worse than the full-timers. Why don’t we do that here? That would solve a lot of comp-related issues going forward.[/quote]

No one responded to this. As a taxpayer I’m wondering why we don’t harness the energies of all of those folks who want to be paramedics and fire fighters for free? They don’t want ANY compensation. I see no reason for San Diego’s fire department not to have a large volunteer component like a lot of other cities. Hell, Pasadena’s fire department is entirely voluntary.

[davelj]

[quote=davelj]Why don’t we add a large volunteer component to San Diego’s fire department?

Plenty of large cities have both a full-time (career) component alongside an even larger volunteer component. 73% of all fire fighters in the U.S. are volunteers. There’s no evidence to suggest that the volunteers perform any worse than the full-timers. Why don’t we do that here? That would solve a lot of comp-related issues going forward.[/quote]

No one responded to this. As a taxpayer I’m wondering why we don’t harness the energies of all of those folks who want to be paramedics and fire fighters for free? They don’t want ANY compensation. I see no reason for San Diego’s fire department not to have a large volunteer component like a lot of other cities. Hell, Pasadena’s fire department is entirely voluntary.

[davelj]

[quote=investor]
Rich. I don’t blame you if you are not reading these worthless responses to my two entries…[/quote]

Good news, “investor”. Rich is indeed reading this thread. Beyond that, I’m going to respect his privacy. Obviously, he can always chime in if he so chooses. (You may not know, but his policy for the last couple of years has been to post only in threads he starts or to questions about something he’s specifically posted previously.) But suffice it to say that he’s enjoying the thread – I’ll leave it at that.

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