[danthedart]

Whose fault is it if they accept a sub-optimal offer? It is the agents fault. The listing agent has a contract with the seller to present all offers, to market the property etc. If the agent did not fulfill his/her end of the contract, that’s unethical. Its even more unethical if the agent does not fulfill the contract for personal gain.

Yes we all have different ethical standards, so you have a right to say that my ethical standards are not yours.

So just say that, but don’t say that I’m hypocritical or that if I were the buyer I would think differently.

The fact remains that I would not think differently about this situation if I were the buyer.

[danthedart]

[quote=AN][quote=danthedart]Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics. [/quote]
I don’t see how the agent selling a house at listing price (the price the seller agreed to) is unethical? Lets take this scenario and place it in 2004 time frame instead. Would it be unethical for the seller agent to sell the house at asking price knowing full well they probably get a lot more offers at probably higher price if they just wait it out a few months? Is it then also unethical for the seller to agreeing to a price that’s considered a good deal to the retail market?[/quote]

Well under the original scenarios that SD Realtor posted about, we don’t know if the house is being sold at listing price. We don’t know if the seller was presented all offers. We don’t know what the seller was told.

We know that the seller couldn’t possibly have gotten all the offers that they could have gotten because the listing was never really listed.

We know that the agent listed the property on the MLS for some reason other than trying to get offers on the property.

We know that the agents are not being forthcoming with what is happening with the deal.

We don’t know the specifics, but we know that the agents do not want to be honest about what’s going on. That’s what leads me to believe this is unethical.

Everything else we’ve been saying, is speculation.

I’d say that if the seller knows that he/she could get better offers and if he/she knows that the agent did not really market the property at all and the seller agreed to all of that and the purchase price, then its not unethical. If the agent has been completely honest with the bank or the seller about the details of the transaction, then it’s not unethical.

[danthedart]

[quote=AN][quote=danthedart]Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics. [/quote]
I don’t see how the agent selling a house at listing price (the price the seller agreed to) is unethical? Lets take this scenario and place it in 2004 time frame instead. Would it be unethical for the seller agent to sell the house at asking price knowing full well they probably get a lot more offers at probably higher price if they just wait it out a few months? Is it then also unethical for the seller to agreeing to a price that’s considered a good deal to the retail market?[/quote]

Well under the original scenarios that SD Realtor posted about, we don’t know if the house is being sold at listing price. We don’t know if the seller was presented all offers. We don’t know what the seller was told.

We know that the seller couldn’t possibly have gotten all the offers that they could have gotten because the listing was never really listed.

We know that the agent listed the property on the MLS for some reason other than trying to get offers on the property.

We know that the agents are not being forthcoming with what is happening with the deal.

We don’t know the specifics, but we know that the agents do not want to be honest about what’s going on. That’s what leads me to believe this is unethical.

Everything else we’ve been saying, is speculation.

I’d say that if the seller knows that he/she could get better offers and if he/she knows that the agent did not really market the property at all and the seller agreed to all of that and the purchase price, then its not unethical. If the agent has been completely honest with the bank or the seller about the details of the transaction, then it’s not unethical.

[danthedart]

[quote=AN][quote=danthedart]Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics. [/quote]
I don’t see how the agent selling a house at listing price (the price the seller agreed to) is unethical? Lets take this scenario and place it in 2004 time frame instead. Would it be unethical for the seller agent to sell the house at asking price knowing full well they probably get a lot more offers at probably higher price if they just wait it out a few months? Is it then also unethical for the seller to agreeing to a price that’s considered a good deal to the retail market?[/quote]

Well under the original scenarios that SD Realtor posted about, we don’t know if the house is being sold at listing price. We don’t know if the seller was presented all offers. We don’t know what the seller was told.

We know that the seller couldn’t possibly have gotten all the offers that they could have gotten because the listing was never really listed.

We know that the agent listed the property on the MLS for some reason other than trying to get offers on the property.

We know that the agents are not being forthcoming with what is happening with the deal.

We don’t know the specifics, but we know that the agents do not want to be honest about what’s going on. That’s what leads me to believe this is unethical.

Everything else we’ve been saying, is speculation.

I’d say that if the seller knows that he/she could get better offers and if he/she knows that the agent did not really market the property at all and the seller agreed to all of that and the purchase price, then its not unethical. If the agent has been completely honest with the bank or the seller about the details of the transaction, then it’s not unethical.

[danthedart]

[quote=AN][quote=danthedart]Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics. [/quote]
I don’t see how the agent selling a house at listing price (the price the seller agreed to) is unethical? Lets take this scenario and place it in 2004 time frame instead. Would it be unethical for the seller agent to sell the house at asking price knowing full well they probably get a lot more offers at probably higher price if they just wait it out a few months? Is it then also unethical for the seller to agreeing to a price that’s considered a good deal to the retail market?[/quote]

Well under the original scenarios that SD Realtor posted about, we don’t know if the house is being sold at listing price. We don’t know if the seller was presented all offers. We don’t know what the seller was told.

We know that the seller couldn’t possibly have gotten all the offers that they could have gotten because the listing was never really listed.

We know that the agent listed the property on the MLS for some reason other than trying to get offers on the property.

We know that the agents are not being forthcoming with what is happening with the deal.

We don’t know the specifics, but we know that the agents do not want to be honest about what’s going on. That’s what leads me to believe this is unethical.

Everything else we’ve been saying, is speculation.

I’d say that if the seller knows that he/she could get better offers and if he/she knows that the agent did not really market the property at all and the seller agreed to all of that and the purchase price, then its not unethical. If the agent has been completely honest with the bank or the seller about the details of the transaction, then it’s not unethical.

[danthedart]

[quote=AN][quote=danthedart]Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics. [/quote]
I don’t see how the agent selling a house at listing price (the price the seller agreed to) is unethical? Lets take this scenario and place it in 2004 time frame instead. Would it be unethical for the seller agent to sell the house at asking price knowing full well they probably get a lot more offers at probably higher price if they just wait it out a few months? Is it then also unethical for the seller to agreeing to a price that’s considered a good deal to the retail market?[/quote]

Well under the original scenarios that SD Realtor posted about, we don’t know if the house is being sold at listing price. We don’t know if the seller was presented all offers. We don’t know what the seller was told.

We know that the seller couldn’t possibly have gotten all the offers that they could have gotten because the listing was never really listed.

We know that the agent listed the property on the MLS for some reason other than trying to get offers on the property.

We know that the agents are not being forthcoming with what is happening with the deal.

We don’t know the specifics, but we know that the agents do not want to be honest about what’s going on. That’s what leads me to believe this is unethical.

Everything else we’ve been saying, is speculation.

I’d say that if the seller knows that he/she could get better offers and if he/she knows that the agent did not really market the property at all and the seller agreed to all of that and the purchase price, then its not unethical. If the agent has been completely honest with the bank or the seller about the details of the transaction, then it’s not unethical.

[danthedart]

Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics.

[danthedart]

Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics.

[danthedart]

Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics.

[danthedart]

Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics.

[danthedart]

Well thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, being honest about being dishonest doesn’t really get you anywhere ethically.

In all likelihood I would NOT do the deal.

It may not be illegal for the buyer, but for the agent its a violation of of their agreement with the seller and most likely fraud. Obviously you’d never be able to prove that in court, but that’s what it is.

I am sympathetic to a buyer because I would be tempted to do the deal too, but I am not sympathetic to the agent at all. Agents facilitating these deals are ripping off the people they’re supposedly representing.

No, the difference between you and I is that you would dive into the deal thinking you’re doing nothing wrong. If I did the deal, which I honestly do not believe I would, I would be doing the deal knowing I was doing something unethical.

Isn’t that the real question here? Is this deal ethical or not? It’s not about my personal ethics or your personal ethics.

[danthedart]

davelj:

Wait, so it wasn’t a rhetorical question?

Obviously the buyer is getting a great deal and a typical buyer is going to do whatever they’re going to do to get it.

I was unaware that you were directing that question at me specifically because you stated explicitly that it was a rhetorical question. I answered for a typical buyer. And I completely understand where a typical buyer is coming from, trying to get the best deal no matter what.

If you’re directing that question at me, as a buyer I would not participate in an ethically questionable deal. Yes I would be tempted to, and you can never say for sure until you’re actually in that situation and faced with the money you’d be saving. But I would definitely be very disappointed in myself if I took advantage of the seller like that.

So I ask you directly, would YOU do that type of deal as a buyer?

[danthedart]

davelj:

Wait, so it wasn’t a rhetorical question?

Obviously the buyer is getting a great deal and a typical buyer is going to do whatever they’re going to do to get it.

I was unaware that you were directing that question at me specifically because you stated explicitly that it was a rhetorical question. I answered for a typical buyer. And I completely understand where a typical buyer is coming from, trying to get the best deal no matter what.

If you’re directing that question at me, as a buyer I would not participate in an ethically questionable deal. Yes I would be tempted to, and you can never say for sure until you’re actually in that situation and faced with the money you’d be saving. But I would definitely be very disappointed in myself if I took advantage of the seller like that.

So I ask you directly, would YOU do that type of deal as a buyer?

[danthedart]

davelj:

Wait, so it wasn’t a rhetorical question?

Obviously the buyer is getting a great deal and a typical buyer is going to do whatever they’re going to do to get it.

I was unaware that you were directing that question at me specifically because you stated explicitly that it was a rhetorical question. I answered for a typical buyer. And I completely understand where a typical buyer is coming from, trying to get the best deal no matter what.

If you’re directing that question at me, as a buyer I would not participate in an ethically questionable deal. Yes I would be tempted to, and you can never say for sure until you’re actually in that situation and faced with the money you’d be saving. But I would definitely be very disappointed in myself if I took advantage of the seller like that.

So I ask you directly, would YOU do that type of deal as a buyer?

[danthedart]

davelj:

Wait, so it wasn’t a rhetorical question?

Obviously the buyer is getting a great deal and a typical buyer is going to do whatever they’re going to do to get it.

I was unaware that you were directing that question at me specifically because you stated explicitly that it was a rhetorical question. I answered for a typical buyer. And I completely understand where a typical buyer is coming from, trying to get the best deal no matter what.

If you’re directing that question at me, as a buyer I would not participate in an ethically questionable deal. Yes I would be tempted to, and you can never say for sure until you’re actually in that situation and faced with the money you’d be saving. But I would definitely be very disappointed in myself if I took advantage of the seller like that.

So I ask you directly, would YOU do that type of deal as a buyer?

[Author]

Posts