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bearishgurl
Participant[quote=ctr70]I wouldn’t buy anything to “break-even”. Why would you buy an investment to “break-even” and “hope” for appreciation with all the work and risk it takes to own rental property? Even if it does appreciate, to “realize” that appreciation and sell you pay a ton of taxes and costs anyway leaving you with 60 cents on the dollar of that appreciation. Yes you could 1031X and defer taxes, but that often happens at market peaks and you buy into another inflated property and you are forced to rush (I have heard of more horror stories of investors doing 1031X vs. just selling and paying the tax and depreciation recapture.) If you put 20% down & get a loan shoot for making $300+ per month TRUE positive cash flow after mortgage + taxes + insurance + vacancy + repairs + credit loss, etc…[/quote]
ctr70, I only “broke even” in 9 years time because the area I purchased in, during the pendency of my ownership, became a haven for the PCP trade, in both cigarette and “grass” form. The area wasn’t this way when we purchased. SDPD “Community Policing” program eventually cleaned this up and all the local phone booths were ripped out as well. There was also a (later) intermittent problem with pimping and prostitution in the immediate area. This was cleaned up significantly (after we sold) by the SDPD Vice Squad.
One of my tenants moved out in the middle of the night due to being broken into. This caused us to not only repair the door jamb but install wrought iron on the door and all the windows.
Under normal circumstances, during this time period, rental properties should have escalated in value.
Moral of this story: Never buy property across the street from a large “vacant lot.” This is a “breeding ground” for societal ills.
Participant[quote=ctr70]I wouldn’t buy anything to “break-even”. Why would you buy an investment to “break-even” and “hope” for appreciation with all the work and risk it takes to own rental property? Even if it does appreciate, to “realize” that appreciation and sell you pay a ton of taxes and costs anyway leaving you with 60 cents on the dollar of that appreciation. Yes you could 1031X and defer taxes, but that often happens at market peaks and you buy into another inflated property and you are forced to rush (I have heard of more horror stories of investors doing 1031X vs. just selling and paying the tax and depreciation recapture.) If you put 20% down & get a loan shoot for making $300+ per month TRUE positive cash flow after mortgage + taxes + insurance + vacancy + repairs + credit loss, etc…[/quote]
ctr70, I only “broke even” in 9 years time because the area I purchased in, during the pendency of my ownership, became a haven for the PCP trade, in both cigarette and “grass” form. The area wasn’t this way when we purchased. SDPD “Community Policing” program eventually cleaned this up and all the local phone booths were ripped out as well. There was also a (later) intermittent problem with pimping and prostitution in the immediate area. This was cleaned up significantly (after we sold) by the SDPD Vice Squad.
One of my tenants moved out in the middle of the night due to being broken into. This caused us to not only repair the door jamb but install wrought iron on the door and all the windows.
Under normal circumstances, during this time period, rental properties should have escalated in value.
Moral of this story: Never buy property across the street from a large “vacant lot.” This is a “breeding ground” for societal ills.
August 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM in reply to: OT:Looming Disaster for the Temecula Area: Liberty Quarry/Mega Mine #719204ParticipantPart of an 8,500-page environmental study paid for by Granite and vetted by Riverside County planners in 2009 concluded the quarry would not harm “tribal archaeological resources” at the site. The tribe disagrees with the study and said county planners ignored their concerns.
Granite wants to build a quarry on at least 135 acres of a 414-acre site sandwiched between Temecula and San Diego County. At its deepest point, the quarry would extend 1,020 feet into the ground. The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall.
For 75 years, Granite would use explosives to blast away a projected 270 million tons of aggregate, tiny rocks used as building materials. Asphalt and concrete also would be made at the site. Most of the aggregate would be carried by truck into San Diego County.
Supporters say the quarry would support high-paying jobs, generate hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes and fees and solve an aggregate shortage that threatens to derail economic recovery efforts. Granite also said the quarry would be unnoticed from the outside and improve air quality because diesel-spewing trucks wouldn’t have to travel as far for aggregate.
Critics say the quarry would worsen truck traffic; cause air, noise and light pollution; spoil a neighboring wilderness preserve; sever a crucial wildlife corridor and hurt tourism.
Unless the anti-quarry bill passes — a vote could come before Sept. 9 — the Riverside County Board of Supervisors will decide whether the quarry is approved. The Planning Commission’s fifth hearing on the project is at 9 a.m. Monday at Rancho Community Church, 30300 Rancho Community Way, Temecula. The panel eventually will vote on a series of findings before supervisors take up the issue.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the “real world.” The tribe has two remedies, depending on the outcome of the vote of county supvrs and the outcome of the Planning Commission’s hg(s) on the issue. They can file suit on the County or file a writ of mandamus on the Planning Commission. We shall await with baited breath on the outcome. The tribe would have to show the environmental destruction to their land or harm to their “archaeological resources” in their complaint or petition :=]
August 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM in reply to: OT:Looming Disaster for the Temecula Area: Liberty Quarry/Mega Mine #719295ParticipantPart of an 8,500-page environmental study paid for by Granite and vetted by Riverside County planners in 2009 concluded the quarry would not harm “tribal archaeological resources” at the site. The tribe disagrees with the study and said county planners ignored their concerns.
Granite wants to build a quarry on at least 135 acres of a 414-acre site sandwiched between Temecula and San Diego County. At its deepest point, the quarry would extend 1,020 feet into the ground. The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall.
For 75 years, Granite would use explosives to blast away a projected 270 million tons of aggregate, tiny rocks used as building materials. Asphalt and concrete also would be made at the site. Most of the aggregate would be carried by truck into San Diego County.
Supporters say the quarry would support high-paying jobs, generate hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes and fees and solve an aggregate shortage that threatens to derail economic recovery efforts. Granite also said the quarry would be unnoticed from the outside and improve air quality because diesel-spewing trucks wouldn’t have to travel as far for aggregate.
Critics say the quarry would worsen truck traffic; cause air, noise and light pollution; spoil a neighboring wilderness preserve; sever a crucial wildlife corridor and hurt tourism.
Unless the anti-quarry bill passes — a vote could come before Sept. 9 — the Riverside County Board of Supervisors will decide whether the quarry is approved. The Planning Commission’s fifth hearing on the project is at 9 a.m. Monday at Rancho Community Church, 30300 Rancho Community Way, Temecula. The panel eventually will vote on a series of findings before supervisors take up the issue.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the “real world.” The tribe has two remedies, depending on the outcome of the vote of county supvrs and the outcome of the Planning Commission’s hg(s) on the issue. They can file suit on the County or file a writ of mandamus on the Planning Commission. We shall await with baited breath on the outcome. The tribe would have to show the environmental destruction to their land or harm to their “archaeological resources” in their complaint or petition :=]
August 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM in reply to: OT:Looming Disaster for the Temecula Area: Liberty Quarry/Mega Mine #719896ParticipantPart of an 8,500-page environmental study paid for by Granite and vetted by Riverside County planners in 2009 concluded the quarry would not harm “tribal archaeological resources” at the site. The tribe disagrees with the study and said county planners ignored their concerns.
Granite wants to build a quarry on at least 135 acres of a 414-acre site sandwiched between Temecula and San Diego County. At its deepest point, the quarry would extend 1,020 feet into the ground. The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall.
For 75 years, Granite would use explosives to blast away a projected 270 million tons of aggregate, tiny rocks used as building materials. Asphalt and concrete also would be made at the site. Most of the aggregate would be carried by truck into San Diego County.
Supporters say the quarry would support high-paying jobs, generate hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes and fees and solve an aggregate shortage that threatens to derail economic recovery efforts. Granite also said the quarry would be unnoticed from the outside and improve air quality because diesel-spewing trucks wouldn’t have to travel as far for aggregate.
Critics say the quarry would worsen truck traffic; cause air, noise and light pollution; spoil a neighboring wilderness preserve; sever a crucial wildlife corridor and hurt tourism.
Unless the anti-quarry bill passes — a vote could come before Sept. 9 — the Riverside County Board of Supervisors will decide whether the quarry is approved. The Planning Commission’s fifth hearing on the project is at 9 a.m. Monday at Rancho Community Church, 30300 Rancho Community Way, Temecula. The panel eventually will vote on a series of findings before supervisors take up the issue.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the “real world.” The tribe has two remedies, depending on the outcome of the vote of county supvrs and the outcome of the Planning Commission’s hg(s) on the issue. They can file suit on the County or file a writ of mandamus on the Planning Commission. We shall await with baited breath on the outcome. The tribe would have to show the environmental destruction to their land or harm to their “archaeological resources” in their complaint or petition :=]
August 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM in reply to: OT:Looming Disaster for the Temecula Area: Liberty Quarry/Mega Mine #720055ParticipantPart of an 8,500-page environmental study paid for by Granite and vetted by Riverside County planners in 2009 concluded the quarry would not harm “tribal archaeological resources” at the site. The tribe disagrees with the study and said county planners ignored their concerns.
Granite wants to build a quarry on at least 135 acres of a 414-acre site sandwiched between Temecula and San Diego County. At its deepest point, the quarry would extend 1,020 feet into the ground. The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall.
For 75 years, Granite would use explosives to blast away a projected 270 million tons of aggregate, tiny rocks used as building materials. Asphalt and concrete also would be made at the site. Most of the aggregate would be carried by truck into San Diego County.
Supporters say the quarry would support high-paying jobs, generate hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes and fees and solve an aggregate shortage that threatens to derail economic recovery efforts. Granite also said the quarry would be unnoticed from the outside and improve air quality because diesel-spewing trucks wouldn’t have to travel as far for aggregate.
Critics say the quarry would worsen truck traffic; cause air, noise and light pollution; spoil a neighboring wilderness preserve; sever a crucial wildlife corridor and hurt tourism.
Unless the anti-quarry bill passes — a vote could come before Sept. 9 — the Riverside County Board of Supervisors will decide whether the quarry is approved. The Planning Commission’s fifth hearing on the project is at 9 a.m. Monday at Rancho Community Church, 30300 Rancho Community Way, Temecula. The panel eventually will vote on a series of findings before supervisors take up the issue.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the “real world.” The tribe has two remedies, depending on the outcome of the vote of county supvrs and the outcome of the Planning Commission’s hg(s) on the issue. They can file suit on the County or file a writ of mandamus on the Planning Commission. We shall await with baited breath on the outcome. The tribe would have to show the environmental destruction to their land or harm to their “archaeological resources” in their complaint or petition :=]
August 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM in reply to: OT:Looming Disaster for the Temecula Area: Liberty Quarry/Mega Mine #720416ParticipantPart of an 8,500-page environmental study paid for by Granite and vetted by Riverside County planners in 2009 concluded the quarry would not harm “tribal archaeological resources” at the site. The tribe disagrees with the study and said county planners ignored their concerns.
Granite wants to build a quarry on at least 135 acres of a 414-acre site sandwiched between Temecula and San Diego County. At its deepest point, the quarry would extend 1,020 feet into the ground. The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall.
For 75 years, Granite would use explosives to blast away a projected 270 million tons of aggregate, tiny rocks used as building materials. Asphalt and concrete also would be made at the site. Most of the aggregate would be carried by truck into San Diego County.
Supporters say the quarry would support high-paying jobs, generate hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes and fees and solve an aggregate shortage that threatens to derail economic recovery efforts. Granite also said the quarry would be unnoticed from the outside and improve air quality because diesel-spewing trucks wouldn’t have to travel as far for aggregate.
Critics say the quarry would worsen truck traffic; cause air, noise and light pollution; spoil a neighboring wilderness preserve; sever a crucial wildlife corridor and hurt tourism.
Unless the anti-quarry bill passes — a vote could come before Sept. 9 — the Riverside County Board of Supervisors will decide whether the quarry is approved. The Planning Commission’s fifth hearing on the project is at 9 a.m. Monday at Rancho Community Church, 30300 Rancho Community Way, Temecula. The panel eventually will vote on a series of findings before supervisors take up the issue.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the “real world.” The tribe has two remedies, depending on the outcome of the vote of county supvrs and the outcome of the Planning Commission’s hg(s) on the issue. They can file suit on the County or file a writ of mandamus on the Planning Commission. We shall await with baited breath on the outcome. The tribe would have to show the environmental destruction to their land or harm to their “archaeological resources” in their complaint or petition :=]
Participantbeselfish, are you aware the SR-125 has been built thru this area since the OP? HOWEVER, it costs nearly $5 per use to travel its entire length (about 9.5 mi). Windingwalk is one of the furthest-out communities in Otay Ranch (abt 22 mi from dtn SD). If you lived there and wanted to skip the toll road, I have heard it takes 35+ minutes to crawl to I-805 during rush hour on Olympic Pkwy or Otay Lakes/Telegraph Cyn Rd (just to enter the fwy). Then you have the stop and go fwy traffic northbound until about 8:20 am. For this reason, it is NOT a convenient area for a northbound “worker bee” to live in.
The vast majority of the communities in Otay Ranch (esp Windingwalk) are built VERY tight and offer little privacy. In addition, some of them have two or more HOA encumbrances and ALL have MR, as you are aware.
IMO, you can get a LOT more “bang for the buck” buying an SFR in 91902, 91910, 91911 and 91914 (Rolling Hills Ranch only) while avoiding MR and minimal or zero HOA dues. In addition, you will likely get a lot between 6000 and 14,000 sf (up to 22,000 for a heavy “fixer”) for the same prices as the asking prices of new construction in the southeastern portion of Otay Ranch.
Participantbeselfish, are you aware the SR-125 has been built thru this area since the OP? HOWEVER, it costs nearly $5 per use to travel its entire length (about 9.5 mi). Windingwalk is one of the furthest-out communities in Otay Ranch (abt 22 mi from dtn SD). If you lived there and wanted to skip the toll road, I have heard it takes 35+ minutes to crawl to I-805 during rush hour on Olympic Pkwy or Otay Lakes/Telegraph Cyn Rd (just to enter the fwy). Then you have the stop and go fwy traffic northbound until about 8:20 am. For this reason, it is NOT a convenient area for a northbound “worker bee” to live in.
The vast majority of the communities in Otay Ranch (esp Windingwalk) are built VERY tight and offer little privacy. In addition, some of them have two or more HOA encumbrances and ALL have MR, as you are aware.
IMO, you can get a LOT more “bang for the buck” buying an SFR in 91902, 91910, 91911 and 91914 (Rolling Hills Ranch only) while avoiding MR and minimal or zero HOA dues. In addition, you will likely get a lot between 6000 and 14,000 sf (up to 22,000 for a heavy “fixer”) for the same prices as the asking prices of new construction in the southeastern portion of Otay Ranch.
Participantbeselfish, are you aware the SR-125 has been built thru this area since the OP? HOWEVER, it costs nearly $5 per use to travel its entire length (about 9.5 mi). Windingwalk is one of the furthest-out communities in Otay Ranch (abt 22 mi from dtn SD). If you lived there and wanted to skip the toll road, I have heard it takes 35+ minutes to crawl to I-805 during rush hour on Olympic Pkwy or Otay Lakes/Telegraph Cyn Rd (just to enter the fwy). Then you have the stop and go fwy traffic northbound until about 8:20 am. For this reason, it is NOT a convenient area for a northbound “worker bee” to live in.
The vast majority of the communities in Otay Ranch (esp Windingwalk) are built VERY tight and offer little privacy. In addition, some of them have two or more HOA encumbrances and ALL have MR, as you are aware.
IMO, you can get a LOT more “bang for the buck” buying an SFR in 91902, 91910, 91911 and 91914 (Rolling Hills Ranch only) while avoiding MR and minimal or zero HOA dues. In addition, you will likely get a lot between 6000 and 14,000 sf (up to 22,000 for a heavy “fixer”) for the same prices as the asking prices of new construction in the southeastern portion of Otay Ranch.
Participantbeselfish, are you aware the SR-125 has been built thru this area since the OP? HOWEVER, it costs nearly $5 per use to travel its entire length (about 9.5 mi). Windingwalk is one of the furthest-out communities in Otay Ranch (abt 22 mi from dtn SD). If you lived there and wanted to skip the toll road, I have heard it takes 35+ minutes to crawl to I-805 during rush hour on Olympic Pkwy or Otay Lakes/Telegraph Cyn Rd (just to enter the fwy). Then you have the stop and go fwy traffic northbound until about 8:20 am. For this reason, it is NOT a convenient area for a northbound “worker bee” to live in.
The vast majority of the communities in Otay Ranch (esp Windingwalk) are built VERY tight and offer little privacy. In addition, some of them have two or more HOA encumbrances and ALL have MR, as you are aware.
IMO, you can get a LOT more “bang for the buck” buying an SFR in 91902, 91910, 91911 and 91914 (Rolling Hills Ranch only) while avoiding MR and minimal or zero HOA dues. In addition, you will likely get a lot between 6000 and 14,000 sf (up to 22,000 for a heavy “fixer”) for the same prices as the asking prices of new construction in the southeastern portion of Otay Ranch.
Participantbeselfish, are you aware the SR-125 has been built thru this area since the OP? HOWEVER, it costs nearly $5 per use to travel its entire length (about 9.5 mi). Windingwalk is one of the furthest-out communities in Otay Ranch (abt 22 mi from dtn SD). If you lived there and wanted to skip the toll road, I have heard it takes 35+ minutes to crawl to I-805 during rush hour on Olympic Pkwy or Otay Lakes/Telegraph Cyn Rd (just to enter the fwy). Then you have the stop and go fwy traffic northbound until about 8:20 am. For this reason, it is NOT a convenient area for a northbound “worker bee” to live in.
The vast majority of the communities in Otay Ranch (esp Windingwalk) are built VERY tight and offer little privacy. In addition, some of them have two or more HOA encumbrances and ALL have MR, as you are aware.
IMO, you can get a LOT more “bang for the buck” buying an SFR in 91902, 91910, 91911 and 91914 (Rolling Hills Ranch only) while avoiding MR and minimal or zero HOA dues. In addition, you will likely get a lot between 6000 and 14,000 sf (up to 22,000 for a heavy “fixer”) for the same prices as the asking prices of new construction in the southeastern portion of Otay Ranch.
Participantbeselfish, to answer your question on where things are heading, all current signs still point downward. Although distressed property in 91914 and 91915 sells quickly after it is listed, REO lenders are in collusion with each other to “trickle out” one or two of the same or “mirror-image” models on the market at any one time, so as to hopefully create a “bidding war” among buyers and thus get a higher price than what the market would bear if all the distressed inventory was dumped on the market at once.
There is still a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of “shadow inventory” in various stages of default/REO there which has yet to be marketed. I don’t think prices will completely “shake out” and stabilize in those areas (ALL built since 2000) until at least 2014.
Participantbeselfish, to answer your question on where things are heading, all current signs still point downward. Although distressed property in 91914 and 91915 sells quickly after it is listed, REO lenders are in collusion with each other to “trickle out” one or two of the same or “mirror-image” models on the market at any one time, so as to hopefully create a “bidding war” among buyers and thus get a higher price than what the market would bear if all the distressed inventory was dumped on the market at once.
There is still a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of “shadow inventory” in various stages of default/REO there which has yet to be marketed. I don’t think prices will completely “shake out” and stabilize in those areas (ALL built since 2000) until at least 2014.
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