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May 18, 2009 at 12:45 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401573May 18, 2009 at 12:45 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401805
CricketOnTheHearth
ParticipantI think I might have started the latest Temecula thing with my price comparison (not necessarily accurate numbers) between a Temecula house and one in India.
No diss of Temecula intended at all. I just mentioned it because it is a locale that comes up a lot on this board 😀
Flu, sorry to hear of all the krap you’ve gotten for being Asian. I wouldn’t doubt it, after hearing about Microsoft’s little trick of anchoring a couple hundred Indian programmers on a boat 3 miles out to sea, to program out there so they wouldn’t have to officially bring them into the country.
The UAW has a 1000 acre golf course?????
I’m sorry, but while I am as in favor of the idea(l) of unions as the next person, that does it for me. The UAW has become as ossified and stiff-necked as GM (mis)management itself. Both need to be freshened up (rebuilt from scratch?)May 18, 2009 at 12:45 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401864ParticipantI think I might have started the latest Temecula thing with my price comparison (not necessarily accurate numbers) between a Temecula house and one in India.
No diss of Temecula intended at all. I just mentioned it because it is a locale that comes up a lot on this board 😀
Flu, sorry to hear of all the krap you’ve gotten for being Asian. I wouldn’t doubt it, after hearing about Microsoft’s little trick of anchoring a couple hundred Indian programmers on a boat 3 miles out to sea, to program out there so they wouldn’t have to officially bring them into the country.
The UAW has a 1000 acre golf course?????
I’m sorry, but while I am as in favor of the idea(l) of unions as the next person, that does it for me. The UAW has become as ossified and stiff-necked as GM (mis)management itself. Both need to be freshened up (rebuilt from scratch?)May 18, 2009 at 12:45 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #402013ParticipantI think I might have started the latest Temecula thing with my price comparison (not necessarily accurate numbers) between a Temecula house and one in India.
No diss of Temecula intended at all. I just mentioned it because it is a locale that comes up a lot on this board 😀
Flu, sorry to hear of all the krap you’ve gotten for being Asian. I wouldn’t doubt it, after hearing about Microsoft’s little trick of anchoring a couple hundred Indian programmers on a boat 3 miles out to sea, to program out there so they wouldn’t have to officially bring them into the country.
The UAW has a 1000 acre golf course?????
I’m sorry, but while I am as in favor of the idea(l) of unions as the next person, that does it for me. The UAW has become as ossified and stiff-necked as GM (mis)management itself. Both need to be freshened up (rebuilt from scratch?)ParticipantWhat I hate is the idea that all these “investors” will run out and snap up the affordable properties before the wannabe homeowners can, then rent them right back to those same people who wanted to buy in the first place. In other words, force people to be renters against their wishes.
ParticipantWhat I hate is the idea that all these “investors” will run out and snap up the affordable properties before the wannabe homeowners can, then rent them right back to those same people who wanted to buy in the first place. In other words, force people to be renters against their wishes.
ParticipantWhat I hate is the idea that all these “investors” will run out and snap up the affordable properties before the wannabe homeowners can, then rent them right back to those same people who wanted to buy in the first place. In other words, force people to be renters against their wishes.
ParticipantWhat I hate is the idea that all these “investors” will run out and snap up the affordable properties before the wannabe homeowners can, then rent them right back to those same people who wanted to buy in the first place. In other words, force people to be renters against their wishes.
ParticipantWhat I hate is the idea that all these “investors” will run out and snap up the affordable properties before the wannabe homeowners can, then rent them right back to those same people who wanted to buy in the first place. In other words, force people to be renters against their wishes.
May 17, 2009 at 6:52 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #400794ParticipantHey, Flu and Rt.66:
Just a few cents’ worth of my own…
1) I do try to buy made-in-USA… but ever try to do that? Especially in a Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It is HARD to find a USA-made version of things; virtually impossible in the case of some items. For example, our electronics industry got bomb-cratered in the 70’s and it is ALL Japan/Korea/China now.
A smile comes onto my face whenever I DO find a Made in USA item, and I happily buy it, even if my wallet winces a little. I notice such items tend to be better-built than their overseas counterparts, too. Something about not being made with Chinese slave labor, I guess.
I have to say I was quite impressed by the Ford Focus I rented a couple of years ago– solid little car, and got pretty darn good mileage. And I say that as a diehard riceburner-driver (Toyotas). The Ford is something I will keep in mind at such time as when I get in the market for a new car (but that’s not for a while yet). As you point out, the where-was-it-made factor will be more important than the home site of the nameplate. There are a buttload of Toyotas that are built in the USA nowadays, for example.
And I read somewhere recently that US-made steel is the “gourmet” steel of the world. If people want just any old crap they buy from China, but if they want the best steel they can get, they buy from the USA. There are survivors of the US’ Rust Belt crash, and they are doing all right.
2) We here in the USA are caught at the top of what I call a “gravitational wage slope”, aggravated not the least by our higher cost of living, especially housing. Sure, we can all afford to downsize some, there is a lot of ‘krap’ in Americans’ lives and households we don’t really need. But when we have to turn and face the fact that an engineer in India can live in a Temecula-style house for like $50,000 where it costs like $150,000 here, well… you can see our dilemma.
To Rt.66’s point, my coworker was telling me a year or two ago about a noted economist who made up a list of all American jobs and occupations that could reasonably be outsourced overseas. The economist discovered to his chagrin that one of these jobs was his own.
But, there is a phenomenon that when a country overseas industrializes, their wages go up. That is why the cheapy-imports countries have changed from being Japan (60’s) to Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan (70’s) to Korea (80’s) now to China and Malaysia and India.
And, cost of living in the middle of America is much less than on the coasts. I just saw somebody else comment about a house in Grand Rapids, Michigan that sold for $65,000. There is a grand swathe ranging from Pennsylvania to Minnesota, and down to Alabama to Texas, that has very low housing etc prices and costs compared to the coasts.
What I am driving at is, I wonder when middle American workers will become wage-competitive with the overseas ones, taking into account the costs to ship things across the Pacific, unseen costs due to language barriers, etc. I think that day is coming. To a small extent, it is already in process– tech support call centers are starting to relocate back into the US, including my own company, which is starting up two sites in New Mexico and another US state.
At that point we will see a wave of “insourcing” into Middle America, and then the renaissance begins.
May 17, 2009 at 6:52 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401047ParticipantHey, Flu and Rt.66:
Just a few cents’ worth of my own…
1) I do try to buy made-in-USA… but ever try to do that? Especially in a Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It is HARD to find a USA-made version of things; virtually impossible in the case of some items. For example, our electronics industry got bomb-cratered in the 70’s and it is ALL Japan/Korea/China now.
A smile comes onto my face whenever I DO find a Made in USA item, and I happily buy it, even if my wallet winces a little. I notice such items tend to be better-built than their overseas counterparts, too. Something about not being made with Chinese slave labor, I guess.
I have to say I was quite impressed by the Ford Focus I rented a couple of years ago– solid little car, and got pretty darn good mileage. And I say that as a diehard riceburner-driver (Toyotas). The Ford is something I will keep in mind at such time as when I get in the market for a new car (but that’s not for a while yet). As you point out, the where-was-it-made factor will be more important than the home site of the nameplate. There are a buttload of Toyotas that are built in the USA nowadays, for example.
And I read somewhere recently that US-made steel is the “gourmet” steel of the world. If people want just any old crap they buy from China, but if they want the best steel they can get, they buy from the USA. There are survivors of the US’ Rust Belt crash, and they are doing all right.
2) We here in the USA are caught at the top of what I call a “gravitational wage slope”, aggravated not the least by our higher cost of living, especially housing. Sure, we can all afford to downsize some, there is a lot of ‘krap’ in Americans’ lives and households we don’t really need. But when we have to turn and face the fact that an engineer in India can live in a Temecula-style house for like $50,000 where it costs like $150,000 here, well… you can see our dilemma.
To Rt.66’s point, my coworker was telling me a year or two ago about a noted economist who made up a list of all American jobs and occupations that could reasonably be outsourced overseas. The economist discovered to his chagrin that one of these jobs was his own.
But, there is a phenomenon that when a country overseas industrializes, their wages go up. That is why the cheapy-imports countries have changed from being Japan (60’s) to Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan (70’s) to Korea (80’s) now to China and Malaysia and India.
And, cost of living in the middle of America is much less than on the coasts. I just saw somebody else comment about a house in Grand Rapids, Michigan that sold for $65,000. There is a grand swathe ranging from Pennsylvania to Minnesota, and down to Alabama to Texas, that has very low housing etc prices and costs compared to the coasts.
What I am driving at is, I wonder when middle American workers will become wage-competitive with the overseas ones, taking into account the costs to ship things across the Pacific, unseen costs due to language barriers, etc. I think that day is coming. To a small extent, it is already in process– tech support call centers are starting to relocate back into the US, including my own company, which is starting up two sites in New Mexico and another US state.
At that point we will see a wave of “insourcing” into Middle America, and then the renaissance begins.
May 17, 2009 at 6:52 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401281ParticipantHey, Flu and Rt.66:
Just a few cents’ worth of my own…
1) I do try to buy made-in-USA… but ever try to do that? Especially in a Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It is HARD to find a USA-made version of things; virtually impossible in the case of some items. For example, our electronics industry got bomb-cratered in the 70’s and it is ALL Japan/Korea/China now.
A smile comes onto my face whenever I DO find a Made in USA item, and I happily buy it, even if my wallet winces a little. I notice such items tend to be better-built than their overseas counterparts, too. Something about not being made with Chinese slave labor, I guess.
I have to say I was quite impressed by the Ford Focus I rented a couple of years ago– solid little car, and got pretty darn good mileage. And I say that as a diehard riceburner-driver (Toyotas). The Ford is something I will keep in mind at such time as when I get in the market for a new car (but that’s not for a while yet). As you point out, the where-was-it-made factor will be more important than the home site of the nameplate. There are a buttload of Toyotas that are built in the USA nowadays, for example.
And I read somewhere recently that US-made steel is the “gourmet” steel of the world. If people want just any old crap they buy from China, but if they want the best steel they can get, they buy from the USA. There are survivors of the US’ Rust Belt crash, and they are doing all right.
2) We here in the USA are caught at the top of what I call a “gravitational wage slope”, aggravated not the least by our higher cost of living, especially housing. Sure, we can all afford to downsize some, there is a lot of ‘krap’ in Americans’ lives and households we don’t really need. But when we have to turn and face the fact that an engineer in India can live in a Temecula-style house for like $50,000 where it costs like $150,000 here, well… you can see our dilemma.
To Rt.66’s point, my coworker was telling me a year or two ago about a noted economist who made up a list of all American jobs and occupations that could reasonably be outsourced overseas. The economist discovered to his chagrin that one of these jobs was his own.
But, there is a phenomenon that when a country overseas industrializes, their wages go up. That is why the cheapy-imports countries have changed from being Japan (60’s) to Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan (70’s) to Korea (80’s) now to China and Malaysia and India.
And, cost of living in the middle of America is much less than on the coasts. I just saw somebody else comment about a house in Grand Rapids, Michigan that sold for $65,000. There is a grand swathe ranging from Pennsylvania to Minnesota, and down to Alabama to Texas, that has very low housing etc prices and costs compared to the coasts.
What I am driving at is, I wonder when middle American workers will become wage-competitive with the overseas ones, taking into account the costs to ship things across the Pacific, unseen costs due to language barriers, etc. I think that day is coming. To a small extent, it is already in process– tech support call centers are starting to relocate back into the US, including my own company, which is starting up two sites in New Mexico and another US state.
At that point we will see a wave of “insourcing” into Middle America, and then the renaissance begins.
May 17, 2009 at 6:52 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401337ParticipantHey, Flu and Rt.66:
Just a few cents’ worth of my own…
1) I do try to buy made-in-USA… but ever try to do that? Especially in a Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It is HARD to find a USA-made version of things; virtually impossible in the case of some items. For example, our electronics industry got bomb-cratered in the 70’s and it is ALL Japan/Korea/China now.
A smile comes onto my face whenever I DO find a Made in USA item, and I happily buy it, even if my wallet winces a little. I notice such items tend to be better-built than their overseas counterparts, too. Something about not being made with Chinese slave labor, I guess.
I have to say I was quite impressed by the Ford Focus I rented a couple of years ago– solid little car, and got pretty darn good mileage. And I say that as a diehard riceburner-driver (Toyotas). The Ford is something I will keep in mind at such time as when I get in the market for a new car (but that’s not for a while yet). As you point out, the where-was-it-made factor will be more important than the home site of the nameplate. There are a buttload of Toyotas that are built in the USA nowadays, for example.
And I read somewhere recently that US-made steel is the “gourmet” steel of the world. If people want just any old crap they buy from China, but if they want the best steel they can get, they buy from the USA. There are survivors of the US’ Rust Belt crash, and they are doing all right.
2) We here in the USA are caught at the top of what I call a “gravitational wage slope”, aggravated not the least by our higher cost of living, especially housing. Sure, we can all afford to downsize some, there is a lot of ‘krap’ in Americans’ lives and households we don’t really need. But when we have to turn and face the fact that an engineer in India can live in a Temecula-style house for like $50,000 where it costs like $150,000 here, well… you can see our dilemma.
To Rt.66’s point, my coworker was telling me a year or two ago about a noted economist who made up a list of all American jobs and occupations that could reasonably be outsourced overseas. The economist discovered to his chagrin that one of these jobs was his own.
But, there is a phenomenon that when a country overseas industrializes, their wages go up. That is why the cheapy-imports countries have changed from being Japan (60’s) to Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan (70’s) to Korea (80’s) now to China and Malaysia and India.
And, cost of living in the middle of America is much less than on the coasts. I just saw somebody else comment about a house in Grand Rapids, Michigan that sold for $65,000. There is a grand swathe ranging from Pennsylvania to Minnesota, and down to Alabama to Texas, that has very low housing etc prices and costs compared to the coasts.
What I am driving at is, I wonder when middle American workers will become wage-competitive with the overseas ones, taking into account the costs to ship things across the Pacific, unseen costs due to language barriers, etc. I think that day is coming. To a small extent, it is already in process– tech support call centers are starting to relocate back into the US, including my own company, which is starting up two sites in New Mexico and another US state.
At that point we will see a wave of “insourcing” into Middle America, and then the renaissance begins.
May 17, 2009 at 6:52 PM in reply to: “The Worst Is Yet to Come”: If You’re Not Petrified, You’re Not Paying Attention” #401485ParticipantHey, Flu and Rt.66:
Just a few cents’ worth of my own…
1) I do try to buy made-in-USA… but ever try to do that? Especially in a Wal-Mart, Target, etc. It is HARD to find a USA-made version of things; virtually impossible in the case of some items. For example, our electronics industry got bomb-cratered in the 70’s and it is ALL Japan/Korea/China now.
A smile comes onto my face whenever I DO find a Made in USA item, and I happily buy it, even if my wallet winces a little. I notice such items tend to be better-built than their overseas counterparts, too. Something about not being made with Chinese slave labor, I guess.
I have to say I was quite impressed by the Ford Focus I rented a couple of years ago– solid little car, and got pretty darn good mileage. And I say that as a diehard riceburner-driver (Toyotas). The Ford is something I will keep in mind at such time as when I get in the market for a new car (but that’s not for a while yet). As you point out, the where-was-it-made factor will be more important than the home site of the nameplate. There are a buttload of Toyotas that are built in the USA nowadays, for example.
And I read somewhere recently that US-made steel is the “gourmet” steel of the world. If people want just any old crap they buy from China, but if they want the best steel they can get, they buy from the USA. There are survivors of the US’ Rust Belt crash, and they are doing all right.
2) We here in the USA are caught at the top of what I call a “gravitational wage slope”, aggravated not the least by our higher cost of living, especially housing. Sure, we can all afford to downsize some, there is a lot of ‘krap’ in Americans’ lives and households we don’t really need. But when we have to turn and face the fact that an engineer in India can live in a Temecula-style house for like $50,000 where it costs like $150,000 here, well… you can see our dilemma.
To Rt.66’s point, my coworker was telling me a year or two ago about a noted economist who made up a list of all American jobs and occupations that could reasonably be outsourced overseas. The economist discovered to his chagrin that one of these jobs was his own.
But, there is a phenomenon that when a country overseas industrializes, their wages go up. That is why the cheapy-imports countries have changed from being Japan (60’s) to Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan (70’s) to Korea (80’s) now to China and Malaysia and India.
And, cost of living in the middle of America is much less than on the coasts. I just saw somebody else comment about a house in Grand Rapids, Michigan that sold for $65,000. There is a grand swathe ranging from Pennsylvania to Minnesota, and down to Alabama to Texas, that has very low housing etc prices and costs compared to the coasts.
What I am driving at is, I wonder when middle American workers will become wage-competitive with the overseas ones, taking into account the costs to ship things across the Pacific, unseen costs due to language barriers, etc. I think that day is coming. To a small extent, it is already in process– tech support call centers are starting to relocate back into the US, including my own company, which is starting up two sites in New Mexico and another US state.
At that point we will see a wave of “insourcing” into Middle America, and then the renaissance begins.
ParticipantThis is a great and timely post because I, too, am “exasperated” and confused by all the conflicting data flying around. Some indicators are claiming a “bottom” (such as Robert Campbell’s “Crash Index” in his newsletter that I get) while other indicators (such as my wallet!) are saying no way, jose.
Despite supposedly expert indicators such as the crash index, my gut is just not seeing a bottom right now. With all the Alt-A recasts coming down the pike right now, unemployment sucking… and I am not sure how secure my own job is right now. I want to get something on a fixed mortgage for absolutely the lowest monthly payment I can get, so if I do lose the current job I can still keep my dwelling on a lower income.
Rent is just right out. Rent gets hiked every year and as I have complained before, my pay has not risen to cover it. In today’s sucky employment market, jumping to another, higher-paying job is looking unlikely at best.
So what would a price look like today if it was truly equivalent to the bottom we made in 1995-6? Well, I just happened to look at some condos in my area back then, which were selling for $100,000, and I took the CPI figures (use “Consumer Price Index History Table”) and calculated what the equivalent price of that place would be today after inflation.
Turns out a $100,000 condo in 1995 would be equivalent to a $140,500 condo today because of inflation. This is equivalent to about 1999-2000 “nominal” price per Zillow (same exact condos). To top it off, these actual same condos that I looked at in 1995 are currently selling for $200,000 or somewhat above (well, actually, being *offered* for that). So, this implies no bottom yet, at least in my area.
But all this implies a “normal” market where all the foreclosures come out and settle prices back to a realistic level. Can the government(s) and the banks jimmy the market and keep these prices up at bubble levels (and out of my reach without a long and exasperating commute?) I worry…
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